WonderMan has me looking back on WandaVision and...

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WonderMan benefitted so much by being its own self-contained show. The show stands tall by showing life in the MCU from the perspective of a powered civilian. We need more MCU stuff like this, not putting action and powers on blast and instead letting the characterization shine. That's something I feel like WandaVision did for the most part up until the end.

Personally, I feel WandaVisions's conclusion committed too hard to the formula of having a big battle and multiple setups for other characters and projects, not to mention the badly executed Pietro character. WonderMan actually utilizes a familiar character in a meaningful way. Trevor is not only crucial for Simons development but we also see how Trevor reconciles with his own past and current desires. He manages to be his own character instead of a boner joke. Wanda's ending in the show in my opinion would've been better if there wasn't a large scale hero vs villain battle. While S.W.O.R.D was external threat, her main struggle throughout the show was internal. Her final battle should have always just been the realization of her actions and her act of letting go of her sitcom family. The fight with Agatha dulls it imo.

WonderMan's conclusion didn't feel the need to set up any major events or future projects, it simply concluded. Not to say of course that this is the last we'll see of Simon and Trevor, I just mean the show is all the more satisfying when an ending feels definitive. I'd love more mcu content with identity at the focus

btw i really loved both shows i just felt like ranting for a bit. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

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Commentaires

HyunStoned2026-01-29 08:24

Very good take on WandaVision

OurFriendSteve2026-01-29 08:25

Just bingewatched Wonderman as I write this. Truly enjoyed the characterization as you said. Gives me hope for Spiderman Brand New Day directed by the same guy who did this show.

the-tominatrix2026-01-29 10:11

I think he only directed the first ep but he’s producer!

sentient_luggage2026-01-29 10:50

First two, and he's THE EP on all of it. The directors all did fantastic work but this is Destin Daniel Cretton's show.

the-tominatrix2026-01-29 10:51

Damnit I forgot an ep. Do you know which one?

sentient_luggage2026-01-29 10:53

As I said, first two.

SpaceCaboose2026-01-30 02:12

It’s common for the director of the first episode (I know he did the first 2) to get an EP credit for the entire run of the show, and EP is often times just a title, so that in itself isn’t saying a whole lot..

With that said, Destin did co-create the show too, so he actually did have a huge hand in it.

flickuppercut2026-01-29 19:21

Funny DDC is a dude I really root for. He already has a classic up his sleeve with *Short Term 12* and I think it's easy to look at his work with Marvel as a late-career/mid-life cash grab but his Marvel stuff has so much heart and social consciousness that I can't help but be happy that he found himself in this position.

OurFriendSteve2026-01-29 19:43

I agree with you!!!! Shang Chi was really good.

Upper-Dig93112026-01-29 20:16

He also directed Shang-Chi so I was never worried. He truly is amazing.

pennygirl1082026-01-29 08:27

I agree with your analysis. I feel like wandavision knew it fell apart at the end as the spin off AAA is much more self contained and deals with the leads emotional and relationship arcs in much more of a vacuum. I agree with you that big spectacle battles like wandavision relied on weaken the personal story and that introducing too many characters like wandavision did and than under developing them leads to an unsatisfying experience as a viewer. The mcu creating AAA and wonderman is an acknowledgment that they see the errors too and are trying to tell stronger stories.

cocopopped2026-01-29 08:57

Yep it was disappointing WandaVision descended into the usual everyone flying around shooting beams and screaming at each other, deserved a better ending and it would've been fine to be a bit more low key.

And to reveal mephisto

Peanut_Butter_Toast2026-01-29 09:09

I don't understand why people have a problem with the flashy final battle. There's still plenty of screen time devoted to the internal emotional struggle. Having Wanda not get any action during her only starring role would've been a shame.

Only thing I'd ditch is Monica Rambeau getting superpowers, that was an unnecessary complicating factor and just felt kinda weird and random.

BatmanForever232026-01-29 15:56

>Only thing I'd ditch is Monica Rambeau getting superpowers, that was an unnecessary complicating factor and just felt kinda weird and random.

OP literally is criticising this type of thing when they say

>Personally, I feel WandaVisions's conclusion committed too hard to the formula of having a big battle and *multiple setups for other characters and projects.*

NoNoNotorious852026-01-29 16:53

Are you just summarizing what OP said just because or are you criticizing the responder as if they didn’t read properly?

