is it crazy to still be disappointed about rdj as doom in the big 26
it’s just like why, why not just cast viggo mortensen or cillian murphy for the part it could’ve been so much more appealing and would’ve had people more on board
and also the fact that he’s allegedly not even gonna be from the 828 universe and his beef is with captain america? like i get it’s an avengers movie but 90% of his motivation is his cartoonishly evil hatred for reed richards
to put it into perspective it’s like making lex luthor a wonder woman villain from another universe and then he looks like batman
the x men and surprisingly sams avengers are what’s keeping me interested in doomsday with doctor doom being the least most interesting thing to me
and also the fact that he’s allegedly not even gonna be from the 828 universe and his beef is with captain america? like i get it’s an avengers movie but 90% of his motivation is his cartoonishly evil hatred for reed richards
to put it into perspective it’s like making lex luthor a wonder woman villain from another universe and then he looks like batman
the x men and surprisingly sams avengers are what’s keeping me interested in doomsday with doctor doom being the least most interesting thing to me
Commentaires
Seems like such a huge gamble. If they fumble this, the brand is toast. And it seems like an unnecessary gamble.
FTFY
And we all know they aren't going to leave it at that. There has to be a multiversal reason why they have the same face. It's going to be "what if Tony was bad".
I still have trust in the Russo bros that the movies will be good, but I do think they've put themselves in an unnecessary corner by bringing him back.
All of their MCU movies are amazing, so I am hopeful, but cautiously.
By casting him, you don’t have to literally ask that question on screen. Instead you can just let the audience make the comparison between Doom and Tony’s story—which we all know.
It’s not likely to *literally* be “What if *Tony Stark* became a villain” like many people seem to think it will be.
Also they’ve had a handful of hits this saga. In 2022 alone they made $2.5b.
And do you really think we were gonna get all these other nostalgia characters/actors this saga like Tobey, Hugh, Snipes, Stewart, etc…*except* RDJ?
i just really struggle to see a reason they would cast RDJ as Doom other than fan service. they are worried they wont make a billion dollars on this one and are bringing back a fan favorite. whether Doom is a Stark variant, or just looks like him randomly (lol), its just justification for that financial choice.
cute.
Including RDJ isn’t somehow making it better, its worse. It’s just lumping the infinity saga into the big nostalgia pot so they can go mmmmmm member your favorite hewoes????? lol
The multiverse movies have been the most successful ones this saga so obviously most audiences members would disagree with you.
Argumentum ad populum, btw. “More people like it” means nothing about the quality or the choices, it means people are happier to go “hurrrr durr guy from movie when I was kid!!!!”than watch the marvels
So far they find a quick excuse to have their heroes unmask. And paying big money for a big name actor, only to never show their face? That’s a risk. And i dont think one they would take. Maybe we will get scarred up RDJ.
But those very expectations are what's hamgstringing them in the creative process. Rdj being recast as doom just screams money grab and an unwillingness to take risks and try new things.
I do agree tho, plenty of stuff after endgame has been good. Shang chi, eternals, ms marvel, she hulk, kids Hawkeye, etc are all great unique characters that should get more screentime. A lot of them give the mcu an opportunity to get back to street level crime instead of constantly saving the universe.
According to who? Spider-Man was murdered and controlled by Dr Octopus for a whole year. Shit, that was 616, that wasn't even a variant. Using heroes as your villains from alternate universes is old hat for comics bud. RDJ as Doom really just isn't that far of a stretch.
But not everyone knows or reads the comics and I can see how it seems insane and jarring to people who haven't.
If it was an entirely separate character they would be stupid to cast him in a series with a multiverse to then turn around and say "yeah even though it's a multiverse and every other time the same actor pops up it's because of the multiverse but this time he's just a different guy".
No Chris Evans coming back as Johnny Storm doesn't count. He played both roles pre multiverse, it gets a pass. No other major actor has shown up in two separate roles. They could've gotten any big name they wanted with the money they're paying RDJ.
Robert Downey Jr also auditioned to play Doom in the same Fantastic Four movies Evans starred in. So there is an extra meta level to the casting: "What if RDJ played Doom in the 00s?"
