I Did Not Like F4 First Steps :(
I felt like F4 was a movie that was *trying* to be a lot of things and did not really succeed in any of them. For example, the character arcs:
* Ben has this weird undeveloped maybe-romance going on with not-Alicia-Masters? Forgot her name. I'm pretty sure the viewer is *supposed* to be invested in them, but as far as I can tell, their screentime amounts to a four-minute chat while Ben buys cookies and then a quick shot of them together in what I think was a synagogue. Was there... a point to this? You could cut her from the movie entirely and it would change nothing about Ben or the viewer's understanding of Ben or really anything at all.
* Reed is ostensibly a guy who sometimes goes "too far," i.e. considers potentially unethical solutions and so forth. He has his argument with Sue where she tells him that "you being you hurts me." However, at no point in the movie did I actually feel convinced by this? The worst thing he does is *consider* (and reject!) the possibility of giving up Franklin to Galactus. It's pretty hard to buy that he does this sort of thing on the regular? It felt very "tell not show." "You being you hurts me" is also a pretty crazy thing to say to your spouse with zero (as far as I remember) resolution or follow-up or anything.
There were also a few points in the plot where it seemed like the movie was trying to give the impression that something bad *would* happen and then never followed through on it. We've got:
* Sue is going into premature labor because of Galactus! She can barely make it back to the ship and now Franklin is being born in space during a chase scene! Oh, never mind, she pushed him out with zero consequences to her or Franklin
* The public hates the F4 because they're not willing to give up Franklin! Even Reed is having doubts about their plan! Wait, Sue makes a speech and everything's okay and everyone is on the F4's side now
* Someone will have to sacrifice themself and push Galactus into the portal! It looks like it's going to be Johnny--oh, pushed out of the way by Shalla-Bal at the last second
* Sue has overexerted herself telekinesis-ing Galactus over to the portal! She's dead! She's not breathing! Oh, Franklin has resurrected her
Like, I'm not saying that there had to be long-lasting consequences for every one of these events. I'm not even saying that there necessarily had to be long-lasting consequences at *all*. I just wish they wouldn't build up tension and pretend like it's going to matter and then psyche the viewer out at the last second. A little bait-and-switch is okay, but it was too much bait-and-switch.
I'm trying to find the words to encapsulate how I felt watching the movie. I think it felt like nothing *mattered*. IMO *something* has to change over the course of a movie. That can be a ton of things! A character's perspective/personality could change, a relationship could change, the situation could change, it could even be the viewer's perspective changing while the in-universe stays the same, whatever. But at the end of F4, we were in the exact same spot that we started the movie in.
In fairness to F4, there were things it did very well. I thought Johnny and Shalla-Bal and him translating her language and all of that was great. I liked the sort of campy vibe to the movie. I also liked the glimpses we got of Shalla-Bal's planet; it looked beautiful. But there was too much stuff that it did poorly for me to enjoy the movie.
I might have also set my expectations too high. I went in very excited, since after a stream of pretty mediocre projects, the last two MCU pieces I'd seen were Agatha All Along and Thunderbolts (which I loved), and they got me reinvested into the MCU. So I was expecting something as god as or better than those two. The disappointment was almost worse than the actual movie for me.
I don't know. It was one of the few MCU movies that I finished thinking that I genuinely disliked it (there have been a lot that I found mediocre or boring or whatever, but not many that I disliked). It was on par with Quantumania for me (*not* a compliment).
I really wish I'd liked it. It's deflated a lot of my personal hype for Doomsday.
* Ben has this weird undeveloped maybe-romance going on with not-Alicia-Masters? Forgot her name. I'm pretty sure the viewer is *supposed* to be invested in them, but as far as I can tell, their screentime amounts to a four-minute chat while Ben buys cookies and then a quick shot of them together in what I think was a synagogue. Was there... a point to this? You could cut her from the movie entirely and it would change nothing about Ben or the viewer's understanding of Ben or really anything at all.
* Reed is ostensibly a guy who sometimes goes "too far," i.e. considers potentially unethical solutions and so forth. He has his argument with Sue where she tells him that "you being you hurts me." However, at no point in the movie did I actually feel convinced by this? The worst thing he does is *consider* (and reject!) the possibility of giving up Franklin to Galactus. It's pretty hard to buy that he does this sort of thing on the regular? It felt very "tell not show." "You being you hurts me" is also a pretty crazy thing to say to your spouse with zero (as far as I remember) resolution or follow-up or anything.
