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Nia Dacosta: "I visited the Avengers set last summer, which was really fun, catching up with the producers, seeing the Russos, and some of my friends were in the movie. So it was really nice, despite how everything went with the box office and the reviews, knowing that the relationships are so good"
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It flopped because the movie is not good, it came out at a terrible time with very bad marketing and it was a sequel to a movie that overperformed massively thanks to Infinity War.
Same thing as video game sequels. I wouldn't let that stop you from watching things you think might be interesting.
If it didn't look interesting, that's fine. But you don't really need to know anything about Monica from WandaVision or anything about Ms Marvel to understand the Marvels.
Yes, movies with diversity get review bombed for a bit. No, that's not the reason The Marvels is where it's at.
Just amazing how little Secret Invasion mattered.
They told the Secret Invasion Showrunner, "Do whatever you want, just as long as he ends back up on the space station at the end."
And then he goes back with his wife who we never hear from again. Maybe she went to the Skrull planet in the Marvels that Gravik was mad didn't exist?
The jerks going after The Marvels had learned to lie about their motives after Captain Marvel, so they made up crap like "you have to watch 3 shows to understand it" instead to trick the sane people.
If your so called incels had the power you claim they had, a lot more marvel movies would have been disastrous flops in the last few years.
The set up a great story in the relationship of Monica and Carol and just threw It away in a conversation, same with Carol and Khamala (her viewing Carol as this great hero that Carol didn’t believe was true)
The villains entire story relied on an event we knew nothing about, and besides a few flashbacks didn’t even see during the movie. They defeat the villain and then Carol realizes she can just solve the entire problem the Villian had
It had a ton of potential and is fun, but really didn’t go anywhere. There’s a very solid movie in there but we didn’t see It
The Marvels was fine. Underperforming at the box office is not an indicator of quality and is just an angle from which haters like to approach it because they honestly don't have much else.
Fight Club underperformed. Scott Pilgrim underperformed. Annihilation, Idiocracy, Office Space - the list goes on.
Clearly crazy haha
The Marvels was just an ok movie at best that relied a good bit on needing to have seen Ms Marvel first
I do have the planet of Aladna as a place that Nova comes back to and needs vocal coaching to help.
Yup. Watched it recently even though I already knew most of its content. The scene where Monica chooses to sacrifice herself and ends up stranded in the X-Men's universe definitely didn't have the emotional gravity I would have imagined, which is quite a shame for an event that should have been such an important turning point in the whole saga.
All we see is Monica closing the portal while Carol is flying at her, trying to stop her, and failing. Then Carol comes back to the spaceship and embraces Kamala (whose reaction to the whole scene we didn't get to see *at all*, which felt so weird) to comfort her, and we don't really see anything of the emotional aftermath until Kamala comes back to Earth still crying.
I feel like it would have needed one or two shots of Kamala watching the incident unfold, completely powerless and distraught, for this scene to really hit the right way. As is, it landed a bit flat. Monica just poofs out of existence while Carol is flying toward her and then that's kinda just... it.
Making sacrifice scenes work properly tends to rely on showing how the other characters react to that sacrifice. We were shown Carol's desperation to rush to Monica (Makes sense, she's a woman of action, so her first instinct is to act, not feel. That's fine.), but the scene totally excludes Kamala, stuck on the ship, who can't do anything but watch in horror. Which is specifically the kind of emotional weight you shouldn't want to exclude when crafting a scene like that.
Compare it to Captain Marvel's performance at the box office just a few years before. The quality of the two movies aren't significantly different, if you like the first movie you'll probably like the sequel. But the last thing we see in Infinity War is Fury calling her on the pager, so the audience is being told "this character and movie will be important to the story". There's an incentive to go out and see it before Endgame comes out.