But who knows. Only time will tell which one of us is right.
You can dislike a decision before the movie comes out
Naysayers on the internet are just a vocal minority
Interent echo chambers
>Naysayers on the internet are just a vocal minority
You arent the majority
I fully maintain my stance on this topic and have been saying it for a long time. Idgaf about driving outrage content or farming karma. I think if they wanted to make an actually worthwhile movie that was actually about Doom, RDJ *could* pull that off as he is a very good actor, and an actor's job is to convincingly pretend to be different people, and Doom is a character whose face we shouldn't be seeing regardless.
I also know that having there be some arbitrary connection between the two characters would be stupid, have nothing interesting to say as a story, would be a waste of RDJ as an actor, and a waste of Doom as a character in the biggest role he'll ever get in an MCU movie. Doom's connection with Reed is a deep well worth accessing, and to have zero establishment of that dynamic before such a major role for the character is also a waste, and puts too much pressure on the movie to have to either ignore that dynamic (awful) or try to juggle establishing *and* exploring it while still trying to properly utilize and connect the other billion characters in the movie, all of whom also have little to no connection yet and need *that* established, on top of establishing the actual stakes of the film and telling a story. Boy, that was a lot of usage out of the word establish... anyway...
Doom should be Doom, regardless of who plays him. All other alternatives are stupid. That's not fake outrage--that's wanting them to meaningfully adapt one of their best villains.
Edit: fixed a typo
It makes zero sense for Doom to look like Stark
This alone has me excited for RDJ in the role.
Have a variant of Stark be the villain if you want, but having that variant of Stark be Doom is just lazy.
However, from what I’ve seen rumour wise, the Doom/RDJ look will be explored in Secret Wars instead of Doomsday. Also hoping the film is at least 3 hours long so we can actually see all these characters come together organically without it being a huge nostalgia cameo slop fest.
There is nothing whatsoever interesting or worth exploring about "what if Tony Stark was evil" and even less so if the answer to that is "he's a ripoff of Doctor Doom, who we haven't even seen in any of these movies anyway." That's not interesting in the first place, but even LESS so with Tony Stark than almost any other chracter since you're taking a character whose main arc *was a redemption arc* and then asking "what if they were bad?"
Doom should be Doom, regardless of the casting. There should be no reference to the actor connection at all. Every single theory I have ever seen about them being in any way connection has been *terrible*, and, granted fan theories *usually* suck, but honestly I just don't think there's a single good way to do it. If they go that route, no matter what, it's a waste of both Doom as a character *and* RDJ's abilities as an actor.
Would Spidey getting dusted have hit as hard if he had no prior relationship to Stark? Would Cap showing up to save Vision have been as impactful without Civil War? Would Loki’s death have mattered if we hadn’t explored his relationship with Thor over multiple movies?
For me personally, that’s the build up that’s really missing leading up to Doomsday. RDJ as Doom and him resembling Stark is going to be doing a lot of the emotional heavy lifting for this movie.
but can we fucking wait till the movie comes out??
like i cant think of a major comic book character that didn’t get some backlash when casted. then they do a phenomenal job and everyone is all like “WE were all wrong about *blank*”
like i love the character and im sure this iteration wont be my favorite but there just is no way to write him accurately in this universe
Now, we get daily threads and theories and posts about how Doom will appear or what they'll do to to address Doom looking like Tony that it feels kind of similar to the pre-Infinity War days in all those older threads about where people theorizing where the Soul Stone was and so on. The hype isn't at the same level, but it is there.
Still, I agree with you. I'm curious about RDJ as Doom, but not excited. But that's how we felt about RDJ as Tony way back in pre-2008 times, so we may be in for a surprise.
I’m so deeply uninterested in the movie as a result of his casting. They wanna drag out all these adventures, just for my nostalgia? Nah. I’ll wait till it’s streaming.
There are plenty of actors who could’ve played Doom.
But you could have gone a different way, saved money, and still gotten a brilliant performance. They are looking at RDJ to bring people into the seats, and honestly I don't think that's why people see the MCU any more.
