After Brave New World, are you now bought into Sam as Captain America? If not, why?
Personally, I’m not.
I know that in the comics mantles get passed all the time. But MCU Sam just doesn’t do it for me. I have stated my reasons, here on Reddit, and it seems I’m just a bigot for not being a fan of it.
To be clear, I’m referring strictly to MCU Sam, and not comics lore, as there are many key differences.
What are your thoughts?
I know that in the comics mantles get passed all the time. But MCU Sam just doesn’t do it for me. I have stated my reasons, here on Reddit, and it seems I’m just a bigot for not being a fan of it.
To be clear, I’m referring strictly to MCU Sam, and not comics lore, as there are many key differences.
What are your thoughts?
Commentaires
What if he didn't have the shield?
Edit: spelling
So I'm theory, by your definition, there can be multiple caps at once?
So we'll have US agent, Sam and Steve.
Sam Wilson the captain America of terrorists.
I'm of the mindset that there doesn't need to be another Cap in the MCU. But of course, they wouldn't just let the popularity of the name go to waste, so it all kind of feels forced.
We all knew the shield was still coming back to Sam. That is the whole point of Fatws.
John may have been Cap for part of that story. But he was never The Cap to us the audience.
Like literally of course he was. In the story.
But like he doesnt count as a cap to me personally.
He is Cap in name, and he has the shield, but I just don't see him as Cap. I didn't see John as Cap either.
IMO, as far as the MCU, I'd rather they just let the name RIP. But in the real world, our world, of course they need to continue making money off the name. So I get it, but in terms of the MCU universe, meh
This guy show sympothy to a terrorist but not even single emotion on killing of innocents.
I mean it's a shame that terrorist sympothiser like him is captain America.
Walker is far better than him
If you’re not one of them then fine but you’re sharing a side with them so be prepared for people to assume.
But considering I have multicultural lineage I find it to be a comical conclusion.
If people fail to apply nuance and choose to go with the "you don't like him cause he's black" I personally find that's more telling about their state of mind than my own.
Steve is Captain America. Sam can still have hugely heroic moments moving forward but he doesn’t need to fling a shield around to do so.
Edit: grammar
BNW made me just realize how much I miss Steve as Cap. Nothing against Sam just Steve is who I imagine.
Because sam Wilson was just showing sympothy to terrorist and didn't even said a single word against those terrorist when he heard that these terrorist killed innocent civilians. He defended terrorist by saying they are childs.
How can that shameless guy be captain America
He doesn't care about people. Does he show sympothy when lamar got murdered. No
He just cared about terrorist in that show.
Most shameless guy in that show.
How can a terrorist sympothiser be captain America
Doomsday is probably their last chance to sell casuals on Sam as Cap before Disney execs say team up only.
Agreed. That's also why I like that Sam won't take the serum; and, while I can understand why people don't like Red Hulk being one of the antagonists in *BNW,* I think they did a great job using it as an opportunity to highlight what Sam might do when he is up against a physical threat that's outside his own league *and* to reinforce what Sam's ideals and values are.
(As an aside, that's one reason why I have such a soft spot for Clint Barton.)
Because Sam never condones or defends their methods. He points out their age as a reason for why he wants to try to talk them *out of* the methods they're using. And his speech at the end is about urging the leaders to look into and understand *why* the movement is so heavily supported, so the leaders can better address the core problems and therefore solve the movement too.
He spends the entire show trying to *stop* the terrorists. Just because he had the capacity to see things from their perspective (to paraphrase a great quote from another show: "Understanding you doesn't mean I agree with you") and use an approach other than "go in guns blazing" doesn't mean he's a "Captain America of terrorists."
Something about it doesn’t sit right with me, even though it’s supposed to show Sam’s bravery that he puts himself in harms way but would get just as beat up as you or I.
Sam could have had some of the nano tech. Lose the wings but fly with a mix of Ironman and falcon.
That way when Doom arrived he could exploit them all.
It wasn't very well received, and it only lasted for 25 issues. The poor MCU reception has actually been one of the more accurate adaptations. We didn't like it in the comics, and we don't like it on screen either.
Even just looking at the MCU on its own, Sam was given zero character in Infinity War and Endgame before they decided to have Steve pass the mantle to him at the end. It's already a tough sell uphill battle from the start, and while FatWS tried to give him some characterization, BNW decided to not try at all. Compare those two projects to his introduction in Winter Soldier, feels like they forgot who he used to be.
I'd have preferred if Marvel had just taken the best parts of FatWS, such as John Walker, Isaiah Bradley, Bucky's therapy, and made a Cap 4 movie out of it in Phase 4, with the focus on expanding Sam's peripheral characters like Winter Soldier did for Steve.
Marvel and DC have the unique benefit of knowing exactly which characters and stories connect with audiences before they ever have to commit money to putting them on-screen. Marvel, in particular, seems to operate in spite of this, pushing their poorly received characters and arcs for absolutely no reason other than the hubris of assuming what didn't work once will work now because the MCU became massively popular. Instead, all they've done is damage their brand by shooting themselves in the foot all over again.
So it means Tom Brevoort and Nick Lowe actually runs Marvel Studios and not Kevin Feige and Louis D'Esposito.
It’s more of a fundamental: others may wear a mantle, but there’s only one true best version of them. I’ll always prefer those versions
Steve Rogers is *the* Captain America, just like Peter Parker is *the* Spider-Man, T’Challa is *the* Black Panther, etc.