Compare that to the Marvels release. What purpose do these characters have in the overall story being told? Why should I care about these characters from two TV shows I may or may not have seen? It isn't really about the movie itself, but it was a consequence of Love & Thunder and Quantumania both being downright despised by audiences. The Marvels looked to be more of the same bloated, unfunny sci-fi CGI fest we had already been dealing with. Marketing was barely existent and the Kang storyline was going down the drain, so the MCU looked to be trying to make us watch another whatever movie featuring characters people didn't really connect with. Then the movie ends with what should be a huge tease towards the future, but the audience was already checked out and the whole thing kinda just felt like a wet fart. In fact I'm sure many people just assumed the alternate dimension Monica got sent to would just be thrown out like all of the Kang and Eternals stuff was.
It's not really the movie's fault at all, it's the Marvel machine not taking a second to reassess the situation they put themselves in when it came to audience reception and expectations. I think the movie needed some bigger draw to hook audiences that didn't watch Ms Marvel and Wandavision, like if it had more directly dealt with incursions to build up Doomsday.
I think it was the "directing". As in The Marvels was peak MCU process of extensive pre vis(not by director too), CGI puke and fix it in post mentality. Nia Dacosta probably had the least amount of freedom of any MCU director.
There is like zero director "flair".
The director admitted herself that her preference was cutting lots of scenes to keep the runtime down, which definitely would contribute to the kind of mistakes we see in the final product
carried hard but not enough for a block buster
It was too bad that it got hurt from a strong anti-MCU sentiment post Secret Invasion, plus review bombing by some of the worst people on the internet.
Disney had the option of delaying the movie like Dune 2 and Hunger Games did, they determined that moving it wouldn't make a difference.
It is a non factor.
Just those interviews might not have resulted in the movie making a huge profit, there were other factors involved anyway, but it's silly to say it was a non-factor. Why would every major studio be flying their actors around the globe and getting them to appear on random YouTube shows if their data showed it didn't matter for the movie's bottom line at all?
There would've been quite a few more asses in seats if the actors were just able to get the point across that people wouldn't be confused even if they were unfamiliar with those characters.
Movies that fail do them. Movies that succeed do them. They aren't some magic ticket. Also The Marvels was cold in terms of attention so in terms of invitations to the chat circuit it wouldn't have been near the top. It wouldn't have had a Wicked 2 sized presence. And Dune 2 would have opened near The Marvels and that cast would have got most of the attention.
> those are the best places for the marketing to disseminate information like, "oh you don't need to've watched the previous 20 MCU movies and 6 seasons of TV to enjoy this one".
There is no way to beat that kind of vibe. Because once people people have that vibe both answers are wrong. If you do need "homework" then the answer is "homework". If you don't need "homework" then you are suggesting the other entries are unimportant, so why get excited about this one? If the audience is thinking that the marketing has already failed.
> Plus those press interviews would've had 3 charismatic female leads with good chemistry, and Sam motherfucking Jackson.
Babylon had Brad Pitt and Margot Robbie and flopped. Amsterdam had Christian Bale, John David Washington and Margot Robbie and flopped. Those leads far far far more charismatic than the leads of The Marvel and had cast interviews and still flopped. I find the proposition that The Marvel had notable charismatic leads as false and even if it did I don't see them have a great impact.
> Just those interviews might not have resulted in the movie making a huge profit, there were other factors involved anyway, but it's silly to say it was a non-factor.
Because you are talking tripling the amount of tickets sold just to break even. For every one person that went in 2023 two other would have had to go. The scale of The Marvel's failure is beyond any help. A million people in terms of 2023 ticket prices is about $10 million. You need to go up to 10 million people for a $100 million. A 100% conversion rate would be needed for people seeing that interviews and buying a ticket. Jimmy Kimmel would have had under 2 million viewers. Someone like Tony Hawk only got 2.3 million in October of 2023 for Hot Ones. Once you put in a reasonable conversation rate, under 5%, you see the numbers don't add up.
People were not interested in the movie and people who watched the movie weren't collectively thrilled.
> Why would every major studio be flying their actors around the globe and getting them to appear on random YouTube shows if their data showed it didn't matter for the movie's bottom line at all?
