The one good outcome of Quantumania

Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania is my personal least favorite MCU film and one of the few MCU films that I genuinely don’t like at all. But I will say that the one good outcome of it is that it led to the end of the MCU’s slump era.

For those who don’t remember, after Quantumania underperformed at the box office and received terrible reviews from critics and audiences, Kevin Feige made this announcement that a “reconstruction” was gonna be happening at Marvel Studios. He said that they were now gonna start slowing down, focusing on quality over quantity, and really take their time on their future films in order to try and get the MCU back on track.

I personally think that he stayed true to his word on that announcement. Ever since then, we’ve gotten some great movies like Guardians 3, Deadpool & Wolverine, Thunderbolts, and Fantastic Four: First Steps. It really does seem like the MCU is slowly getting back on track.

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Commentaires

butterflya822026-01-10 02:41

Yeah I agree. Can’t wait for more movies

roland_right2026-01-10 02:45

Shame it took them two phases to change things

Asleep-Trouble-58252026-01-10 02:47

Soon enough isn’t it

Rman8232026-01-10 03:47

I mean progress doesn’t happen overnight. Especially when there was still projects already done that still needed to be released

eagc72026-01-10 04:56

I mean alot of that stuff was already being worked on before Phase 4 ended. and it wasn't until we were by mid 2022 that it finally hit us....uh-oh things are not going good, but by then alot of Phase 4 was already in the can and alot of Phase 5 was already being filmed and was already written.

Asleep-Trouble-58252026-01-10 02:45

MODOK is why I don’t like this movie

New-Pin-90642026-01-10 02:46

The CGI of him was absolutely abysmal.

Asleep-Trouble-58252026-01-10 02:50

And his origin story was bad

New-Pin-90642026-01-10 02:53

IKR. Having him be Daren from the first Ant Man film was ridiculous. I did love Scott and Hank’s reaction’s when they realized it was him though. It was funny how, just like the audience, they were very confused and think “Oh shit, i forgot about this guy.”

CHRISPYakaKON2026-01-10 02:52

Tbh, I don’t think there’s a great way to translate MODOK to live action

JasonP272026-01-10 03:08

You're right, but maybe a fake robotic face (or even a real one) that looked more like the comics version would have been better. I think it was a mistake to try to make it still look like Darren Cross.

He didn't have to be recognisable. The reveal that he was Darren could have still happened. No one would have cared that he looked so different.

CHRISPYakaKON2026-01-10 08:38

Ehh it still would’ve been rough tbh

iwishiwasnamedragnar2026-01-10 02:47

It’s funny because he was my favorite thing about the movie. Hated pretty much everything else.

Asleep-Trouble-58252026-01-10 02:48

I liked everything else

New-Pin-90642026-01-10 02:49

Oddly enough, Kang was the one thing I liked about the movie. The only times I was actually invested were when he was onscreen.

Yet, at the same time, this was also one of the movie’s biggest issues where it felt more like Kang’s movie instead of Ant Man’s

iwishiwasnamedragnar2026-01-10 02:52

I liked when Kang was on screen but almost entirely due to the fact that I expected him to give the mcu a direction and a commonality for the coming projects. I liked that he symbolized an inevitability that it was leading to. I disliked pretty everything happening in the actual movie though, and even the hype I felt internally ended up being wasted so now I just look back on that with dislike

Any-Transition952026-01-10 03:17

Same. He fits the tone of the movie and the Antman story. If anything, he was the only thing that worked in the movie. I thought the CGI worked for his character.

It's not like idk what comic Modok is like, I've known him from the cartoons. But MCU movies have rarely ever followed 1-1 its comic inspiration when it comes to villains. At least Modok works within the context of this franchise.

People who complain about Modok as the primary reason they dislike the movie just baffles me. The movie had many other glaring problems, talk about missing the forest for the trees.

Currycel78912026-01-10 02:53

The concept art of him was way better than the final product.

metalyger2026-01-10 02:57

I don't understand the hate this gets, it's literally MODOK, he's a giant head in a flying chair. You can't make him not look silly in live action. Similar to Green Lantern, having the odd choice of Hector Hammond, another guy who ends up getting a giant head through comic book shenanigans.

tLM-tRRS-atBHB2026-01-10 02:48

I think phase 4 is still better than most marvel movies.

TheAgmis2026-01-10 02:49

This movie made this sub magically think cinemascore was their opinion

Wooden-Radish-90082026-01-10 03:44

Lol

TheAgmis2026-01-10 03:44

I never heard of that until the movie came out. That’s when I knew online opinion wasn’t credible

Wooden-Radish-90082026-01-10 03:46

That conclusion took you until 2023!!??

