Just Watched Marvel Zombies and It Made me Realize How Much Fun a Phase 4 Avengers Movie Would Have Been

Just as the title says. The show itself wasn't amazing, but I really enjoyed watching it. Why? Because it's what we were really missing in phase 4: The new characters coming together, interacting with some of the old characters, and showing us how a Phase 4 Avengers Movie would have been successful. At the end I got sad that we'll never get that. Yeah, some of these characters will be in Doomsday and/or Secret Wars. But those have such a huge cast that it just won't be the same, and they probably are not going to focus on the Phase 4 characters. Idk, I just feel like it showed what we were really missing out on.

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CanCalyx2026-01-21 04:36

Yeah, really feels like an artifact of a different timeline where Phase 4 wasn't thrown off by Covid, Strikes, and Disney+ over-production. I wish we'd gotten a proper cross-over for some of these characters. Honestly, going into Doomsday with a real Avengers team we actually enjoyed together would make the dread more palpable (I like the Thunderbolts\*, but they should've appeared to close out Phase 4, too - with a Phase 5 where two friendly but rival Avengers teams were doing their own thing). Ah, well.

GillGruntFan532026-01-21 05:34

The problem is that this was always Marvels plan: Avengers films now saved for saga enders, the overarching plot even being about the lack of an Avengers team, the Young Avengers forming in Secret Wars, etc.

The plan just sucked and missed the appeal of the MCU being the crossovers (no surprise that one of the parts of Gunn’s DC plan, modeled after what worked and what didn’t at Marvel, is that every project has a crossover)

eagc72026-01-21 06:28

I do believe a good alternative could had been to build towards other teams if they don't want an Avengers movie every phase anymore.

Like i have maintained that Thunderbolts could've been the end of Phase 4, cause if you think about it, all the build up to the film was made in Phase 4, Phase 5 had no set up for the film other than saying that Bucky is becoming a congressman. while Phase 5 could've had Champions, lets just move VisionQuest to Phase 5 and we got a good roster to go

CaptHayfever2026-01-21 15:57

> The plan just sucked and missed the appeal of the MCU being the crossovers

There's crossovers in No Way Home, Multiverse of Madness, Love & Thunder, She-Hulk, Quantumania, The Marvels, Deadpool & Wolverine, Thunderbolts, and What If/Zombies. Wong is all over phase 4. Next week, Trevor Slattery makes his 4th appearance and Agent Cleary his 3rd. >!Punisher & Hulk!< are going to be in Brave New World.

[deleted]2026-01-21 23:24

[deleted]

CaptHayfever2026-01-21 23:42

Two issues there:

1. Quality =/= existence, & I'm tired of people copy-pasting the same talking points that aren't true over & over again because they can't be bothered to say what they actually mean.
2. The fandom isn't a monolith, & a smaller Avengers film like a lot of people wanted would've pissed off a lot of other people too.

kwickedbonesc2026-01-22 05:06

If they wanted avengers films to end the saga, that’s fine I get that. But it was a mistake to have there be no avengers at all for 2 whole phases.

Some projects/movies, it doesn’t make sense to have an avengers mention. But some movies, just a mentioning akin to the references in homecoming is perfect. Let us know they’re still a thing and operating. The avengers don’t have to be as involved in solo projects, like they were in civil war, but that shouldn’t be off the table.

It is a wider universe, right? Well the avengers are a great way to keep universe cohesion together without too much effort. And at the end of the day, in the mutant saga- the same should be said for teams like the fantastic four or the x-men.

eagc72026-01-21 06:24

Yeah as GillGruntFan53 pointed out, Avengers was always gonna be the end of the saga, even without COVID, the strikes, etc, we wouldn't had gotten Avengers at the end of Phase 4. we would've gotten 5 and 6 sooner yes, but not per phase

mtdewisfortweakers2026-01-21 08:16

I’m not saying we would have, just that, imo, we should have

SirFlibble2026-01-21 04:49

An unpopular opinion (I've been reading Avengers comics for 40 years so I'm an old fan). I wish the Avengers would go back to being about a team of heroes and not "team up a bunch of people".

I think the Marvel brand is strong enough to have just done 'Marvel's Doomsday' or 'Marvel's Secret Wars' rather than labelling them as Avengers movies.

This would allow them to just have Avengers movies like 1 and 2 more regularly featuring a core team (with some additions from newer movies if it works).

