What If - The Avengers Lost the Battle if New York/ Who would replace the original six avengers?

Let’s say hypothetically the Avengers Fail to win the battle of New York, either they’re overrun by Loki army or Iron man fails to stop the nuke. How do you thinks the mcu timeline would go from here? More importantly who would replace the original six? Right off the bat I assume since War Machine was out of the battle and active around this time, he’d be recruited. Along with Captain Marvel since Fury was on a helicarrier away from the battle and like in some what if episodes would call her in. Plus Black panther was active around this time as well and known somewhat by Shield so I’d say he’s a safe addition as well. Question left is who else could fury could to fill those last 3 slots and how would the rest of the future movies go?

Commentaires

CruzAderjc2026-01-04 10:38

In my headcanon, the Avengers never would have lost the Battle of NY. The Ancient One was constantly turning time back with the Time Stone any time something happened that would make the Avengers lose and she was helping them the whole time. In my headcanon, if those nukes ever had a chance of hitting NYC (and killing her and destroying the Sanctum Santorum), she would have turned back time and/or used a portal to divert the nukes.

Norin_Radd12092026-01-04 11:23

I like that since endgame confirmed she was into battle

LouzyKnight2026-01-04 11:37

She was just protecting her home

CruzAderjc2026-01-04 14:47

But she would have prevented either a total loss to Loki’s army or the government nuking New York, as either of those would have destroyed her home

movieman9942026-01-05 07:19

She was also saving the sacred timeline and knew if one of the stones is lost the timeline branches. Which is why she was hesistant to give Bruce the Time Stone.

Fun-Poet53382026-01-04 12:28

Cool hedacanon, ig.

Brin1822026-01-04 22:11

She + the tva

marvelcomics222026-01-04 10:55

I think that S.H.I.E.L.D. also bring in Melinda May, maybe someone like John Walker or another member of the military, and IDK who the sixth would be.

Southern_Stage_76632026-01-04 11:15

that would destroy the earth, also I really want og avengers back including those who fall. I know it was a good end for them, but i really need them back, since endgame, the hole in my heart cannot be fixed, unless a dream comes true.

MachoViper2026-01-04 14:32

I actually think it was a mistake to lose iron man and Cap. It's why I'm not fussed about Steve Rogers coming back in some capacity.

ddanuu2026-01-04 11:51

Captain Carter would stop them

Fun-Poet53382026-01-04 12:27

Carol might get called back earlier than 2018.

ubutterscotchpine2026-01-04 15:53

Yeah this seems like a no brainer. Eventually you’d also have Dr. Strange, Ant-Man, Wasp, etc.

MaximusArael0202026-01-04 15:59

Dr. Strange would be dead if the nuke went off, yeah? He was still in NYC at the time of the battle of New York.

PlainSightMan2026-01-04 16:03

I think just have Tony be stuck in space instead like in the What If episode. So the nuke doesn't go off.

ubutterscotchpine2026-01-04 16:11

Fair. So take him out of the equation lol. How far do you think the blast would’ve gone? Definitely losing Daredevil, Peter Parker, and little Kate Bishop too. Kamala too since I would assume Jersey City is gone.

Wanda and Pietro are still out there, so potentially still a chance to turn them good. Iron Patriot/Rhodey too, especially with the loss of Iron Man.

j--__2026-01-04 20:00

wanda and pietro aren't superpowered if hydra doesn't get loki's scepter.

ubutterscotchpine2026-01-04 20:37

Isn’t it pointed out that Wanda was always magic before the scepter?

j--__2026-01-04 23:23

agatha says the infinity stone "amplified what would have otherwise died on the vine".

shame on all the false fans upvoting bad information more than good.

MemeHermetic2026-01-06 17:01

However, I don't know that would be true. She's a prophesied "Scarlet Witch", so I get the feeling something would have nudged her to her final form.

j--__2026-01-06 18:05

we don't know whether that prophecy would have even allowed the avengers to lose the battle of new york. the avengers winning the battle of new york is a demonstrated part of how wanda was actually 'nudged' to her 'final' form in the timeline we have. we also don't actually know whether it could have turned out to be someone else if events had unfolded differently. we only know that wanda ever coming across an infinity stone was highly unlikely, and that the way in which it happened was due to hydra's experiments with loki's scepter.

chris-can-fly2026-01-08 06:51

Straight up most of the mcu heros are dead in that world , so many are just from {and would have been in} New York City or nearby, it also would have killed Luke and Jessica. Punisher would be alive for what it's worth, granted it's jon Bertnthals punisher, so.

ubutterscotchpine2026-01-08 12:56

Yeah lol I feel like that’s the most unrealistic thing about the mcu honestly. A dozen vigilante superheroes are from the tristate area and you’re telling me they’ve literally never met? Ever?

b00st3d2026-01-04 19:33

The Sorcerer Supreme would still be alive though, so she’d probably be able to help if she was willing (not sure if she would be)

Christopher_Home2026-01-04 19:33

Wouldn't the Ancient One save him?

luvu3330002026-01-05 11:10

if strange was supposed to die in that timeline the ancient one wouldn't find the sorceror supreme in him. it would be mordo or wong and they would be saved without anyone's intervention ancient one saw that coming

onepostandbye2026-01-05 04:17

Not necessarily. He travels a lot.