How are people saying RDJ being Doom needs them to be variants or something close yet are perfectly okay with Doom looking identical to Kaecilius without any explanation?
Doom worked in comics because of his backstory with the Fantastic Four. Adapting that for the current MCU, doesn’t mean they should force that same story to work in a new medium. The Fantastic Four are the new team on the block, so if you want to faithfully adapt the spirit of Doom, you connect him to the OGs of the current iteration of the MCU, not the new squad.
Every teaser has just been "oooh remember THAT character, now what if THAT CHARACTER and THIS OTHER CHARACTER met 😱"
I want Doom to be a big, singular thing. Something we've never seen before. Casting RDJ in a desperate bid to get prior audiences engaged just seems like they're throwing in the towel on how much they think they can appeal to new people coming into the franchise (and yes, you STILL NEED TO DO THIS with multi-billion dollar franchises) and how much new storytelling we're going to see.
A fucking insanely awesome casting for this, a big name (or even an up and comer!) that's new to the MCU was the way to go. Instead we're getting this and it's just...deflating. It's like they don't trust us to like new things.
Bringing him back feels cheap and cheapens him dying even if its not the same strak . Plot they wrote isnt a reason to justify it btw. They brought him back because they know the hardcore fans are obsessed with him. They could've just wrote a different character that wasnt fan service.
The fans in this sub dont represent the average viewer so they arent great to ask.
This is an oxymoron.
We don't know anything about this movie other than it's going to have a very large cast. Is he beef with Steve and only Steve? Is this officially somewhere or just a rumor? If it's only a rumor, chill out. Stop buying into online conspiracy theories. You're getting yourself upset for potentially no reason.
You’re so right, Viggo would have been great, even Mads M despite being in Dr. Strange.
But RDJ? I can’t see it as anything but a cash grab.
Actors can play different characters, and we shouldn't even be seeing Doom's face anyway, so if they actually have an interest in using the character of Doom and not just the name and referencing the look, then we won't anyway. That's assuming they care more about making a good story than cashing in on RDJ money (doubtful.)
It does, however, very much upset me that Doom hasn't played any role in any movie prior to what will invariably be his largest presence ever in any MCU movie. He will never have as big a role as being the main villain of two Avengers movies, and having zero established relationship with Reed prior to that is asinine.
On top of that, if they waste his biggest spotlight moment on it *not even fucking being Doom*, that's even WORSE. If it's just "evil Tony Stark" or "Doom took over Stark's body" or any other stupid crap (literally every Doom-Stark connection theory sucks) then they're wasting the character of Doom, wasting RDJ as an actor, and wasting the audience's time with a story that's not even interesting or worth exploring.
"What if Tony Stark was evil?" is not interesting. His main arc was a redemption arc. WE ALREADY KNOW what it would be like if Tony Stark was bad because *that's what he was to start with*. There's nothing of value to be said or explored with that concept.
It would be like reducing Magneto to a generic avengers villain because half of the avengers have like really cool metal weaponry.
I’ll go see the movies, and judge em on their merits. I’m not a giant comic book guy so I’ll not be bothered by the little things they change about the character anyways. And honestly I’m not sure why you would be either? It’s a movie adaptation, it’s almost never 1-1 accurate to what’s been in the comics. It’s be predictable and boring if it was
I’m staying cautiously optimistic, though. One thing that’s consistent with Marvel is that they’re full of surprises, even if it’s often hard to predict whether those surprises will be good or bad.
What more does it bring to any discussion framing it as a disappointment now? You literally have zero clue what will actually be his performance, or the character or story.
So many posts on here are just bringing up things people decided they didn’t like years ago with no context yet at all, and part of me thinks it’s just for rage farming and spreading negativity. They gave us FOUR teasers for this movie a year out and it should be exciting! Why are we so miserable here?!
Marvel was trying to do that with Kang, until that fell through.
Pivoting to Doom, they didn't have time to introduce a new villain and are using the shortcut of introducing a known character and making him bad.