Phase 4 or 5 would have been perfect for a Gathers movie. Where Avengers (some known some not) from the multiverse from worlds where the Avengers had a hand in the destruction of their earths, get together to destroy Avengers teams from across the multiverse.

mtdewisfortweakers2026-01-21 04:51

To me they’re basically just the Summer Crossovers of comics. The Avengers name just carries weight, and so they use that. I don’t really have an issue with it.

labbla2026-01-21 05:13

The new Phase 4 & 5 characters deserved some sort of team up movie only focused on them. I think having everyone interacting and working together would have really helped these last two phases settle in much better. Everything just feels so scattered. And it sucks so many old characters will be taking up time in Doomsday. Marvel really fumbled crossovers these last few years.

Bigbigbigrock2026-01-21 05:46

I think that's in part what Secret Wars is for. Doomsday seems to be the big send-off for older legacy characters, I think Doomsday will be about the new legacy characters taking their turn in the sun while the world around them is fucked.

mtdewisfortweakers2026-01-21 06:00

Secret Wars, based off of both the comics, is likely going to have even more characters than Doomsday. And if they’re putting RDJ and Steve and all them into Doomsday, you bet they’ll be in Secret Wars as well. It’s all about marketing at this point. I hope SW focuses on our new characters, but I find that unlikely. Particularly because Battleworld will likely be made up of a bunch of different universes cobbled together, like in the Hickman SW.

Bigbigbigrock2026-01-21 06:03

I think it depends, the concept art and story notes they've left open to me points to Secret Wars adapting some of Children's Crusade which is a Young Avengers story. I don't doubt you, I just also can't imagine they blow their wad even bigger on Secret Wars when Doomsday already feels like it could have too much in it. But I'm happy to be wrong if it turns out to be a great story.

mtdewisfortweakers2026-01-21 06:09

I do know that they let people publish the concept are because they said it was an old edition of the movie, and that when they were originally doing Kang’s Dynasty the young avengers were going to be in it. I hope they are, cause the 2005 YA is what got me into comics, but seeing as they really want to nostalgia bait audiences with old characters and other universes, I’m worried that won’t be the case. Especially given the comic it is based off of.

Bigbigbigrock2026-01-21 06:18

YA 05 was my first comic too! Who's your favorite member?

I can understand that, though I will say I'd be surprised if Kamala, Kate, and Cassie aren't in it. Scott is death flagged to hell, and there's no shot they won't have an emotional goodbye if they do plan to kill Scott. We know Kamala and Kate are planning to pick Cassie up for their team. Seems an easy cameo to fit the parents and children theme the movie is going for. Scott does his "I'll tell you all about it when I get back" scene with Cassie and we see her with the others being sidelined as the adults handle the issue and fail. It just makes sense to me, plus all the random leaks and rumors and such that add onto that thought.

mtdewisfortweakers2026-01-21 08:18

Okay I know this is Cliche…but it’s Billy. I like Kate a lot too, though my love for her grew after Hawkeye 2012 and West Coast Avengers. I liked Eli’s arc and got sad that they just cast him out. I know he was in the recent SamCap comic, but not a lot. Cassie has stuttered recently too. But, yeah, Wiccan and Hawkeye. Yours?

Bigbigbigrock2026-01-21 08:26

I mean I'd hardly say it's cliche, Billy got a lot of attention across both volumes and it did a lot to really flesh him out! I think he's great, even has his own solo now which is exciting.

I like Cassie best, both cause size changing is a cool power and cause I like her whole gremlin with a good heart and little self control vibe. She for sure stuttered, but she has some good stuff in Spencer's Astonishing run and Zeb Wells 2020 mini. Kate for sure is my number two pick, both cause she's a great best friend and cause Fraction knocked it out of the park with his run, and I just finished YA Vol 2 so I can finally start Kate's solo soon. Eli I was happy to see back in Sam's run, I like the lesser developed members. Whenever they get a new run I'm hoping the focus is on Cassie, Tommy, and Eli to get them moving more to catch up with the others in development. Especially Cass, who needs some attention to fix the way she's been kinda left behind narratively.

I'm hoping this year gives a new run, the new Avengers event this summer could be an interesting time to get the team together given they've been setting them up and putting them back together for a few years now.

mtdewisfortweakers2026-01-21 10:30

Apparently we’re almost had a new YA last year for the 20th anniversary, but it never worked out. Highly unfortunate, since they’ve been hinting at a new YA since December of 2018. That one hinted at a new group of young avengers mentored by Kate and Cassie, which I wouldn’t be opposed to. The young avengers aren’t really young anymore.

I read Kate’s solo book, I thought it was decent.MUCH better than the most recent America Chavez book, which is an anathema that of like to forget, except it’s mentioned in Kate’s solo.

Fingers crossed these characters all come back for some more development. Always happy to meet another YA fan.