TheAgmis2026-01-10 03:48

What

CHRISPYakaKON2026-01-10 02:51

Ant Man 3 is such a weird way to end that trilogy

New-Pin-90642026-01-10 02:54

It honestly felt more like Kang’s movie instead of Ant Man’s

CHRISPYakaKON2026-01-10 02:54

💯

New-Pin-90642026-01-10 02:59

That’s what I think is one of the reasons why this movie didn’t work. It felt like they needed a movie to introduce Kang and just decided to have the 3rd Ant Man film be the one to do it. As a result, the movie tries to have this much darker tone that ultimately ended feeling forced. In my opinion, the Ant Man films are supposed to be these lighthearted and fun comedies for the audience to enjoy in between the big Avengers movies. They’re not supposed to be taken so seriously

Any-Transition952026-01-10 03:08

Funny enough, instead of this being a studio mandate, it was the director Peyton Reed and writer Jeff Loveness who handpicked Kang to be the villain, because they themselves wanted Antman to go up against a bigger villain. After they saw Major's performance, Marvel Studios loved it so much they decide to retrofit him in Loki S1 and upgrade him to be the big bad of the Multiverse Saga since he makes sense thematically. It was only after Quantumania bombed critically and Major's lawsuit that the entire plan was reconsidered.

I believe this was information directly from an interview with the screenwriter Jeff Loveness.

New-Pin-90642026-01-10 03:10

Oh, is that what happened? Sorry, I didn’t know that

labbla2026-01-10 05:06

Yes, if Quantumania had been well liked and profitable they most likely would have just recast Kang. But after that movie Kang will most likely never be mentioned again.

Sylar_Lives2026-01-10 03:27

I disagree. Much of the movies story centered around the dynamic between the Ant-Family and their personal hang ups regarding past mistakes and traumas. Having Darren Cross back in a central role even plays into this.

Fabulous-Sea-15902026-01-10 04:00

And he got bitched by ants.

I liked it a lot more than you, but it didn't quite establish Kang as ≥ Thanos.

I mean, the *idea* is there – as powerful as this guy was, imagine an infinite army of him – but they just didn't sell it.

pigeonwiggle2026-01-10 08:41

Michelle Pfeiffer was the hero.

stratasfear2026-01-10 05:41

I absolutely thought it was going to be a quantum realm heist, where Kang needed him to steal something back from MODOK to power the time ship. That would’ve been the stronger plot and it would’ve tied back into the other two movies a lot better.

Pardybro9112026-01-10 10:15

It was clearly a major set up before the Jonathan Majors debacle derailed everything internally.

I generally enjoy most Marvel stuff but they, for some reason, refuse to just recast characters. It’s bizarre considering they set up an entire multiverse storyline, and then popped RDJ as a whole new character after sunsetting Stark.

Bob_Sve2026-01-11 22:10

Guardians of Galaxy 3 as well.
It didn't do anything for MCU continuity, its just a standalone movie that killed the villain, and people meltdown over animals.

Not sure why people bash on Antman 3, while Guardians of Galaxy 3 gets so much hype

CHRISPYakaKON2026-01-11 23:36

GotG3 fits far better in its trilogy whereas Quantumania doesn’t feel like an Ant-Man movie but rather a movie with Ant-Man and fam in it.

dance4days2026-01-12 17:01

Also Guardians 3 is just a good movie. You can enjoy it whether you’ve seen any other MCU movie or not (although the Gamora stuff might be confusing if you haven’t seen Endgame).

Quantumania fails in a lot of ways, not just because of the context of the rest of the Ant-Man movies.

NbaLiveMobile102026-01-10 02:55

The Marvels and Echo came out within a year after Quantumania's release. I don't think the slump era was quite over after Quantumania

New-Pin-90642026-01-10 02:56

True. But, to be fair, The Marvels was already in production when the announcement of restructuring was made. So it and Brave New World were kinda just the leftovers from the slump era.

buzzedewok2026-01-10 03:22

I liked the Marvels more than Quantumania.

iwannalynch2026-01-10 03:28

Iirc The Marvels suffered from being released during the actor's strike, and they literally couldn't get the actors to promote the film and might have performed better than it did had it not been for the strike

shotbydarrell2026-01-10 09:06

This is what I’ve been saying for years. It would’ve preformed a lot better if they waited to release it after the strike was over.

Defiant_Treacle73102026-01-10 03:41

The marvels wasn't bad

bangarang902102026-01-10 03:51

The Marvels was way better than most give it credit for.

shotbydarrell2026-01-10 09:04

The Marvels was good and Echo just had a very underwhelming ending.