MaximusArael0202026-01-05 04:19

In Endgame they travel back to the Battle of New York, and when Smart Hulk approaches the Ancient One asking about Dr. Strange, she tells him that Strange is in a surgical suite a few blocks away, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

onepostandbye2026-01-05 04:20

No, you got that right. Cheers!

HanTrollo7102026-01-05 00:18

Mordo would have been more likely than Strange.

First of all, if the Avengers fell, there’s no one to stop the nuke or the Chitauri. So Strange is dead one way or the other.

Mordo seemed like one of the more proactive sorcerers. And if the Ancient One was already shown to be active during the Battle of New York, there are almost certainly other sorcerers deployed elsewhere.

Scott Lang Antman is pretty unlikely if Loki won that day as well. Even if New York got nuked, the Chitauri had a lot more numbers on the other side of the portal. So the conquest of Earth would have continued.

So the likelihood of Loki or eventually Thanos of allowing new heroes to rise would be very slim.

Janet was still MIA, and Hank wouldn’t last long solo. So Scott and Hope are probably either dead or enslaved.

rohithkumarsp2026-01-05 18:27

They even had her a stand in at the end of age of ulotrn

https://youtu.be/Zop4HvnatVg?si=Y3f_ah0gOKmifCP2

LordLoss012026-01-04 16:27

The fact that Carol wasn't called back anyway in 2012 will still remain a massive plot hole to me.

Federal-Captain11182026-01-04 18:34

Fury didn't want to rely on Carol. He wanted a team. He didn't call her on purpose.

If shit got incredibly out of hand and Fury realized he was wrong, then yeah he would've called.

Affectionate-Day83072026-01-04 22:21

Yeah no, it's why i hate retroactively inserting prequels. Captain Marvel would have made more sense if she was presumed dead at the end of the film or something else.

Federal-Captain11182026-01-04 22:25

Hate it or not It's the explanation

OnlinePosterPerson2026-01-05 21:55

Sure but it does stretch plausibility though. A full scale alien invasion was coming. If Tony hadn’t stopped the nuke and NYC was atomized, it would have been on Fury for not calling in Danvers

Bored-of-this2026-01-04 13:30

You'd have May, Bobbi, Captain Marvel, Rhodey, Wasp. Hydra would probably have the winter solider out killing aliens too but not with the avengers

GoodShark2026-01-04 15:29

You'd probably still have Hulk too. A nuke wouldn't kill him, would it? And potentially Thor?

chris-can-fly2026-01-08 07:03

Yah hulk and Thor would be fine, or well, hulk would be fine, Thor would probably be in rough shape

LexiYoung2026-01-04 22:53

Who is May and bobbi

Tdk19842026-01-04 23:55

Agent Melinda May, and Bobbi Morse (Mockingbird) from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

StudderButter2026-01-06 22:23

Both amazing in the show

HanTrollo7102026-01-05 00:19

Probably not Wasp. Janet was still stuck in the Quantum Realm. And Hank had not made a suit for Hope.

HanTrollo7102026-01-04 13:36

This kinda breaks down into two parts. There have to be a group to help save NYC/Earth, then there’s the recruits after the fact.

I’m going to say that War Machine, Matt Murdock, Jessica Jones, Wong, Mordo and a group of soldiers led by Frank Castle continue the fight on the spot before Loki has a change of heart after Thor’s death to finally turn the tide.

After the fact Jess, Matt and Mordo decline to join. Loki voluntarily accepts a prison sentence.

Fury calls Carol back to Earth to lead the team

Rhodey stays to honor Tony

Wong joins to help protect the protectors of Earth

Lady Sif comes to Midgard to avenge her prince

Luke Cage joins under the promise that his criminal record is voided and he gets a clean second chance

Melinda May comes out of retirement to honor Nat and Clint

Justin Hammer is given a chance to work off his debt by basically providing tech support for the team while on a SHIELD version of house arrest.

And Frank Castle, whose family is still three years away from dying, is chosen to pick up the shield and become the new Captain America.