Because it's a win more thing. You take something people are interested in and give it insane attention. But you can't take something people are uninterested in like The Marvels and make it a $600 million box office(which would still be a disappointment).
Also Marvel/Disney always had the chance to move the movie. Beginning of 2024 had many wide open slots for a big movie. Marvel/Disney themselves didn't rate the chat circuit for improving The Marvels box office.
the movie on its own though was way too corny and poorly written. we don’t get enough time to explore the conflict between Monica and Carol.
i couldn’t even tell you what Carol did in this movie- it seemed like they tried to make Kamala Khan the star of it (rightfully so) but couldn’t commit to it. Captain Marvel herself felt like a glorified cameo.
it just bugs me that for a Captain Marvel sequel, we didn’t get any iconic/memorable scenes or character development from Captain Marvel herself….other than she slept with/married an alien prince which leads into a musical number/worst part of the movie. it just feels intentionally insulting at moments, especially when the first movie wasn’t received well- it’s like they doubled down on writing her poorly.
no one but like 20 people are gonna see doomsday for captn ranbou and miss marvel
Waiting just a few more months would have made a huge difference. Also the title should have been Captain Marvel 2 or Captain Marvel: (insert secondary title here)
The movie wasn't bad, the marketing was.
I feel the movie is too short; you have three characters, two of which one could reasonably assume are unknown to the audience, a new villain, and it's the shortest or one of the shortest Marvel flicks.
The director needed to De Palma the shit out of the fight scenes where the girls are at different places (not all the time, because the chaos of not knowing what happens elsewhere was key to some of these scenes, but would have helped establish others and have given the movie a unique flair).
The singing planet was badly thought out; it's a nice idea, but the execution is bad. Either cut it, or really invest a lot more energy in it.
Carol's "husband" should have been given a greater role. Maybe the use of flashbacks could have expanded on that particular plot point and on the singing planet.
Thankfully, some elements save the movie from being a total disaster: Kamala and her family are funny and charming, the scene with the flarkens is right out of GotG, the action scenes are interesting and they found a way for Carol to not be able to simply punch her way out of her problems that was not simply depowering her.
It's a disappointment to be cause I love Kamala and her crew, I like Captain Marvel, it's just not the movie they deserved. Not entirely the fault of the director, of course; management pushed hard for shorter runs, and of course a director can't always save the script.
But as a sequel to CM it was a whiplash change of tone. It should have been Ms Marvel season 2.
https://deadline.com/2024/05/biggest-box-office-bombs-2023-lowest-grossing-movies-1235902825/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_biggest_box-office_bombs
shes not popular with the crowd that disney wants of early to mid 2010s characters fans
a common complain is shes too strong, and kinda? but it evens out with her villains and setting, but when its on a team of all around weaker heroes minus a couple? theres a reason Endgame has her come out late, Wanda shows up late too and gets distracted and strange busy with a fucking river
I sure hope shes cool and important I wanted her to be the next big thing but it didnt pan out because disney is a pos shooting her in the foot before the race got going
Cap marvel is still on my 5 favorite mcu movies
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The idea of Carol struggling to live up to the hero she can be, and not believing she is that hero is a great follow up to her first movie. Dealing with the consequences of her actions, and realizing she has the power to fix them
But instead she spends half the movie not knowing what’s happening, not knowing that what she did on Hala is why the Villian is doing this.
Then it’s solved by them defeating the Villian and her realizing she can just start the sun again
Her relationship with Monica, and the miscommunication between them. That’s resolved in a conversation where she finally reveals she returned to see Maria and was with her in the end.
Her not living up to the idea that Khamala has of her, not being the hero that she thinks she is. That’s resolved in the same conversation between Monica and Carol, where Khamala realizes she’s an actual person with struggles, not just this figure to look up to
The story is there but they don’t spend any time on It, instead they focused on scenes of the trio just having fun, going on their journey to the singing planet, cats on the space station.
It's pretty easy to tell what happened when she was claiming "It's not my movie" in interviews.