Myhtological2026-01-10 03:03

Okay you know most of those were already in the production before Quatumania even hit theaters right?

New-Pin-90642026-01-10 03:05

I know Guardians 3 was. Deadpool & Wolverine was just about to begin shooting a couple months after the announcement was made. But Thunderbolts and First Steps didn’t begin their productions until after the announcement

Myhtological2026-01-10 03:07

But they were in pre.

New-Pin-90642026-01-10 03:11

True. But I think it was more of the early pre-production phase. So they were able to have the time they needed to really work on their scripts

ShowtimevonParty2026-01-10 03:05

I think its hella sad the ending scene of the movie (not the post credits, the one where scott doubts if they defeated kang) clearly sets up kang as a lingering threat and its very effective but its useless now because bro is not coming back ever

PeterTingle6162026-01-10 07:07

Idk about effective. IMO it was one of the least compelling ways to hint at the future return of the villain, and a poorly executed depiction of a protagonist’s anxiety and doubts about their victory. Very half-assed and felt like a product of reshoots. The council of Kangs scene worked a bit better to set him up for future appearances.

Mizerous2026-01-11 00:27

Effective? It's clearly a nothing burger outside of the goofy council scene.

CockMartins2026-01-10 03:09

That stretch where Quantumania, Love and Thunder and Multiverse of Madness were all disappointing was so fucking brutal. I feel like the MCU never fully recovered but you’re right, they did seem to feel a certain sense of urgency to right the ship after Antman. Not sure it’ll ever feel like the Infinity War days again, but I’m definitely looking forward to everything on the schedule through Secret Wars.

BrotherEstapol2026-01-10 07:52

From what I've seen, all were victims of changing what the film was after filming had started.

Zero conviction. Too scared of test audiences and playing to the average viewer to execute the original vision.

I also question how long was spent on pre-production and if it also party because the script was undercooked to start with, and they didn't even have a clear vision?

Dissapointing regardless, and hopefully they learned lessons from that period!

FictionFantom2026-01-10 03:14

It’s nice to think that they were “focusing on quality over quantity” but I think the truth is they only planned for a certain amount of projects this saga but Secret Wars kept getting delayed.

So rather than adding more movies to the slate that were never intended to come out before the end of the saga, they spun it for good PR. Blade was (and still is) in development hell before any critical or financial misses and Armor Wars was never a fully developed idea.

Paladar22026-01-10 03:15

Meh. I loved Thunderbolts but Brave new world was awful and F4 was very mid imo…

New-Pin-90642026-01-10 03:17

Brave New World was already in development before the announcement of restructuring was made. So I can understand the quality of it not being great. They did try to salvage it though. I’m sure you’ve probably heard the stories of how they had to go back and do reshoots on Brave New World 4 times because they kept getting negative feedback from test screenings

Paladar22026-01-10 03:19

Yeah I did lol. Sadly it still turned out bad, at least in my opinion. All that being said I’m super hyped for Spidey and Doomsday still

BrotherEstapol2026-01-10 07:48

I do wonder what that early version actually looked like, and if it actually was worse.
How many times has there been terrible test screeninga, but they changed barely nothing(no reshoots) and the film was actually good? I know John Wick, 12 Monkeys, and Se7en are examples of this.

I know they are the exception and not the rule, but I can't help but wonder how much of a negative effect test screenings would have on CGI heavy films like BNW. I get that it more than just looks, but they'd have been showing it with unfinished VFX, and that's got to hurt the film.

I wish they'd have some conviction in their vision from the starts, cause that film really felt like the biggest victim of reshoots and rushed release I've ever witness.

Plus that snake society stuff looked sick!

New-Pin-90642026-01-10 07:49

Yeah. I do want to see the original cut of Brave New World. How bad could it possibly have been to the point where they to go back and do reshoots 4 times?

suss2it2026-01-11 04:38

James Gunn did test screenings for *Superman* and they wanted him to get rid of the squirrel saving scene. Luckily he knew how easily that distilled the very essence of the character and kept it in.

jtfjtf2026-01-10 03:18

It was such a strange movie from replacing Cassie, throwing away the Ant Man supporting cast, and then draining Kang of all his aura.

Additional_Ice_3582026-01-10 03:19

Agreed. Huge Marvel fan but what a miss, first time I left actually upset about what I just watched haha. Can't believe that same writer was set for an Avengers movie. That would have destroyed everything they worked for

New-Pin-90642026-01-10 03:23

It’s funny how, after this movie came out, they immediately removed him from writing Avengers 5. Especially since they gave him the job in the first place because they were impressed by his script for this movie.

