[THEORY] THE GRAND PRUNING: The "Suppressed Doom" Theory
Just to be clear, I’m not saying Marvel has already said this—I’m just connecting the dots to bridge the gap. This is the best way to justify the RDJ casting using the rules we already have.
1. THE MECHANISM (B-15 LOGIC)
Just as TVA agents were brainwashed into new lives (like Hunter B-15 becoming Dr. Willis), He Who Remains (HWR) took the Multiverse’s most dangerous threat—Victor Von Doom—and "re-coded" him into the life of "Tony Stark."
Tony Stark was the cage.
Iron Man was the lock.
Tony’s "heroism" wasn't free will; it was programming. HWR needed a genius to stop Thanos, so he scripted Doom’s intellect into a heroic mold.
2. THE GLITCH (AGE OF ULTRON EVIDENCE)
Wanda Maximoff’s mind powers caused a mechanical failure in the enchantment.
The Vision: Tony didn't see the future; he saw the unsuppressed memories of his true self—the "Man of Destruction." * The Ultron Impulse: His frantic creation of Ultron was a desperate, subconscious attempt to regain the "Doom" control he felt he was missing.
3. THE SACRIFICE (THE DISPOSAL)
Tony's death in Endgame was the final line of the script. HWR knew that if Tony lived past that point, the enchantment would break and Doom would return.
The Snap: This wasn't a choice; it was "trash disposal" for a variant HWR was done with.
Strange’s Role: Dr. Strange saw the truth. He knew Tony had to die to kill the variant before the monster woke up.
4. THE SHADOW PLAYER (GOD EMPEROR DOOM)
While other versions were caged as "Tony," there is a God Emperor Doom in the shadows of the multiverse. He stayed away using his intelligence—not just waiting, because that isn't the Doom way. He has been preparing everything to strike back, gathering resources and knowledge under the radar, just looking for Kang to lose his grip.
5. THE REVENGE (AVENGERS: DOOMSDAY)
Now that the Loom is destroyed and HWR is gone, the "Script" is dead. The enchantment has lifted. The "True Doom" (RDJ) is back, fueled by narcissistic rage. He looks at the monuments to Iron Man and sees only a "monument to a slave." He knows the world didn't love Tony Stark; they loved the leash Kang put on him.
TL;DR: Tony Stark was a Victor Von Doom variant "re-coded" by He Who Remains because Doom was too dangerous to be left awake. Tony’s "sacrifice" was a scripted disposal. While this happened, a "True Doom" stayed in the shadows, gathering knowledge and waiting for Kang to lose his grip. Now the script is dead, and the Man of Destruction has stopped playing his part.
1. THE MECHANISM (B-15 LOGIC)
Just as TVA agents were brainwashed into new lives (like Hunter B-15 becoming Dr. Willis), He Who Remains (HWR) took the Multiverse’s most dangerous threat—Victor Von Doom—and "re-coded" him into the life of "Tony Stark."
Tony Stark was the cage.
Iron Man was the lock.
Tony’s "heroism" wasn't free will; it was programming. HWR needed a genius to stop Thanos, so he scripted Doom’s intellect into a heroic mold.
2. THE GLITCH (AGE OF ULTRON EVIDENCE)
Wanda Maximoff’s mind powers caused a mechanical failure in the enchantment.
The Vision: Tony didn't see the future; he saw the unsuppressed memories of his true self—the "Man of Destruction." * The Ultron Impulse: His frantic creation of Ultron was a desperate, subconscious attempt to regain the "Doom" control he felt he was missing.
3. THE SACRIFICE (THE DISPOSAL)
Tony's death in Endgame was the final line of the script. HWR knew that if Tony lived past that point, the enchantment would break and Doom would return.
The Snap: This wasn't a choice; it was "trash disposal" for a variant HWR was done with.
Strange’s Role: Dr. Strange saw the truth. He knew Tony had to die to kill the variant before the monster woke up.
4. THE SHADOW PLAYER (GOD EMPEROR DOOM)
While other versions were caged as "Tony," there is a God Emperor Doom in the shadows of the multiverse. He stayed away using his intelligence—not just waiting, because that isn't the Doom way. He has been preparing everything to strike back, gathering resources and knowledge under the radar, just looking for Kang to lose his grip.