Bigbigbigrock2026-01-21 10:45

I know Celbulski was talking about a new YA run, and the writer for Supergirl's current run said she was working on it til it got shelved. I assume something is coming this year or next to try and land with the movies which I think they're in. I just wonder if they use Kamala as a guest character. Also had no idea there was hints for a new team with Kate and Cassie in the leader and second in charge spots, what run was that? I know Cassie mentions being left out of the WCA in Wells run. And that's part of my frustration with her current situation, she's still 15, she's basically young enough to be one of the New Champions! It's just really weird when everyone else is drinking and hooking up that she's just there. But I'm sure that'll get addressed, since it is a sore thumb to correct.

I've heard sadly that America's solo runs are bad vs her team stories. I really liked her on YA Vol 2, and the trio are very fun as a group.

And same! I feel the team's been gaining some support by nature of having more time on the board and some exposure through the films and such. It's been awesome to fall into the team and get into comics. I'm most curious to see if 2029 does anything for the Lang's 50th anniversary.

Ordinary-Chain-80472026-01-21 06:55

Hear me out phase 4 should’ve been Thunderbolts then phase 5 we get Avengers Secret Invasion

ChaoticCaptain1772026-01-21 07:12

Phase 4 definitely needed an avengers movie

Emergency-Baby5112026-01-21 09:47

I hope these newer characters have more time to shine in Doomsday and don't get sidelined too much. Not sure if Moon Knight's in there, would be cool to see him show up again.

In my honest opinion, we should've already had an Avengers movie with the new characters. We should've already had these characters meet and interact with each other

BiddyKing2026-01-21 11:15

Yep. We should have got an Avengers film at the end of Phase 4 and another one at the end of Phase 5 and then had Doomsday + Secret Wars end of Phase 6. I don’t even understand the purpose in defining these post-Endgame ‘phases’ if they didn’t each end with a big team up Avengers film. It’s the thing that made the MCU special in the first place and the fact they omitted them for so long devalued the whole project. It was the main thing that made the MCU special and something no other film studio has been able to sustainably replicate

mtdewisfortweakers2026-01-21 11:28

The only one I kind of understand is Phase 5 ending with Thunderbolts (which I really liked), but they should have named it New Avengers from the start and toyed with the script a bit. At least it was a tan up, and it was a really good film. It’s unfortunate it didn’t do well, but I swear if it was named New Avengers from the beginning and added in more than Bucky it would’ve done really well.

BiddyKing2026-01-21 11:38

True, but still it’s just kind of like Thunderbolts would’ve made more sense at the end of Phase 4 since nearly all its pieces were set up in that phase the only exception being Bucky’s Cap 4 cameo (but maybe that could’ve worked better after Thunderbolts too since it would be a chance to see Bucky and Sam together after the New Avengers were formed) and Ghost being from phase 3. But phase 4 intro’d Yelena then had her try do the hit on Hawkeye, intro’d Red Guardian, USAgent and even Bucky’s reintegration into society via FatWS. But also Valentina was seeded all throughout phase 4 too with Wakanda Forever being the true reveal she’s a ‘villain’. So Thunderbolts would’ve been a perfect phase 4 capper.

That all said, I’m glad we got Thunderbolts eventually and glad we’re finally getting Avengers again end of this year, but sometimes it feels a little too late lol. But better late than not at all.

Edit: also phase 5 they could’ve done Cap 4 as the ender but treated that film more like Civil War so an unofficial Avengers film with him bringing his Avengers team together maybe combatting the Power Broker and the Serpent Society or something. Because they really should’ve followed cues from Civil War for his film aka an ensemble Avengers cast instead of a solo film making him lead a Hulk sequel without the Hulk. Anyway, easy to look at this all in hindsight tho but yeah

Hufflepuffpassmethej2026-01-21 13:35

I made a comment here a while back but saying that is they instead took the 5 episodes of what if+marvel zombies, kept the story the EXACT same, just filmed in live action with all of the characters, it might have been my favorite MCU movie ever? And apparently there was some discussion of actually doing that?

jtfjtf2026-01-21 20:05

Cap BNW should have been a pseudo Avengers movie.

JokerFaces22026-01-21 22:54

It’s definitely the biggest misstep of the Multiverse Saga. The Avengers movies gave the MCU coherence, forward momentum and a lynchpin for casual fans to keep up with the universe.

Phases 4 and 5 needed to end with teamup movies, even if they saved the “Avengers” title specifically for Doomsday. Ultimates, Champions, etc could’ve filled the same purpose.

Glum-Act70422026-01-22 11:37

Marvel had terrible planning post endgame