According to some insider sources, Kevin Feige and the executives at Marvel were very shocked by how poorly received this movie was. They apparently thought that this movie was gonna be well received by fans and be considered a return to form for the MCU.

Additional_Ice_3582026-01-10 03:35

Yeah that was the project where I thought it was time to replace Kevin because even on paper it sounds worse.

While i loved Daredevil, Xmen 97, Deadpool and wolverine and Guardians 3;Thunderbolts was the perfect project where it captured that pure marvel feel of a lived in universe again for me. Fantastic 4 was just the icing on the cake. They can make a crazy comeback this year its all about execution.

AstariaEriol2026-01-14 02:10

Some of the plot felt like something out of a cheesy 90s sci fi movie. Like Mom and Dad Save the World.

Careless_Royal82092026-01-10 03:20

I hated the movie, but yeah, this new direction was a good choice. One thing that bothers me about people criticizing the movie though, is that they say Kang was too easily defeated by Ant-Man and Wasp. But you need to remember, Kang is an Avengers villain! He sucks, and as Avengers mainstays, Ant-Man and Wasp beat him every other month in the comics!

New-Pin-90642026-01-10 03:25

I read somewhere that Scott and Hope were originally going to either die or get left behind in the Quantum realm (i don’t remember which of those 2 that it was) at the end of the film. But audiences in test screenings hated that ending so much that they went back and changed it

Mizerous2026-01-11 00:27

They wanted him as their new Thanos

Heisenburgo2026-01-11 03:10

> Ant-Man and Wasp beat him every other month in the comics!

What may have worked in the comics does NOT necessarily translate over to film format

Careless_Royal82092026-01-11 04:07

That makes no sense.

Heisenburgo2026-01-11 04:21

Exactly my argument, freakin Ant-Man and Wasp beating Kang does NOT make any sense, maybe it does in the comics but not in the movies, as Quantumania's disastrous reception has proven

suss2it2026-01-11 04:35

What’s even one comic where Ant-Man and Wasp beat him? 🤔

Careless_Royal82092026-01-11 04:42

The Avengers #8.

suss2it2026-01-11 04:49

Kang’s first appearance, nice. But no that didn’t happen, they were certainly there and helped jump Kang before being swiftly beaten, it’s actually Thor that beats him and sends him running in that issue.

Bigbigbigrock2026-01-12 04:49

I believe in the art book they mention wanting Scott to beat a major villain to help establish that he's more capable, and they reference him beating a major villain. Specially, Scott beat Doom in a 1v1 before and they wanted to kinda give that energy I think.

igby12026-01-10 03:27

The Infinity saga spoiled fans so much that they expect every MCU film to be great, and for them to be building towards another Endgame-like payoff.

The Infinity saga was lightning in a bottle. It won’t happen again and that’s fine.

Defiant_Treacle73102026-01-10 03:41

Went back n watched it a couple weeks ago n man they really had it n just went in the complete wrong direction. AntMan was suppose to get packed up in his own movie, it was the simple choice. I have no clue what the thought process was for having Kang be defeated

New-Pin-90642026-01-10 03:41

Defiant_Treacle73102026-01-10 03:45

Either of those would've been better imo, leaving them in the Quantum realm probably would've been the best decision but either of those choices would've been better than Kang losing. Also Marvel has to stop listening to the fans, we dont know what we want frfr 😂😂 they need to just tell the story how they feel it should be told and let us argue about it afterwards

eagc72026-01-10 04:52

They were meant to stay stuck there. the writer of the movie did said that one of the factors that lead to the change is that its just a repeat of the last movie ending, Movie 2 Scott gets trapped, then in Movie 3 he gets trapped again

Wooden-Radish-90082026-01-10 03:45

Bro, I can't be the only one that thinks Quantumania is good

smith12812026-01-10 06:28

I liked it, just rewatched it the ther night. Im easy to please mind you and have also never read a comic book in my life. So maybe i dont have the same expectations as others.

RyanRev7272026-01-14 19:33

I saw it more than once in theaters and me and everyone I saw it with liked it 🤷‍♂️

Wooden-Radish-90082026-01-14 20:13

Huh, well that's good to know. I thought I was crazy

Fabulous-Sea-15902026-01-10 04:01

Do you want a sandwich I like to turn off the timer for 5 minutes Alexa turn off the timer

matty_nice2026-01-10 04:19

I just remember how (reportedly) Feige and Marvel thought the movie was great, and they were so surprised why it didnt do well. Lol.

eagc72026-01-10 04:51

Yeah it was in the Reign of Marvel Studios book or in an interview with the author.