LewisRyan2026-01-04 13:45

Hold on.

If Thor was killed by the American government, odins coming down to handle business.

I don’t care what team fury puts together, they’re not beating Odin

HanTrollo7102026-01-04 13:47

I’m assuming Thor was killed by the Chitari horde

LewisRyan2026-01-04 13:47

Ohhh that makes more sense since I didn’t think a nuke would kill thor

HanTrollo7102026-01-04 13:57

The nuke was what ended the battle. So in my scenario, it was redirected by Wong and his sling ring.

luvu3330002026-01-05 11:27

if a nuke cant the chittauri cant kill him either.

HanTrollo7102026-01-06 02:47

They had virtually endless numbers, even Odin almost fell in the battle against the vastly superior numbers of Jotuheim. Enough leviathans and even the god of thunder could have fallen.

luvu3330002026-01-07 15:23

Hm. The chitauri is an amazing plot device and it's interesting how mcu never showed more about them except a purposeless warrior race that Thanos exploited. They were the perfect minions and the only complaint I have with Eternals is it didn't show any history of mcu despite taking place all through the history...

Real_Walk53842026-01-05 02:11

Loki beat Odin.

LewisRyan2026-01-05 10:36

Ehhhhh

Loki tricked a weakened, relaxed, unprepared Odin.

We’re talking about an Odin looking to avenge his son and heir.

Groot7462026-01-05 15:48

Not in a physical fight he didn't

HanTrollo7102026-01-06 02:53

Odin was nearly defeated in the war against the Jotuns. They had superior number and the power of The Casket of Ancient Winters. It cost The Allfather his eye and nearly his life.

Loki has virtually limitless numbers of Chitauri soldiers and a fleet of Leviathans. And he had the power of two Infinity Stones. Thor was definitely vulnerable.

rvdp662026-01-04 15:34

Damn. That's like a whole what if season 3. They should have paid you.

HanTrollo7102026-01-04 17:10

They still can. I’d accept their money

Maximus3612026-01-04 13:44

The Thunderbolts, of course!!!

ActuallyNotJesus2026-01-05 08:16

Yelena, Taskmaster and Bucky are still brainwashed. US Agent doesn't exist yet. Not sure if Fury knows about Ghost or if she'd even care. I think Red Guardian is definitely possible to avenge his daughter though.

Meizas2026-01-04 14:16

Jessica Jones, Ancient One, Rhodey, Carol Danvers

I can't remember if Daredevil was active, Iron Fist was away, and Luke Cage was in prison

HanTrollo7102026-01-05 00:22

Matt was just getting started before The Incident. He was still wearing the black clothes and beating up petty criminals.

But there’s no way even early Matt wouldn’t join in a fight for the whole city.

In my mind, since the attack happened during the day, Matt was in a suit and rescuing civilians in Hell’s Kitchen.

EarthboundMan52026-01-04 15:33

Carol, Rhodey, Hank Pym, Bill Foster, The Ancient One, and Mockingbird (Laura Barton)

HanTrollo7102026-01-05 00:22

Bill Foster is an underrated pull.

ActuallyNotJesus2026-01-05 08:14

We also know Hank Pym had a suit for Hope as well as his own that he used in the What If episode. What be around the same timeframe too

rubickknowsbest2026-01-04 17:02

The ancient one since she was lado in the battle

Geshtar12026-01-04 17:19

Whether or not the nuke went off would be the deciding factor on what happens next. Have the chitauri taken over earth?

You’ve got the ancient one and captain marvel, assuming the ancient one doesn’t get blown up by the nuke. Black Panther, eventually Dr strange if he’s not blown up. Same with spider man.

MMFRESHSW22026-01-04 18:01

the Wakandans & Namor's people Capt marvel Moonnight Sentry

HanTrollo7102026-01-05 00:25

It would have been T’Chaka at the time. But seeing him in action would have been not only badass, but also the perfect chance to cast Denzel

Abides19482026-01-04 18:32

You think Loki would allow avengers after he takes the Midgard throne?

RalphMacchio4042026-01-04 18:45

Hulk and maybe Thor would survive a nuke. Add in Ant Man, Wasp, Capt. Marvel, War Machine, a possible version of Wanda (and maybe Pietro), maybe Falcon and thats about it. Vision, Spiderman, Dr. Strange, Ms. Marvel, Photon, Wanda's kids, and more just never would have been. Bucky and Yelena would still be trapped.

HanTrollo7102026-01-05 00:23

Hulk definitely survived a nuke, but there’s no way he could solo the entire invading horde

RalphMacchio4042026-01-05 00:47

Not solo. But survive by escaping or something.