The flashy big battle and multiple setups are two different things. Hence, why they defended the flashy battle but criticized the multiple setups aspect.

JonGorga2026-01-29 19:26

Agreed. I think Monica suddenly and inexplicably getting powers was very awkward and the scene at the end that sets up “The Marvels” is the single big mistake that keeps “WandaVision” out of my personal list of top 10 best TV shows ever made.

The big final battle doesn’t bother me at all. Satisfying and logical conclusion to the story.

Peanut_Butter_Toast2026-01-29 20:29

And that set up didn't even end up helping The Marvels, just a complete waste all around.

RihoSucks2026-01-29 19:53

I dont agree. You got this show thats a meditation on grief and loss and "look out lasers and punches and cgi destruction!" just feels like they didn't have the guts not to do the "normal" superhero 3rd act routine. It was a tired trope even before the d+ shows. The last episode is honestly what keeps wandavision out of my top tier of d+ shows

Sylar_Lives2026-01-29 19:57

Dude it’s Marvel. If you’re tired of flashy battles, you’re tired of something inherent to the formula. If you want less of that take a break and watch a different genre for a while.

RihoSucks2026-01-29 20:01

Hard disagree. Plenty of projects haven't used that formula and were better for it. Loki s1 & 2, Dr strange, thunderbolts, she-hulk, havent finished it yet but sounds like wonder man.

It should be done when it makes sense narratively and thematically. It made no sense in wandavision

Sylar_Lives2026-01-29 20:06

I think it made perfect sense. They set up her clash with Agatha perfectly throughout. Then having two versions of Vision face off was just excellent.

Peanut_Butter_Toast2026-01-29 20:20

Yeah Agatha was a huge part of the story with a conflicting interest with Wanda that needed to be resolved. And the Vision battle was a perfect illustration of Wanda's fake reality clashing against the actual reality of what happened to Vision. Just because there was a tonal shift doesn't mean it didn't make sense narratively or thematically.

Sylar_Lives2026-01-29 20:25

It is still a Marvel story, and the way they handled the ending did nothing to derail or disservice the story as y’all claim. If anything the story only enhanced the final battle.

nessfalco2026-01-30 04:01

It's not inherent at all. Comics avoid it all the time, and wonder man shows that can you make a good superhero show without that kind of ending.

There are also other ways to handle "battles" that aren't literally shooting red and purple beams.

Sylar_Lives2026-01-29 19:56

I agree. This is Marvel. Some things should just come to be expected.

Calackyo2026-01-29 09:47

Using a new thing as an example to put down something I enjoy is a great way to get me to never watch the new thing.

Anime-Takes2026-01-29 14:08

But why? Even if you like the old thing why does it being compared to the new thing make you not want to watch the new thing? It doesn’t affect the old thing if you watch the new thing

Calackyo2026-01-29 14:13

It's not based on logic so I can't explain it. It's based on emotions which play a big part in enjoying art.

Razatiger2026-01-29 21:22

Brother, if you feel that way, you may need a mental evaluation. He gave his fair and honest take about why he believe one show was superior to the other.

It should be up to you to watch both and come to a conclusion for yourself. You may wholeheartedly disagree, and thats fine, but you may also end up agreeing with him.

Calackyo2026-01-29 21:45

I'd argue that the entire point of engaging with art is that it is going to elicit emotions. And emotions are often in conflict with logic.

vinceburrito2026-01-29 09:54

I agree with a lot of what you wrote but I would have liked some sort of confrontation in the final episode. Walking in the front door and then just punching a hole in the ceiling and flying away felt too simple. I’m not saying there needed to be a big fight, but maybe something like a conversation between the recurring dodc guy and Simon, where simon offers his help as a superhero in exchange for Trevor’s freedom.

the-tominatrix2026-01-29 10:11

I really really hope Visionquest connects Agatha, Wandavision, and WM.

Memester9992026-01-29 10:17

I don’t think the issue is having big battles, it’s have ***BAD*** big battles. There are good ways to do big battles as finales, it’s just that Marvel shows just tacked them on as if they were checking a box off instead of actually being incorporated into what the show had been doing up to that point. It’s a show about her filtering her emotional trauma through these TV/time period tropes and somehow that’s essentially not used at all in the finale? Instead it’s mostly energy beams and mid air battles in the town square.