Heisenburgo2026-01-11 03:12

Peak Marvel smelling their own farts moment there

ToughAdventurous82092026-01-10 04:35

I liked it.

akhilxcx2026-01-10 05:51

What slump of earlier phases are you talking about op? Because this sub seems to think everything in phase 4 was just underrated or overhated. Everything was just fine.

Defiant_Wheel48882026-01-10 06:11

Quantumania’s main negative is MODOK and how they handle Kang. He was handled well in the *Loki* series. In Season 2 also, they handled him well, both as HWR as well as Victor Timely. In Season 1, Episode 6, he was powerful just by manipulating time. Though it looked funny, it still felt good that he was ahead of time.

In the film, the actor did his best to show through his expressions that he is an evil villain. He often says he killed Thor, but they never show him doing that. The main issue in Phase 4 is that they have more wording than screen presentation. Let me give an example: in *Thor: The Dark World*, the evil dark lord tries to invade Asgard. When Heimdall notices, he uses his secret weapon, which makes the palace have a powerful shield, probably made up of the Tesseract, because in *Age of Ultron* we see the same dome protection at the final HYDRA base. The same thing is shown in *Fantastic Four*. In this, *Fantastic Four* try to put up a shield and then they say a countdown like 10, 9, 8. This feels bad because they are already showing it visually, so they don’t need a voice-over. An uplifting music score like *Thor 2* would have been fine.

MODOK—some VFX experts said they can’t pull better than that in live action, but yeah, I agree. Also, I personally felt that if he did not show his face and instead used that metal look alone, it would have given him a more evil vibe. The reveal of MODOK itself was not surprising; it was more like funny, and both Ant-Man and his daughter made fun of him. We know MODOK is a killing machine. Yes, he always ends up falling and crawling like a baby, but that only happens after his defeat.

Finally, in that film, Kang was defeated by ants, not by Ant-Man alone, and that was literally a negative. He was so powerful in the *Loki* series. They can’t even protect the TVA without his brain scan. Here, in his film, he was not handled well. The only thing the actor did was show angry facial reactions. He somehow beats Ant-Man and then ends up defeated by Ant-Man and ants.He was an Avengers-level threat, not an Avenger-level threat.

In the movie as a whole, one thing that was not acceptable was Kang’s defeat by ants. His suit is from the future. In one of the animated series, Tony Stark tries to hack his chair to understand his power. Though it is never shown that they hacked his suit or his shields, in the film they simply show a group of aged ants, or civilized ants, coming in and blasting his suit into pieces, which is not acceptable.

Though I felt Ant-Man and the other heroes were written well, I also felt there would be very much doubt. A first low box-office Avengers film would be *The Kang Dynasty*, if it ever gets released. This is because Kang was already defeated by the TVA, and Kang was already defeated by Ant-Man. Now again, if a group of Avengers, a team of four, comes to save the world from an evil future scientist, it would make no sense.

BetaRayPhil6162026-01-10 11:36

Rewatched this last night.

Kang *is* a great villain - and his arrogance causing his eventual defeat to Antman (first by Hank's ant army, then by the Antman/Wasp team up) was actually a great angle too. Antman is always under estimated and that's his stength.

I think the movie faltered in not knowing what to do with cassie & janet - janet as the quantum realm guide felt kinda weird, lile they wanted to use MP, but couldnt make her an interesting enough character. And Cassie just didnt do enough to justify her being there (short of motivating scott).

Darren Cross/Yellowjacket as Modok was a strong idea (and the modofk joke was legit funny), but it was royally mishandled by having him as a totally comedic character and not a grotesque body horror version of Cross.

Ideas were there, but it was tonally very unlike the first two. And the size changing aspect is lessened when we arent in our real world playing with scale.

Overall-Gaming782026-01-10 15:32

You're right.

SlashOfLife52962026-01-10 18:54

Kang and Wasp was some actual cinema. And the rest was just fine, but just not the level of hype it needed to be

Electro_Llama2026-01-10 22:50

The main thing I enjoyed about Quantumania was how it portrayed the essence of Ant Man, like how No Way Home portrayed the essence of Spiderman. He's weird and a misfit, friend of other misfits, but embracing the weirdness and using teamwork and determination he can stand up to bigger foes than himself to protect the ones he loves.

Bigbigbigrock2026-01-12 04:50

Like ants! Weird little things that embrace being part of a group to do more together than they ever could alone.

Spider-Man on the other hand is a bit of a tortured soul who operates alone most of the time traditionally.