5. THE REVENGE (AVENGERS: DOOMSDAY)
Now that the Loom is destroyed and HWR is gone, the "Script" is dead. The enchantment has lifted. The "True Doom" (RDJ) is back, fueled by narcissistic rage. He looks at the monuments to Iron Man and sees only a "monument to a slave." He knows the world didn't love Tony Stark; they loved the leash Kang put on him.
TL;DR: Tony Stark was a Victor Von Doom variant "re-coded" by He Who Remains because Doom was too dangerous to be left awake. Tony’s "sacrifice" was a scripted disposal. While this happened, a "True Doom" stayed in the shadows, gathering knowledge and waiting for Kang to lose his grip. Now the script is dead, and the Man of Destruction has stopped playing his part.
Commentaires
You pretty clearly missed the whole point of the story if you thought that that was Jedi were fundamentally instead of just them at their weakest/lowest point. Luke was instead a return to their original, noble origins, shedding the bad and retaining the good.. which makes them trying to repeat the plot in the new trilogy by making Luke being part of the old 'bad' order that needs to be replaced by the new one an odd decision.
And while you might argue that 'why care about destroying the jedi books if those jedi were flawed' - well, the jedi had books and knowledge from thousands or tens of thousands of years of history covering a broad selection of fields, and from times when the Jedi have filled tons of different roles in the galaxy, both good and bad, and had lots of both useful force techniques and histories and philosophy to think about. You don't go destroying libraries because recent authors put some trashy books in there..
You also don't go destroying history in general when you're trying to learn from the mistakes of your predecessors and make something better.
But you're 100% right, TLJ has been very divisive across the fanbase.
And back to your original point, I agree with that. I don't see Marvel telling us that everything we thought we knew about the Tony Stark we'd been watching for the better part of a decade is wrong. That's just not the kind of thing they're known to do, for a number of reasons, not the least of which being it would be quite convoluted to try and explain it.
With HWR gone and the script broken, the true Doom is no longer contained and is ready to reclaim his identity and take revenge.
summarise of what he said. honestly i feel, its agatha all along script hahahaha
Not dump a copypasted word salad.
But I don't know, I've found it you're *too* neat you get accused of using ChatGPT by the AI police
Also explains why no fantastic 4 in 616. Doom/Tony + Reed = ultra competitive drive to advance no matter the cost. Doom/Tony + Steve Rogers though pushes him to compete morally pushing him away from the doom nature.
If you consider the reverse snap a canon event you can see how getting Doom to the point where he does it and dies right after being almost a natural response to this Steve driven moral growth whereas Doom driven to a more advanced tech with Magic instead becomes scarred and survives with rage and a new drive to control.
Hunter b15 ??? Seen in loki
Connectedness to age of ultron (im not sain nor preplanned, but now , could say it was foreshadowing...for the sake of making reasonable)
Mutiversal war clearly mentioned in loki series
I just introduced doom theree...
But yeah it effects alot to tonys character(and its most important), i'll give you that...
That part needs to be done better ....otherwise connecting the dot makes sense
I know the Russos said RDJ would be playing "Victor von Doom", but I reckon they never said that Victor von Doom would not be a Stark variant or something. For all we know, that's just what his von Doom parents named him after finding him somewhere, even tho his birth name is still Tony Stark. Plus, the Russos have lied before, they said Avengers 4 would not be called Endgame.
I just tried to connect the dots with existing story..thats it..i didnt said it was preplanned
They didn't have Endgame planned when they made the first avengers movie but they both fit together narratively.
Also explains how we did not see even a single Tony Stark variant in any of the multiverse saga media.
The Seventh Illuminati Throne in 838 Universe was also left empty on purpose. From the comics this throne belonging to either to either Tony Stark or Doctor Doom is very very high.
We saw multiple in What If.
I don’t know if you noticed but they completely pivoted away from the Kang plot.