Big battles are not the issue, it’s laziness and/or doing something because they thought they had to instead of because they had a good idea as to why it happened.

nilzoroda2026-01-29 12:26

I would go further and say it's not a problem even to do "homework" watching al the projects but have to do/watch "BAD homework" where after all these years still not clear if timeline and multiverse are the same thing or not because the story has been poorly written.

SirFlibble2026-01-29 10:17

This is exactly what the TV shows should be. Side stories. Not important to 'the story' but still stories which should be told but it shouldn't stop a character like Simon showing up in a movie, just not leading it (because I think we can safely say that doesn't seem to work).

People will still complain about having to watch everything though.

electriclightthemoon2026-01-29 17:09

I do like seeing some references to the wider universe but it doesn’t take away from the show.

NeptuneCA2026-01-29 22:56

Exactly. I’m glad Marvel (or Disney or both) has finally come around to see that the movie/tv split was actually a GOOD thing. Although I think things introduced in tv shows can and should eventually appear in movies, I also definitely think movies should be essential and tv should be supplemental. The movies should set the pace and the shows should work within that framework.

The Marvel Studios-only era almost had that backwards, with most of the throughlines happening in the shows and most of the movies being standalone.

mklaus19842026-01-29 10:41

I think that both are fine.

One issue with this argument is that WandaVision is meant to be tied into the MCU as the trilogy with Agatha All Along and VisionQuest is meant to set up Scarlet Witch, Wiccan and Speed, and White Vision/Vision for other productions... the issue here is of course the delays.

Not only is Doomsday releasing much later than the Kang Dynasty story was supposed to be (May 2025) but VisionQuest was always supposed to come out before and Young Avengers (with Wiccan and Speed) was rumored to also come out before that.

I really liked that the Spotlight(!) Wonderman did not follow the formula of a superhero movie... because it is the origin story of the supervillain Wonderman. Instead of working for Zemo he is seemingly working qith the Mandarin if he ever is used or mentioned in another story.

Penguigo2026-01-29 16:32

On the other hand, She-Hulk was about characterization first and explicitly avoided a big CGI battle at the end, *and people fucking hated it.* It was just a story about a lawyer who got powers and wanted to still be a lawyer-first.

So I don't think it's a bulletproof concept. It's tricky for Marvel to figure out what people want right now. Fwiw I enjoyed She-Hulk but people still rage about it to this day.

udat422026-01-29 17:10

I have liked several of the MCU tv shows, but She Hulk remains the only one I’ve watched twice.

Living-Eye28692026-01-29 16:38

For me, this is just 100% wrong. Everything we've gotten since Endgame has been its own self contained story, to the huge detriment to the health of the MCU.

The one thing that truly elevated the Marvel movies was the interconnectedness, the execution of how they told a massive, and I mean massive story. The moment they started making movies that sit outside that, and then committed to that, they lowered their own stock from standout to run of the mill stories.

That doesn't mean Wonder Man wasnt a good watch, but trying to make this an Andor and saying oh, everything needs to be like this now will not only be damaging, buts its borderline insane. Again for the past 6 years, every single Marvel movie or show has been a standalone situation. The biggest crossover has been DD in She-Hulk and Ghost in Thunderbolts.

What we need is stories of the quality of Wonder Man, but with a connectedness that is just beyond, here is an actor from a previous project.

For Example: >!In Wonder Man, at the end because of Trevor's arrest, the DoDC created a new prison to hold Enhanaced Individuals and/or Extreme Threats. In phases 1-3, this would have been a large subplot, we get world building for the DoDC, there'd be an impact on other movies, maybe a side character was also captured, maybe we get a whole movie raiding that prison, anything. But now, the chances of that plot point being touched again in any meaningful way in the next 3 years, slim to definitely not. And thats what causes the apathy to the projects, why should I watch Wonder Man, when I dont need to see Wonder Man to understand the next movie I'll tell myself I dont need to see because it has no larger impact!<

I'd love to be wrong, and have this have some impact on Brand New Day, but unlikely, and we know it won't come into play in Doomsday, as no other people were shown to be in the prison, and Doomsday is a largely multiversal and Doom focus.

The MCU was only good because of the connected aspect. We shouldn't sacrifice good writing to have a fun interconnected COMICBOOK story. But having a flashy power battle or a large story arc shouldn't negate having a project be well written.