Obskuro2026-01-05 17:10

Wanda and Pietro seem unlikely, unless Wanda "magically" unlocked their powers on her own. They wouldn't have been in Hydra's program, cause that required Loki's sceptre.

RalphMacchio4042026-01-05 18:17

In Wandavision they show her powers working, slightly, before the stone. So, who knows?

Obskuro2026-01-05 19:35

Maybe enough to save her and Pietro in another moment of mortal danger, but not enough to get her on Fury's radar, I think. Let's say they still try to get powers to take revenge, then they might end up stumbling upon the magical world on their own. Worst-case scenario? Agatha finds them first and tricks Wanda into the Witches' Road.

RalphMacchio4042026-01-05 20:14

Witches road only exists due to Billy. But I think Wanda would have developed eventually. Not as strong as quickly but she would have been more along the lines of how she was in the comics. Messing with probabilities which could lead to Quicksilver getting powers.

Obskuro2026-01-05 20:53

I meant Agatha tricking Wanda into her fake ritual, and then stealing her powers.

RalphMacchio4042026-01-05 23:08

Ah...gotcha.

medyas12026-01-04 19:06

nobody

TVA prunes/pruned/will prune the timeline to ensure sacred timeline only

after he who remains' "abdication", other possible answers in the thread

waseem3352026-01-04 19:29

Shame Disney doesn't have the balls to do these kind of stories instead its "what if Agatha went to Hollywood...."

ComradeJJaxon2026-01-08 22:08

ngl that episode was so bad i hated it. But everything else was very enjoyable.

arc070419902026-01-04 19:29

who cares

Dragon_yum2026-01-04 19:51

Six Captain Carters of the writers of What If has any say in the matter.

fisheggsoup2026-01-04 22:59

The TVA would have jumped in and pruned the timeline since this isn't how it was supposed to happen, per Kang.

Aside from that, HYDRA may have been successful in their takeover, but even if not, Bucky is never freed.

There would not have been an Age of Ultron (no Tony or Bruce), hence no Sokovia Accords, or at least a substantial delay of them, so Civil War doesn't occur to split the team up. T'Chaka doesn't get assassinated as there's no Zemo exacting revenge against anybody and no Crossbones blowing himself up in Lagos, so Wakanda doesn't really have any reason to get involved -- no Black Panther.

Thanos would have an even easier time as nobody is tracking his looming threat; Stephen sees a different future to potentially defeating him in the long run, but in all likelihood, The Snap occurs and is never undone.

This event lasting likely means no future incursions via Kang or Doom.

SilentXMedia2026-01-05 02:41

Cpt. Marvel, Rhodey, T’Chaka (?), Brock Rumlow/Crossbones, Isaiah Bradley????

ActuallyNotJesus2026-01-05 08:18

Lokey forgot about Crossbones being an option at that time

InevitableWeight3142026-01-05 05:57

Probably Antman, War Machine, Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Wasp.

Maybe Namor and Falcon tbh

ActuallyNotJesus2026-01-05 08:12

Let's assume the nuke goes off so everyone in New York is dead. We'd have no Spider-Man, Defenders, Kate Bishop, Punisher or Ms. Marvel. Lota of heroes would also never have a chance to become heroes either like Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Dr Strange, Vision, or Photon.

No Eternals, Guardians, Shang-Chi, Ancient One, Moon Knight, or Black Panther since Fury doesn't know they exist.

Likely no Yelena, Taskmaster or other Widows since they'd be under mind control. Same goes for Bucky.

Doesn't leave very many options but I'll try.

1. War Machine
He's already an active hero and wasn't at the Battle of New York. Has knowledge of Stark's armour and is an obvious pick. He'd likely be one of the first to get a call from Fury.

2. Captain Marvel
Another obvious pick, Fury has her contact and this would be an absolute emergency.

3. An agent of S.H.I.E.L.D
Fury had Hawkeye and Black Widow on the original team. I'm sure he would have backups in mind in case of emergency. I don't really know much of the show so I'm not sure who would be active and out of New York at the time. Maybe Mockingbird or Quake? You could also probably lump in Falcon here as an option since he already has the wingsuit and Fury would know about him.

4. Ant-Man/Wasp
Fury would probably contact Hank Pym about getting someone in the suit. Hank used to be S.H.I.E.L.D. so Fury would know of him. I'm sure if New York was wiped out, Hank would be willing to forget old grudges and either suit up himself or ask Hope. We know he already has a suit for her ready anyways. We also know he's capable to use the suit from that What If episode in the same timeframe.