But you cant just show in a movie "oh anyway then DOOOM appears out of nowhere"...there must be a solid reason for doom to appear...so i tried to connect things with existing storylines....anyways the prblm here they didnt build doom like thanos...doomsday is the starting point ,f4 scene just shows him...indicating he has come...but we need to know why he came right.????....thats wt i tried to connect....it may have mistakes..just my version
Also, villains show up with no prior appearances all the time. Practically every Marvel villain shows up for the first time in the movie they are the bad guy in.
You wrote some nice fan fiction I’ll give you that. But there is no chance at all they are going to make Kang/HWR a main plot point. It is extremely likely he won’t be mentioned or even hinted it.
Avengers we got to know hes behind loki to get tesseract....
Gotg 1.....in age of ultron ...."fine , i'll do it myself"....this alone is enough for audience to grasp thanos as a greater threat in near future back then....it shows his grand scale of his fear across the universe....opening scene of infinity war got perfectly blended with it.....but if we do a similar thing in doomsday we will have alot of questions...first one where f#k he came from and why he looks like tonyy ....
I tried to justify using my own vision ..
Anway marvel need to answer these in the movie before going further
- I don't think they would undermine the hero that started it all this fundamentally. A variant that looks like Tony but is otherwise not connected to him makes more sense. There's no need to explain why there's a Johnny Storm variant that looks like Steve Rogers. It's ultimately the exact same deal. Or it could even be that Doom is a Stark on one side and a certain kinda Latverian on the other. For all we know, Doom could be magically using the image of a fallen hero just to manipulate everyone, and there's really a totally unrelated Victor under there, and they never reveal what he really looks like behind his mask or this "mask".
- In-universe, if a threat of Doom was so large in this kinda way, HWR could've just pruned or executed any Tony or Doom ever created. He had control of everything. I really don't think Thanos was a high enough threat to risk a multiverse Doom threat to take out Thanos. imo the way Loki defeated HWR is precisely why a threat like this Doom is now possible. It unlocked infinite possibilities, with new threats even he had no idea about. I mean the fact that it isn't even a Kang who's the big bad of the multiverse shows Doom wasn't what he was worried about. Although Doom could be a Kang.
Personally, I'd rather it be that HWR only knew what would happen up til Loki outmaneuvers him.
2.yeah in mutiverse there are infinite numbers of possibilities...i just tried to connect current situation...
Kang gone doom appears suddenly...i tried to connect them in my own vision ....pruning thingg....not every doom could be pruned coz hes smart as hell like reeds...even sylvie survived decades with nexus event .....doom could hide ..but couldn't strike backkk....something like that
Idk man, i hope they justify all this with a good reason
Let me explain, Doom is from the first sacred timeline, we are now on the 616th version. He was able to write doom out completely by adjusting the course of time to never create the F4.
Though the original timeline, where doom escaped was the hero who sacrificed himself in his Endgame but he survived, adding to his snap his own survival. Kang tried to quickly prune it/scrap it but not before Doom was able to leave.
Now Doom wants his reality back and believes he can do it if he kidnaps Eternity, Franklin Richards and other powered children plus HWR but he doesn't realize he's dead.
Doom was the space craft that was escaping through the universe black holes in season 1 episode 6.
If we're doing movie theories, I think they're setting up for either >!Pedro Pascal!< or >!John Krasinski!< to be >!the Maker!< as one of the next big villains. >!I think Krasinski's Reed Richards is the most likely candidate and that he was possibly already the Maker in his universe. He created his perfect world, but had it ruined by Wanda. Now, to rebuild another perfect world, he's going to start culling other realities to take the parts he wants. I know he was ripped apart in MoM, but in some variations of Mr. Fantastic, he can heal rapidly and pull himself together after being severely injured. The only reason I think it could be Pascal is due to how detached from reality his version of Richards was.!<
Retroactively turning one of the most beloved characters of the franchise into a villain who only did the things we love him for because of programming.... that will never ever happen. Even Marvel aren't bone-stupid enough to do something that would be met with universal hatred.
Love the theory and would give Doom something to struggle with: I was loved, I was good. Constantly questioning if the „cage“ wasn’t a better option. Eventually leading to a Stark variant that becomes a hero without the programming to actually oppose him.
"Let everyone fill in the blanks in their own way, it would make the experience richer"
And reveal something in the sequel
Doom should be a new character simply played by a familiar face for audience reaction and nostalgia.
