They never showed Bucky void image. What if it wasn't Winter Soldier time but serving in WW2
something always stuck out to me that Bucky got the serum and survived versus everybody else Zola was testing it on. what if Bucky did something in the war that made him worthy of surviving this serum.
maybe during his time and the 107th, he saw some horrors of the war and pulled a saving Private Ryan. staying behind to defend a town against Hydra by himself and allowing the town to flee while he held them off although bthey capture him.
what if Thunderbolts brings up the memory of this time in the war that's been buried underneath the Winter soldier times.
maybe during his time and the 107th, he saw some horrors of the war and pulled a saving Private Ryan. staying behind to defend a town against Hydra by himself and allowing the town to flee while he held them off although bthey capture him.
what if Thunderbolts brings up the memory of this time in the war that's been buried underneath the Winter soldier times.
Commentaires
Unfortunately, the movie was too focused on Yelena to give anyone more than the bare minimum, and Bucky was very far from the wrtiers' minds.
u/silverBruise_32 i dont think we needed to see it actually, Bucky's part in the film is as he guy whose gone through his arc of acceptance and "redemption" and he's helping the rest of them. He's the Gandalf for their fellowship. His speech you can either live with it forever, or you can do something about it -- he knows what its like for all of them. and yes Yelena was the pov character, just like star-lord was for the guardians films (and then rocket was in Vol. 3) and Tony was in the avengers films. Lots of team films do this.
In that specific scene? Well, if they'd been interested, there's plenty of Bucky's past to choose from. Decades as the Winter Soldier certainly would have given him fodder for bad memories. In the movie, as a whole? Not a damn thing, not since the first leaks came out, and described the movie as a spiritual successor to Black Widow (which it ended up being)
they wouldnt put jake schrier on the god damn X-Men if they weren't happy with Thunderbolts.
Thank thor you're not a producer making these decisions. You'd be exactly like david zaslav, prioritizing short term profit before anything else.
They very much did move the needle for F4. They got stellar reviews and made a good profit, which indicates people actually care about them.
They can recognize that Shrier did a good job, and that they can keep working with him, and that this particular IP isn't profitable.
That's what all executives do, genius. Except Feige, who spent years trying to convince the audiences to love the characters he does. And even he had the sense to move away from that
It made a small profit, and landed on streaming with a thud. Thunderbolts had no impact on any of that.
Edit: awww, little loser blocked me because he couldn't think of anything to say. Have fun in your little bubble!
You dont hand someone the keys to one of your most important ips if that person previously failed at something else.
No a GOOD executive thinks long term. Cus you're not just making a single film. This short term profit bullshit is the type of thinking that killed the dceu, all you care about is how much can i make right now, not how much could we make in 5 years if we take a small hit now. Could triple the profits and make something people actually have confidence in.
A thunderbolts sequel would now be far more likely to make a huge profit. why? Becuase people were raving about the first one. There's immense confidence in the ip, the characters and the director, theyre going to show up.
Going off your logic we'd never get a new wolverine movie after 2009 much less a deadpool trilogy and yet...
Would it be cool to see his void? sure. Could it oh i dont know screwed up the pacing of an otherwise perfectly paced film? Yea probably. But noo lets just forego every other element that makes a great film because we absolutely need to see every single character's void vision, regardless of if it actually impacts the plot or not.
If you think that movie was "perfectly paced" , you need to watch more movies. The third act was a bloated mess. If we had time for the minutiae of Yelena's vision, we could have gotten more than a glimpse of the others'. But that wasn't the point
Excuse you, ive seen many movies and yea it was as perfectly paced as a film could be. Didnt drag on for pointless extra scenes that drag the story along, and didnt rush things along either.
Not enough, apparently, because you still can't spot a typical Marvel CGI-ladden third act.
Oh look everyone, the king of filmmaking is here to teach us. CGI = bad grrr. Shut the hell up.
I agree with Silver on this one. Marvel never gave Bucky an arc. Just the odd out of context clip.
Maybe the time in between when he fell and then was picked up by Hydra leading up to it too.
I didn't get the impression that it was trying to say that at all.