5. Red Guardian
I imagine Fury would know he's Natasha's adoptive father and that Guardian would want revenge. Natasha broke him out of prison easily so who's to say Fury wouldn't go down that road?

6. Anybody else lol
There's not many other options for heroes at this part of the timeline and in this scenario. Maybe Abomination for some muscle? Blade is allegedly out there too. Or maybe just another agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Grayx_28872026-01-05 08:16

This should have been an actual episode of the Marvel *"What If...?"* series.

Obvious-Water5692026-01-05 11:32

The Ancient One could have probably helped.

Vitaminwatertime2026-01-05 13:16

For more clarity on the scenario I’m presenting since admittedly I didn’t explain it well in the post. New York Gets nuked, and 4 of the original six are instantly gone. As for Thor and hulk either dead or heavily weakened and or captured. So the original six are out of the picture, just be nice to Loki let’s say he somehow able to survive. I saw this mentioned in the comments but the idea the ancient one would use the time stone to undo everything a neat idea and honestly lead me head-canon she did kept redoing the battle till the avengers win. But for the sake of having a scenario, let’s say she dies in the blast before she could use the time stone, and the portal allowing Loki army isn’t closed allowing eventually the Chitauri Command Center Ship(The One Tony Nuke in the movie) to enter earth, Going off those perimeters how does the timeline go from there, and who goes on to replace the original six?

nocturnalfrolic2026-01-05 15:20

Carol returns earlier as expected.

Government initiates its X-Factor program as the new "Avengers" team.

New York in ruins. Loki died in nuclear explosion.

*Latveria makes a move.*

DOOM KILLS THE WHOLE X-FACTOR! DOOM KILLS CAPT. MARVEL!

DOOM REINTRODUCED PROJECT INSIGHT MODIFIED ALGORITHM TO HIS DOOMBOTS! DOOMBOTS KILLS ALL POTENTIAL HEROES!

DOOM TOOK OVER WASHINGTON!

TVA goes wtf. Dooms messing with the sacred timeline. Attempts to intervene.

DOOM SOMEHOW TAKES OVER TVA!

DOOM TAKES OVER THE WORLD!

ALL HAIL DOOM!

ToDandy2026-01-05 17:39

The old guns. Carol Danvers, Hank Pym’s Ant-Man, Hulk likely would survive because he is nearly impossible to kill, Hope may become wasp sooner, Falcon was around but inactive, Wakanda and Black Panther may step in, as well as the Ancient One. War Machine would avenge Tony. Sif may come to earth to avenge Thor.

accidentsneverhappen2026-01-05 18:32

Captain Marvel, Hank Pym, T'chaka, Namor, the Ancient One, Red Guardian

No-Juice33182026-01-06 00:04

Captain Marvel, War Machine, Black Panther, Loki, Scarlet Witch, and Quicksilver

The fitst three seem like clear an easy picks.

I actually think Loki would end up joining the team. He grandstands about killing his brother but I think if he actually did it it would break him and through convoluted plot he'd end up an Avenger to atone.

For Wanda and Pietro, I think, with Tony dead, the grudge might morph into a desire to one up him by being better heroes and not dying

SuperBubbles20032026-01-07 00:03

Winter soldier is rented by the gov, hank pym and bill foster come out of retirement, Ava Starr is activated by shield, Carol is called to earth early, Lady Sif and the Warriors 3 or Heimdal come to earth to avenge Thor and stop Loki, Odin even might help out. The eternals are also activated to step in by Arishem since the massive casualties caused by the invasion would drastically set back the emergence. All the black Widows in service would also activate and I’m sure the 5 extra winter soldiers would be in effect as well. The nova Corp might even pitch in, but that’s a maybe if Ronan isn’t actively fucking their ship up in the process.

Clamsadness2026-01-07 00:44

If his Avengers team failed, Fury hits the pager and calls back Captain Marvel. He probably gets Talos directly into the fight. Rhodey would come in with the War Machine armor. Hank Pym probably suits up as Ant-Man. I do think we’d see a surprise hero turn after Thanos arrives and when Thor is dead, Loki would feel betrayed by Thanos when half the planet starts getting slaughtered and he would feel sad after Thor was killed. The others wouldn’t trust him, but Loki has had a redemption arc in at least 2 timelines and could do it again.

BILBO_THE_PLATYPOOS2026-01-07 23:50

To be honest, I feel like the US military could take them on

ComradeJJaxon2026-01-08 22:07

I really enjoyed the what if show. Endless possibilities. Creative freedom. Wish they would have make it run longer with more episodes per season. The art style etc. was also very enjoyable to look at. The first couple episodes of season 1 might be bad but 85% afterwards was great. Especially every seasons last couple episodes.