This doesn't make it right, and I still think it's lazy, but from a movie making standpoint I understand why they're doing it.
I'm also holding out hope that RDJ as Doom is a red herring and he gets killed off by the "real" doom almost immediately.
If they cast Doom with another actor, but called him an Iron Man variant, I'd be a bit disappointed. If they cast RDJ, but did a passable makeup job and made no comparison to Tony Stark, I'm perfectly fine with that, just like I'm fine with Jason Momoa as Lobo, or Chris Evans as Human Torch.
There are two alternatives to this: 1. This is an evil version of Iron Man who became Dr. Doom instead, or 2. That this is an alternate reality Dr. Doom who just happens to look like RDJ. Either one just doesn’t work at all.
First one, while there is a comic where this happens, I think most of us would agree that Victor von Doom is the REAL Dr. Doom and the one person identified the most as being the classic Dr. Doom that everyone loves. It’s very important to Dr. Doom’s character and backstory that he is Victor von Doom. Having it be an evil Tony Stark would mean we lose a possible Victor Von Doom in the MCU.
The second one also doesn’t make sense since what are the chances that Victor von Doom just happens to look like Tony Stark? Alternate realities have shown that there exist the same characters across the timelines or realities, so why would there be two completely different people who look identical? Also, if the answer is that he will wear lots of makeup or wear a mask the whole movie, then what’s the point of having it be RDJ in the first place?
It’s obviously just a nostalgia cash bait in an attempt to hype up and keep the MCU ship afloat. Very disappointing.
The only solution is to have the real Dr. Doom show up at the end of the movie to kill whatever fake cosplay version that is the main antagonist in Doomsday.
I maintain that Mads Mikkelson's Kaecilius should have had an engineering-prone variant who combined magic and had same worlds-transforming vibe, expanding it after he saw its potential.
Would have fit the Kang variants narrative so well.
I still agree with you, but I just think they may have hit the panic button and just thought of a way to wrap up the multiverse saga in the most general audience appealing way they could.
I honestly would have preferred RDJ to just come back as a variant... Too simple I guess, but makes more sense to me so far. They go back and get Tony to help fight off Doom. I really like Doom's comic origin.
But let's see. I don't get upset over this stuff and my heart isn't set on anything. Maybe it will be good.
However It could be good. I am curious as to how It's explained.
Doom is one of Marvel’s most morally complex villains. His Romani heritage, stolen childhood, and rigid personal code shape everything he does. His rivalry with Reed isn’t just personal; it is ideological. Doom does not see himself as evil. He sees himself as necessary. His hatred for Reed is rooted in pride, insecurity, and philosophical opposition. Reed proves that Doom is not the singular mind destined to rule humanity, and that truth terrifies him.
Reducing this conflict to a surface-level grudge just to justify casting RDJ feels like a lazy shortcut. I’ll reserve judgment until the film releases, but his involvement is easily the most worrying aspect of the project. Marvel has consistently struggled to adapt its greatest villains with depth, and turning Doom into “Iron Man in a mask” would be the ultimate betrayal of the character.
If the story works and the character is written with respect, I’ll give it credit. But right now, this feels like a creative cop-out for a franchise playing it safe with one of Marvel’s most important antagonists.
Also, I would imagine that Doom unveiling his mask and revealing that he looks like Tony will pull on the emotional heartstrings on all parties involved.
That casting alone, either way, largely turned me off to the future of the MCU. It seems obvious they were scared by the lapse in interesting after Endgame and they scrambled to put butts back in seats, but casting big stars has never been the strength of the MCU- in fact, casting big names was the beginning of the downfall. It's the complacency of movie producers thinking they can buy success with an actuarial formula instead of PAYING A FUCKING WRITER WHO COSTS A FRACTION OF A MOVIE STAR.
Look at the talent behind the camera and in front of it at the beginning. Established writers and directors- Whedon\*, Branagh, Johnston- practical nobodies in the lead roles. Evans was in a few ok movies and a failed F4, but he was by no means a household name. Hemsworth, nobody. RDJ, career so low they had to fight to get him in the role and he was paid less than Terence Howard.