For me, Wonder Man is a solid 7. It'd be higher if there was some larger plot that they had been doing and this was another solid addition to that. But because it isnt and its just a comoc book show on its own, it was slow but well acted, and had 1 episode that was so slow I completely checked out for 5 minutes, it didnt have enough powers for my taste. Its just any other slice of life drama with occasional explosions, but those can happen in normal people sitcoms.

NeptuneCA2026-01-29 23:22

Your whole description of the DoDC’s prison is wrong. For one thing, you act like their having a prison is new information, when seeing it is actually the culmination of a running subplot through Shang-Chi, Ms. Marvel, and She-Hulk.

But more importantly, we actually have a prison in The Infinity Saga that we can compare this prison to: The Raft. Was the Raft a large subplot? Did it have an impact on a lot of movies? Did we get cameos of any previous characters showing up in the Raft? Did we get a whole movie about breaking in or out? No. The Raft appeared exactly once in phases 1-3: in Civil War, where we never hear about its construction or anything and despite being a large facility it seems to have about five cells, and despite supposedly being impenetrable, people break out so easily it’s not even worth showing. And then outside of a reference in Jessica Jones, it doesn’t appear again until FatWS.

This is true of lot of things in the first saga. The events of Iron Man 2 have never been mentioned again. The events of The Incredible Hulk, despite getting mentions here and there, weren’t properly followed up until Shang-Chi and beyond. The Mandarin is never mentioned until Shang-Chi. The Guardians movies are obviously self-contained. The Convergence doesn’t have any impact on anybody else. In fact, I don’t recall any of the Phase 2 movies referencing each other.

The main difference between the first saga and the second saga is that the first saga had periodic Avengers movies that everything could flow into and out of. It also had Agents of SHIELD running alongside everything and making references to all the movies. Those both made it feel more connected than it really was.

TheYauCometh2026-01-30 06:03

🔥

Fictionj2026-01-29 17:20

I loved Wonder Man, it had great story and great characters. Most of all I’m just glad that >! Baby’s Day Out !< is MCU cannon now.

SimonShepherd2026-01-29 18:03

I mean Wanda is still mainly a superhero.

If Simon debutted and operated as the superhero Wonder Man for a while before getting his own show, it won't be like anything we actually get.

SnooTomatoes47342026-01-29 18:18

Agreed. Awesome summary 👏

[deleted]2026-01-29 20:03

Is it even nice?

-Altephor-2026-01-29 20:15

It's the problem with all Marvel movies. They all follow the same formula.

They were *supposed* to be in different genres. Hulk is supposed to be a 'monster/horror' film. It isn't, it's an action superhero movie. Ant Man is supposed to be a 'heist' movie. It isn't, it's an action superhero movie. Thor is supposed to be a 'shakespearian style drama'. It isn't, it's an action superhero movie. The Winter Soldier actually got pretty close to being a 'spy thriller'... but... they couldn't resist turning it into an action superhero movie at the end.

The shows are actually usually the worst offender because it *should* be easy to keep them small-scaled and character driven but Marvel ***always*** needs to include some stupid action set piece that looks like garbage on a tv (granted, expensive tv) budget.

Grayx_28872026-01-29 20:56

In other words, **"This is what a Disney+ Marvel TV show should have been."**

TheYauCometh2026-01-29 21:19

👍🏿

oorza2026-01-29 23:59

> Her final battle should have always just been the realization of her actions, her act of letting go of her sitcom family and returning to reality.

Did you watch the same show I did? This literally does not happen in the show.

Wanda is _violently forced_ to free Westview, which she does without showing an ounce of remorse, and then she fucks off out of dodge to read The Darkhold in secret. She never returned to reality, reconciled with her conscience (let alone any victims or Vision), or showed the audience one iota of redemption. It's really astonishing that we're this many years after the show and people are still projecting what they want to have seen onto it, rather than what's actually there. Nothing Wanda does by the end of WandaVision has moved her anywhere closer to returning to being a good person, she just gets caught with her hand in the cookie jar and runs away.

You have to have a big giant battle in this finale, or you change the character arc, and then she doesn't end the show a supervillain like she did - even without the epilogue teaser. She's a supervillain that's sympathetic and easy to empathize with despite being without remorse or regret, but she's nowhere close to a good person, let alone a superhero. This arc you describe literally did not happen, and it's embarrassing that media literacy is so low this keeps getting repeated. The ending was a _little_ subtle, sure, but damn.

It was and remains genuinely shocking to me that people think the way she was treated in MoM didn't logically follow the show, because it assuredly did.