Russos have my trust!!!!
It would be cringy, lazy and it would be a trope of a familiar face returning as a villain with no memories which SUUUUCKKSS
GIVE US SOMETHING NEWWW
I dont mine shoulde used....but there shd be a explanation for same face and why doom replaced kang...
If kang is being viped out like it never existed...
Its a disrespect of loki series , which is infact arguably one of the best piece of media marvel has ever produced
The casting reveal for RDJ in my opinion is just a major cash cow attempt. They know Endgame levels of hype can't be achieved with the crap they have provided to the audience in this last phase of movies- so it's better to bring someone who has a connection to the fans. As for his role- RDJ's Stark has a major character identity that fans truly love. His arc was beautifully brought to an end. To reopen that arc and make it all seem worthless at this point is not something the Russos will probably do.
As for my prediction- I feel his face is just gonna be a shock and awe stuff that the Russos would use like- "oh shit, doom is stark?"- but in the way they form the character of Doom, they will draw a very thick line between Stark's legacy and Doom. The only thing being similar would be the face. Stark's legacy set up many of the things we will now be seeing. To mess with it would cause some serious frickin backlash and maybe end Marvel's chances to try their hands at Secret Wars. (ik I'm stating the obvious here but here you go)
Tony‘s “death” was the “go signal” for Doom’s takeover. Doom’s awakening. Hence “Doomsday”. If I were Feige, the Russos and the writers, I would do it this way even if it means betraying us fans of what Ironman had accomplished all throughout the years. Because this is Doom we’re talking about. Doom would do everything for total control.
This is what will make the movie the biggest plot twist on the entire history of cinema. There will be heartbreaks, yes, but we’ll still see the heroes we loved and we’ll see them puzzled, betrayed, sad, angry, many kinds of emotions, and we’ll see them actually fight for their lives. We will see them die too, and that will make the movie memorable more than ever.
To make people happy, I would introduce an Ironman from a different universe to help our heroes fight the traitor Doom. The REAL Tony Stark. Or maybe Iron Lad With Ty Simpkins? Please, right?
Anyway, this is just my theory. I would like Marvel to have the balls to pull this off. Because I think making Doom coming from a different universe with RDJ’s face is super lame and won’t have a huge impact.
Lets w8 and see anyways
I just meant is , wt i said are pure facts from canon and connected it
I'd rather they go the other way and have Tony be the Victor Von Doom that ended up a hero, partially because of the things HWR did to the timeline but also because of the unique set of circumstances that Tony experienced like his parents dying, the events of Iron Man 1, his bond with his specific Avengers team and especially Cap challenging him about never being the one to make the sacrifice play, him actually facing Bucky and somewhat forgiving or at least understanding that he was mind controlled at the end of the day, him having a daughter etc. I think that would be more emotional while explaining why VVD looks like RDJ at the same time.
refer old artcle: [https://www.ottplay.com/news/robert-downey-jr-confirms-doctor-doom-not-tony-stark-variant/f823904e24292](https://www.ottplay.com/news/robert-downey-jr-confirms-doctor-doom-not-tony-stark-variant/f823904e24292)
I don't know how much his face is going to show, because Doom should ideally be hiding his face as much as possible, but it's RDJ, so his contrast must definitely say his face has to be visible for a certain time duration. People like spidey, thor, etc will just see him and be shocked "Tony!?" kinda reaction but then move on with the fight.
I low key don't want there to be any grand theory connecting iron man and doom being variants etc. by that logic Steve Rogers should be a Human Torch variant displaced by HWR, and Blade should be a Cottonmouth Stokes variant and Sersi should be a Minerva variant and Killmonger should be another Human Torch variant and Happy Hogan is a Foggy Nelson variant and so on. I know, here both Doom and Iron Man are MCU "main timeline" exclusive characters and not crossed over different universes, but still. This Doom definitely isn't from 616. So he need not be a Stark variant.
Let him just be a RDJ looking baddie!
Edit: Eitri is a Bolivar Trask variant. Moon Knight is a fuckin Apocalypse variant (that would be cool)
They are two completely different characters and should remain as such.