(Theory) Thor and Loki's MCU finale (Doomsday, Secret Wars, Thor 5)
I posted my Thor/Loki theory for Doomsday a few months ago on another account (if this looks familiar to anyone) but I've made some tweaks since then and also started theorizing Thor and Loki's storylines for Secret Wars and Thor 5.
Since we know basically nothing yet about Secret Wars and Thor 5, my theories are way less detailed and structured for those, but it's still fun to start thinking about them and how they could extend from the events of Doomsday.
That said, I thought I'd condense it all down and share it all in one place (though I have been sharing it a lot in comments too lol).
Anyway, would love to hear other people's thoughts!
**Doomsday**
Just like with Infinity War, Thor has his own storyline separate from the major events going on with the rest of the cast. I predict two other big storylines running parallel to Thor's.
**Act 1**
Thor's storyline begins with him on some quiet planet living a peaceful life and taking care of Love. He's not fighting anymore, and he's been retired from battle for several years.
His peaceful life is interrupted when he is contacted by the variant Loki, who is reaching out to Thor for urgent help.
Loki cannot protect himself against Doom in his current state (holding together the multiverse). Though the other heroes are aware of the situation (maybe from Loki, maybe not), there's nobody else Loki would trust as his last line of defense except Thor.
Thor leaves Love in good care so she'll be safe, then uses the Bifrost (enhanced with some of Loki's power) to get to the TVA.
Thor goes through the door where the temporal loom was, and after some struggle and drama, he is able to power through the temporal radiation to get to Loki.
**Act 2**
Upon Thor reuniting with Loki inside Loki's Yggdrasil, Loki uses his powers of time and his hold on the multiverse to help Thor tap into ancient Asgardian magic that he is destined to wield (possibly involving runes and ravens).
After some kind of epic feat or sacrifice, Thor becomes the most powerful we've ever seen him in the MCU (something like the MCU version of Rune King Thor).
**Act 3**
After Doom has defeated or otherwise finished with the rest of the heroes in the other storylines, Doom finally arrives at the TVA to kill Loki.
Doom has gained enough power by now that he appears to be unstoppable, and he has no problem going through the temporal radiation to get to Thor and Loki.
The other heroes are busy preparing for the inevitable collapse of the multiverse. They are doing things like preparing the Life Raft or rescuing people from universes that are already being destroyed.
Meanwhile, Doom and Thor fight 1v1 in front of Loki's Yggdrasil. It's a spectacular and breathtaking battle, and Thor ultimately prevails and kills Doom. However, the fight leaves Thor exhausted and on the verge of death himself.
Franklin is then revealed to be there. Throughout the film, Franklin has been coached, manipulated, or prepared by Doom for this scenario. Franklin uses his powers, as established in the Fantastic Four movie, to resurrect Doom good as new.
Thor is in very bad shape and can't defeat Doom all over again. Doom absolutely wails on him, very hard to watch, but just as Doom is about to land the killing blow, Loki abandons his throne and emerges to save Thor.
Loki immediately teleports away with Thor to safety. With Loki out of the way, Doom takes control of the multiverse and destroys Loki's Yggdrasil, creating his own Doom-style throne in the process.
As the multiverse is collapsing and Doom is consolidating his power, a very de-powered Loki tries desperately to save Thor.
Thor realizes that they're running out of time and that if he doesn't do something, they're both going to die.
Thor tells Loki to stop trying to save him. Instead, Thor gives Loki the last remaining bit of his own powers to ensure that Loki survives.
Thor puts his absolute faith in Loki to go on to be a hero without him. As Thor dies in Loki's arms, Loki promises to avenge him and to take care of Love.
**Secret Wars**
Thanks to Thor's sacrifice, Loki not only survived Doomsday, but is also one of the few characters who retained their memories of everything that happened.
After ensuring Love is safe and taken care of, Loki sets off to avenge Thor and kill Doom.
Because Thor gave him such a good fight, Doom establishes a police force made of especially powerful Thor variants (the MCU's version of the Thor Corps from the comics).
One of these variants is another Thor played by Chris Hemsworth, but one who did not grow up as royalty and never had a Loki.
Loki is captured by this Thor as a criminal against Doom. At first, it's very painful for Loki because this Thor doesn’t recognize him and feels nothing for him at all.
Slowly, Loki is able to bond with this Thor (with plenty of childhood nostalgia and reference to his relationship with his own Thor).
Eventually, Loki causes the variant Thor to switch over to the good side with all the heroes, and while not Rune King Thor level, this variant Thor is still extremely strong.
In the big final battle of Secret Wars (whatever that turns out to be), Loki and this Thor fight and die together, side by side like true Asgardians. There’s the clear implication that they will go to Valhalla (not sure if there will only be one universe/one Valhalla at this point).
Possibly, Loki gets the final blow to killing Doom for good. In this case, Loki fulfills his promise to avenge Thor, and by helping to save everyone against a Big Bad (when he was once a Big Bad himself), he finally becomes an Avenger (very cheesy but very beautiful).
**Thor 5**
The film starts off in Valhalla where we see the original Thor arrive immediately after his death in Doomsday. He reunites with his lost loved ones, including his parents, his friends, Jane, and the original Loki.