There were also a few points in the plot where it seemed like the movie was trying to give the impression that something bad *would* happen and then never followed through on it. We've got:
* Sue is going into premature labor because of Galactus! She can barely make it back to the ship and now Franklin is being born in space during a chase scene! Oh, never mind, she pushed him out with zero consequences to her or Franklin
* The public hates the F4 because they're not willing to give up Franklin! Even Reed is having doubts about their plan! Wait, Sue makes a speech and everything's okay and everyone is on the F4's side now
* Someone will have to sacrifice themself and push Galactus into the portal! It looks like it's going to be Johnny--oh, pushed out of the way by Shalla-Bal at the last second
* Sue has overexerted herself telekinesis-ing Galactus over to the portal! She's dead! She's not breathing! Oh, Franklin has resurrected her
Like, I'm not saying that there had to be long-lasting consequences for every one of these events. I'm not even saying that there necessarily had to be long-lasting consequences at *all*. I just wish they wouldn't build up tension and pretend like it's going to matter and then psyche the viewer out at the last second. A little bait-and-switch is okay, but it was too much bait-and-switch.
I'm trying to find the words to encapsulate how I felt watching the movie. I think it felt like nothing *mattered*. IMO *something* has to change over the course of a movie. That can be a ton of things! A character's perspective/personality could change, a relationship could change, the situation could change, it could even be the viewer's perspective changing while the in-universe stays the same, whatever. But at the end of F4, we were in the exact same spot that we started the movie in.
In fairness to F4, there were things it did very well. I thought Johnny and Shalla-Bal and him translating her language and all of that was great. I liked the sort of campy vibe to the movie. I also liked the glimpses we got of Shalla-Bal's planet; it looked beautiful. But there was too much stuff that it did poorly for me to enjoy the movie.
I might have also set my expectations too high. I went in very excited, since after a stream of pretty mediocre projects, the last two MCU pieces I'd seen were Agatha All Along and Thunderbolts (which I loved), and they got me reinvested into the MCU. So I was expecting something as god as or better than those two. The disappointment was almost worse than the actual movie for me.
I don't know. It was one of the few MCU movies that I finished thinking that I genuinely disliked it (there have been a lot that I found mediocre or boring or whatever, but not many that I disliked). It was on par with Quantumania for me (*not* a compliment).
I really wish I'd liked it. It's deflated a lot of my personal hype for Doomsday.
Commentaires
I never got the impression we were supposed to think this was a dire part of their situation or we should be concerned about issues with the birth.
>The public hates the F4 because they're not willing to give up Franklin! Even Reed is having doubts about their plan! Wait, Sue makes a speech and everything's okay and everyone is on the F4's side now
You're describing a problem and it's resolution. There was a whole thing about uniting the world in the solution against Galactus.
>Sue has overexerted herself telekinesis-ing Galactus over to the portal! She's dead! She's not breathing! Oh, Franklin has resurrected her
The point here was to demonstrate Franklin's abilities.
I'm not really sure what you were expecting from those bits.
Also, the pacing. The Johnny and Sue almost-deaths stand out to me because they occur within five minutes of each other, or at least very close together. I can deal with one fakeout death, but two in close succession? Nahhhh.
I really don't see how the ones I quoted are 'fake tension' though?
People of Earth wanting them to give Franklin up: there is nothing that happens as a result of this plotline. I could describe it as “too easily resolved,” but it’s not even really about the simplicity or speed of the resolution, it’s about the fact that you could take it out of the movie and nothing changes. If Reed never tells people that giving up Franklin is a potential solution, so they never get angry, it’s… the same. (Arguably, it did lead to Reed and Sue’s argument, but I didn’t think that plotline went anywhere anyway, so.)
The one thing the Franklin-debate did do was build on Sue’s character, and I do see value in that. Particularly because otherwise you know people would be sitting here saying, “Sue is so evil for prioritizing her baby over everyone else’s lives!!” However, I think there were better ways to do that. The citizens are literally mobbing the Baxter Building, and everyone is questioning the F4, and then Sue gives one speech and all of Earth is on her side. It builds up her character at the cost of the plot.