I also don't like the idea of 100 spiderman. I mean I get it, multiverse whatever. But I'm more a fan of a character having their own identity and not living in someone else's shadow.
I personally think the shield would be just fine memorialized in a museum and Sam staying Falcon and being great just like that.
Steve was cool too though
It also doesn’t help that prior to Endgame, there really was no foreshadowing that Sam would end up as Cap. In fact, all the foreshadowing seemed to lend itself to Bucky holding the mantle, especially with the fallout of Civil War.
There should have been an Avengers movie with him in it already
Lack of serum is part of the problem.
BNS is about redhulk (and a bit of new falcon, and isaiah bradley) and not about sam.
Unfortunate, but what can u do. I guess they want some red hulk in doomsday
They *usually* tread the line on suspension of disbelief in a way that allows the audience to buy in like that, but Sam is just a dude. He’s got vibranium wings and a vibranium shield, but his muscles are just muscles and his bones are just bones. I can buy it when he shields himself against Hulk punches with his wings. They are vibranium, and they are supporting themselves presumably.
The shield? Nah. Hilariously bad to see Sam hide behind the vibranium shield while the Hulk smashes the shit out of it. Is the shield strong enough to survive Hulk punches? Yes. But what is holding up the shield? Just some dude. There’s no way Sam himself wouldn’t be crushed to goop underneath that completely intact shield.
I would have absolutely bought a story of Sam taking the serum BECAUSE he knew he earned the shield before that, as evidenced by Steve giving it to him without that foreknowledge.
I didn't see Sam do much of that kind of stuff in Brave New World.
The story's a bit street-level, but comics have more room to tell more stories, so things like this work for the medium.
However, they dropped the ball badly with BNW. Not really too bothered to see him continue as cap, unless they bring Steve back as well. Think its much cooler seeing Steve fight the x-men for the first time than Sam as well.
I'm a Southern White dude.
I absolutely love the idea of Mackie as Cap. They need to let more of his natural charm and his Southern charisma shine true. MCU Sam is often written as a stick in the mud and I don't like that. Let Mackie be himself. Give me my Southern Cap. Falcon and the Winter Soldier did a much better job of that.
Both Mackie and Russell have great potential to just let them be themselves as Cap.
Hell, even in DC. You haven’t seen a sustainable run where a top tier iconic character, like Batman or Superman, are replaced. There have been numerous attempts but none stuck.
Miles Morales is probably the closest thing to a success at Marvel, but even then it’s questionable. He’s referred to as “Miles” or “Miles Morlaes” in pop culture, not “spider-man” - when people say “spider-man” you know they mean Peter Parker. His video games and movies all feature Peter and heavily revolve around the idea that he’s proving he can be spider-man 2 and fill the shoes.
IMO, this (the 2015 marvel mass passing of the mantle) was a bad attempt to see if they can keep a story going without recasting once an actor gets too expensive. There’s nothing wrong with Sam Wilson or Anthony Mackie. The issue is, people came for Steve rogers. I think Anthony could’ve played Steve if we did a do over, and that’s fine, but it’s hard to convince us Sam is Cap
He didn’t have a moment.
No jumping on the grenade
No elevator scene
No regret as the truth comes out
I always liked Sam as Falcon and I was really hoping his story arc would be becoming confident in who he is, not trying to fill someone else’s boots and adorn their legacy. Realizing that Cap’s legacy can stay his, that Steve Rogers made it his and can own it.. and Sam can create *his* own legacy as his own identity, that never belonged to anybody but himself.
Physicality: Sam moved slow, his fighting felt sluggish, and he had a hard time fighting a nameless goon in his own movie. Flying was cool but it really did just feel like worse Iron Man.
Leadership: Didn't really feel like he had the pull or the gravitas to lead the Avengers, let alone his own team.
Anthony Mackie: Nothing against the man, but I don't think he has leading man charisma. His acting seems forced and wooden. He does wise cracking sidekick very well though. It's really my biggest issue with the character, I don't like the actor.
Writing: Sam has suffered from some pretty mediocre scripts and plots. I don't know if the writers know what to do with him, it's not the characters fault per se but maybe it's just flaws inherent with the character that he's always going to be in Steve's shadow as long as he's Captain America.
It really should have just been Bucky as Captain America.
I was interested in seeing Sam become Cap which is why I started watching FATWS but that show made me dislike his character. The movie also doesn't build on Sam whatsoever and honestly right now I'd be more interested watching an Isaiah Bradley Vietnam War Cap movie than whatever BNW or now any potential new Sam Wilson movie will.
I think the Cap role should be retired. Another issue I find is Sam's character isn't interesting, something that I felt about Steve up until Endgame really but Evan's acting really propped up the character throughout his tenure (+ the writing was good) whereas I think Mackie hasn't been bad but he's not really been good either. I also feel Sam was at his best during TWS and to a lesser extent CW, beyond that his role is too minor or he's the comic relief paired with Bucky. He's also surrounded by a cast of Cap characters that are both more interesting (Bucky, John, Isaiah) and Sebastian, Carl and Wyatt are better actors too in my opinion that uplift their characters even if they're partly affected by mediocre/bad writing. I'd love to see a Disney+ show featuring Isaiah's Cap (Lumbly and a younger actor who can portray him flashbacks to the war) and honestly feel that would be more interesting than what we have now.
He is cool as a quipping sidekick but as THE Captain America? Nah.