Now, leading up to Endgame and after, we have big stars- Cumberbatch and Larsen coming off Oscar wins- and we have literal nobodies with no experience writing and directing Black Widow, WandaVision, FATWS. They do poorly because they weren't good enough, not because people have "hero fatigue." There is no such thing as hero fatigue, only bad movie fatigue.
\*I know Whedon sucks, and there are telltale flaws that are explicitly him, but he mostly knew how to make an action franchise.
You don't drop stupid RDJ money to get RDJ if youre hiding his face. It's that simple. And since everyone for the last 20 years has associated RDJ's face as the face of not only Iron Man but also the MCU you know that Doom is a Tony variant or vice versa. Otherwise you could cast literally anyone else and save yourself millions and millions of dollars.
There no way general audiences will see an Avengers movie that doesn't address why Tony is silver and green instead of gold and red.
I really wish they just kept Majors. He ain’t even hit shorty that hard.
This sub would’ve downvoted you to oblivion if you said that few years ago. People in this sub were treating Majors like he was R Kelly
Maybe we’ll get a great plot element which hinges on Doom and Tony Stark being played by the same actor. I hope we do. But *right now*, that casting decision is negative hype for me.
The only info out there to support any of what you're claiming is stuff from leakers, who have become more and more notoriously inaccurate or just flat out wrong in recent years.
The truth is, we have no idea what the actual plot or motivation of Doom will be, how he will be used or where his origins come from, or why they chose RDJ to play him. Knowing how passionate the Russos have been long term about Doom and the Secret Wars storylines, and how badly Feige knows the MCU needs to recover some of the lost faith and interest, I would have to imagine they're giving it their all and have a pretty solid reason for the choices they are making.
I get the controversy around RDJ being cast as Doom, and the mixed responses it's given people, but the truth is we don't know why that decision was truly made until the film(s) are out. History has shown us time and again that fan reactions to castings or storylines can be wildly inaccurate to the actual product, and so I think it's wise to reserve judgement or jump to conclusions like what you're doing until the actual movie is out or we have more official information.
Also all this talk about "why didn't they just go with Cillian Murphy and Viggo Mortenson' as if those two are just readily available and on call or dying to be in the MCU is just fan naivety. How long are people gonna cry about a hypothetical that may never have happened in the first place?
People are acting like Jennifer Walters is being recast into the MCU to be the next lead villain in Avengers. It blows my mind all this outrage when we haven't seen a single minute of RDJ as Doom. RDJ is a great actor lets wait and see how things unfold. I mean hey there are still MCU projects coming out before Doom, and those could build toward the movie.
He’s playing doom. We don’t know if that ties into the story, if they just wanted RDJ for the role, or if it’s just drum up interest because he’s a well known name and they can use the nostalgia aspect
But he’s playing doom, whether people like It or not. I say let’s see what happens and judge from that
They should’ve just let the endings remain untouched. But lets be real, we all know they’re absolutely desperate.
I dont mean to be all gloomy but man. However they do this, they wont be able to satisfy everyone.
Dr Doom is and always will be a Romani. It’s integral to his character as it’s the reason his mother is persecuted and he tries to find a way into Hell to rescue her.
Why be disappointed by something no one has even seen yet? What if they tell an amazing story and the movie is so well done it reinvents the Marvel universe?
This reminds me of when Raimi's Spider-Man was revealed to have organic web shooters before the movie came out. People went BUGFUCK! There were folks genuinely threatening to boycott the movie. But I bet they all went and saw it, probably multiple times.
So, maybe the casting seems weird. But like... what if it's good?
Damn. That's vicious, but accurate.
But the moment I see his face (unless it’s disfigured and unrecognizable) and/or if he’s some variant to iron man, that’ll leave a bad taste in my mouth and will ruin my movie experience and I’ll likely rate it badly as well.
Should’ve casted someone else and having RDJ come back literally just invalidates iron man’s death….
For me, Doom Never Reveals his Face, thats the Mistery about him. But we probaply will get one or many more scenes with his Face, because it‘s RDJ.
Well, let‘s See what we get.