Sue being dead: I get that it’s to show off Franklin’s abilities. I *really* don’t like that it happens almost immediately after Shalla-Bal pushes Johnny out of the way. Both of these scenes had buildup. Johnny telling Sue to tell Franklin his uncle loves him, then flying off to the portal… this is not a five-second Shalla-Bal pushes Johnny out of the way of a bullet or something. There is time dedicated to making the viewer think that Johnny will sacrifice himself to take out Galactus.
Similarly for Sue. She’s dead-dead. Reed’s checking her heartbeat, they’re all crying over the body, etc. I mean, you can make an argument for “it’s not that type of movie, you know she’ll come back somehow,” but outside of that meta, she is presented as being dead. I don’t think she died *just* to show off Franklin’s powers. The writers chose for Franklin’s powers to be shown off with Sue’s death for a reason, and part of that is the emotional impact of having Sue die and come back (as opposed to e.g. their PR person or somebody no one actually gives a shit about).
Bens side story with whatsherface was the only real "dumb" or pointless part for me.
That said, I’m glad you loved it! I know a lot of people were really excited to see F4 in the MCU.
Highlight was the space chase sequence for me.
For example: Ben's interactions with Rachel aren't meant to be a romance the way you are expecting it to be and I think it's throwing you off from what you're supposed to be getting from it. Ben's subplot isn't about the romance, it's about his self confidence and the effect that his family has on it. His sub plot is simple, but a look into how he sees himself. The movie establishes that he thought highly of his looks pre incident and that he likes Rachel. He thinks about going to see her but is reminded of what he looks like now compared to who he was before and decides not to go see her. Johnny then recommends a beard, which gives Ben a bit if a pep in his step. This, along with the possible end of the planet, gives Ben the confidence boost he needs to see past what he looks like, and make an attempt at something normal despite how he's changed. It isn't about the romance, it's about his self image not getting in his way.
The movie makes it very clear that Reed is chronically overthinking. It's like his entire arc in the movie. Although he rejects giving up Franklin, he's the only person in the family that views the decision so cold and calculated. He views it as an equation first and his son second. Also, Sue lives with him and knows how he thinks. She's seen him for years take in situations and view them under a very "practical" and "distanced" lens. So she knows that Reed couldn't help but *consider* giving up Franklin as a solution, because it's who he is. Although he rejects it, it's not something Sue could even consider. That's why she says that. The idea that he's capable of, even for a second, weighing the benefits of sacrificing their child, is something that causes her hurt.
"There were also a few points in the plot where it seemed like the movie was trying to give the impression that something bad would happen and then never followed through on it."
This is just...movies? I don't really understand what your issue is here.
Your first example is kind of a stretch because the danger is never that Sue is in labor, it's a complication for their escape. Also, the movie is about this child being born and the effects it has on their lives. Also, the threat is the baby being taken, not complications from child birth. This one is really strange. You say nothing bad happened, but the bad thing that happened was the Fantastic Four lost and a big ol boy is coming to eat them.
Your second example is another issue you seem to have and it's kind of determining the beginning and end of a conflict incorrectly. You seem to view the conflict as "people are mad at the FF, Sue gives a speech, people arent mad at FF" and if the act that took place in began and ended that way, I would agree. But this is where you tend to nitpick to make your point. This act is all about the FF figuring out how to beat Galactus, it begins with the public losing faith in the FF as they are feeling the same. Once Sue reminds them that they are all a family, and that they have always had the best interest of the planet at heart, they ALL WORK TOGETHER ON A SOLUTION. But, in a move that you should have acknowledged since it was your complaint that nothing bad was committed to. The plan fails, and Silver Surfer destroys their plan. To recap. The conflict isnt "people are mad at the FF, Sue gives a speech, people arent mad at FF" it's "People and FF work past conflict to work together, but fail."
Third example, again, you say your issues is nothing bad happens, but a character literally sacrifices themselves. Like, Shallah-Bal is gone. Something bad happened. I'm confused.
Fourth example, nothing bad needed to happen here. The Final scene made the point that Sue would rather kill herself than allow anything to happen to her baby or planet. The movie was also hinting the entire time that Franklin was special and that needed to be paid off. Also, I'd be pretty pissed if they killed Sue in the FIRST Fantastic Four movie. Either way, I think you're criticizing this scene for something unjustly
I don't know. Dislike what you want. But from where I'm standing you just seem like you were expecting something that the movie wasn't trying to give you.