Plus there were definately people in fandom who got mad because Bucky still had mental health issues in Thunderbolts. Their basis was literally he shouldn't still be like that because Sam "fixed" him already.
I thought Bucky's sarcasm implied that he definitely saw some heinous stuff that affected him, but him being the only one of the team who'd actually had therapy before made him better equipped to work through it *despite* it affecting him.
And honestly? A lot of us would like to have seen more acknowledgement that Bucky wasn't in control and wasn't to blame because the narrative framing and way things are described often implies the opposite.
And they werent saying it was immoral what he was doing, its just saying that it wont help with his guilt. what will help, trying to help those who were hurt. Like an old man whose son was killed because of the winter soldier. Giving that man the closure he needed.
Just because a person feels guilty it doesn't folllow that they have to take responsibiliy or blame for something they were forced to do. A good example is Yelena: she feels guilty about what the Red Room made her do, but I don't see anyone suggesting she should personally take the blame for all of Dreykov's crimes and what he did to all the other girls who were made into Widows.
Yet with Bucky, his feeling gulty is taken as a reason why he shoulld personally shoulder the blame for everything HYDRA did to everyone ever (and act like he was doing it willingly...)
>the films are very aware that he wasnt in control of his actions,
The movies are, yes, but The Falcon and the Winter Soldier tried to retcon that. It framkes everything to look like Bucky was in control and was consciouslly choosing to seve HYDRA willingly. Its why many fans of the show think Bucky was a barely reformed villian who served evil willingly, and are so opposed to the idea he was actually a victim.
>And they werent saying it was immoral what he was doing, its just saying that it wont help with his guilt. what will help, trying to help those who were hurt. Like an old man whose son was killed because of the winter soldier. Giving that man the closure he needed.
Sam also said the amends wasn't to help Bucky though. "You've go to those people and say sorry because you think it will make you feel better, but you gotta make them feel better" and all that being of service silliness.
That whole scene had atrocious and hamfisted writing to be honest. Its like they were trying to write something that sounded profound and ended up sounding very stupid when you think about it for even 30 seconds. It requires a crazy amount of reinterpration to make it make sense.
Whether its the best thing to do is irrelevant thats character.
Except hes right. Cool you feel better how about all the people who are still suffering 1 way or another because of what you were forced to do. Giving someone closure is such a small act to help them. Anyone can punch out a hydra goon, you can help these people.
No, its really not. Yelena helped other people who had been victimized like her- and she didn't start doing that until after they'd dealt with Dreykov which was logical.
The person who was actually fixing damage was Melina because she created the mind control serum in the first place. If we applied TFatWS reasoning to Black Widow, then , Yelena would be taking the blame for enslaving the other widows whilst Dreykov and Melina got off Scot free.
>Whether its the best thing to do is irrelevant thats character.
Its relevant. We don't have to accept or endorse victim- blaming as good just because the show told us so.
>Except hes right. Cool you feel better how about all the people who are still suffering 1 way or another because of what you were forced to do. Giving someone closure is such a small act to help them.
What would also be a small act to help somone would be Sam acknowleding Bucky was a victim. It wasn't *actually* necessary to pretend he was doing it willingly and reinforce his self hatred and blame.
Sam does that because he thinks Bucky chose to be Winter Soldier. Well possibly that and Bucky is a more convenint scapegoat/punchbag for what was done to people like Isaiah then US government which he himself works for.
Its relevant and revealing that Sam dosesn't recognize how much Bucky **himself** is suffering. Instead he treats him like a dangerous monster/a gullty criminal.
>Anyone can punch out a hydra goon, you can help these people.
I mean sure, that would make sense if Sam was telling Bucky to simply help people- but he's not. As above. he's victim-blaming him and expecting him to take responsibility for \*everything\* HYDRA including things he wasn't invollved in.
Instead of like... the HYDRA Operatives who are stilll free and walking the streets. And telling him to potentially "make amends" to the very people who weaponized him in the first place. Its disturbing and messed up- and it ts not conductive to helping someone in Bucky's situation unless you want to retraumatize them. Maybe Sam did?