However, something about the events of Doomsday and/or Secret Wars causes Valhalla to become vulnerable to some insane new threat.
In order to save Valhalla, Thor and the original Loki have to set off on a quest together. Meanwhile, the rest of Thor's loved ones stay behind to defend Valhalla.
The quest takes Thor and Loki through Niflheim/Hel, Alfheim, Nornheim, Heven (so we've seen all major places of interest in Thor's world).
Very much a traditional, fantasy quest kind of story, with major themes of legacy and Thor reconnecting with his destiny to become king.
All the while, Thor and Loki are chased by Hercules, who starts off as an enemy but becomes their friend by the end of the film and helps to fight whatever the greater evil is.
In addition, Thor finally fights (and defeats) Jormungandr.
By the end of the film, Valhalla is saved, and Thor and Loki are able to restore Asgard to its full glory, now as a realm in-between life and death (very mythological).
Thor finally becomes king of Asgard with Loki as his right hand. Many of his loved ones come with him from Valhalla to live in the *new* new Asgard (some, like his parents, stay in Valhalla).
Many Asgardians who were still alive come from Earth to live in Asgard too, including Sif, Valkyrie, an older Love, and anyone else I might be forgetting about. Also the variant Loki and variant Thor (from Doomsday/Secret Wars).
Basically, Thor gets to be king with everyone he cares about happy and his home restored. This version of the character and all his related people are all soft-retired.
They are able to leave to visit Earth and other places, so they're available for future appearances, but they all get the happy, peaceful ending that they've earned.
I know it's cheesy and sappy, but I think Thor deserves this kind of perfect ending more than anyone ❤️
Since we know basically nothing yet about Secret Wars and Thor 5, my theories are way less detailed and structured for those, but it's still fun to start thinking about them and how they could extend from the events of Doomsday.
That said, I thought I'd condense it all down and share it all in one place (though I have been sharing it a lot in comments too lol).
Anyway, would love to hear other people's thoughts!
**Doomsday**
Just like with Infinity War, Thor has his own storyline separate from the major events going on with the rest of the cast. I predict two other big storylines running parallel to Thor's.
**Act 1**
Thor's storyline begins with him on some quiet planet living a peaceful life and taking care of Love. He's not fighting anymore, and he's been retired from battle for several years.
His peaceful life is interrupted when he is contacted by the variant Loki, who is reaching out to Thor for urgent help.
Loki cannot protect himself against Doom in his current state (holding together the multiverse). Though the other heroes are aware of the situation (maybe from Loki, maybe not), there's nobody else Loki would trust as his last line of defense except Thor.
Thor leaves Love in good care so she'll be safe, then uses the Bifrost (enhanced with some of Loki's power) to get to the TVA.
Thor goes through the door where the temporal loom was, and after some struggle and drama, he is able to power through the temporal radiation to get to Loki.
**Act 2**
Upon Thor reuniting with Loki inside Loki's Yggdrasil, Loki uses his powers of time and his hold on the multiverse to help Thor tap into ancient Asgardian magic that he is destined to wield (possibly involving runes and ravens).
After some kind of epic feat or sacrifice, Thor becomes the most powerful we've ever seen him in the MCU (something like the MCU version of Rune King Thor).
**Act 3**
After Doom has defeated or otherwise finished with the rest of the heroes in the other storylines, Doom finally arrives at the TVA to kill Loki.
Doom has gained enough power by now that he appears to be unstoppable, and he has no problem going through the temporal radiation to get to Thor and Loki.
The other heroes are busy preparing for the inevitable collapse of the multiverse. They are doing things like preparing the Life Raft or rescuing people from universes that are already being destroyed.
Meanwhile, Doom and Thor fight 1v1 in front of Loki's Yggdrasil. It's a spectacular and breathtaking battle, and Thor ultimately prevails and kills Doom. However, the fight leaves Thor exhausted and on the verge of death himself.
Franklin is then revealed to be there. Throughout the film, Franklin has been coached, manipulated, or prepared by Doom for this scenario. Franklin uses his powers, as established in the Fantastic Four movie, to resurrect Doom good as new.
Thor is in very bad shape and can't defeat Doom all over again. Doom absolutely wails on him, very hard to watch, but just as Doom is about to land the killing blow, Loki abandons his throne and emerges to save Thor.
Loki immediately teleports away with Thor to safety. With Loki out of the way, Doom takes control of the multiverse and destroys Loki's Yggdrasil, creating his own Doom-style throne in the process.
As the multiverse is collapsing and Doom is consolidating his power, a very de-powered Loki tries desperately to save Thor.
Thor realizes that they're running out of time and that if he doesn't do something, they're both going to die.
Thor tells Loki to stop trying to save him. Instead, Thor gives Loki the last remaining bit of his own powers to ensure that Loki survives.
Thor puts his absolute faith in Loki to go on to be a hero without him. As Thor dies in Loki's arms, Loki promises to avenge him and to take care of Love.
**Secret Wars**
Thanks to Thor's sacrifice, Loki not only survived Doomsday, but is also one of the few characters who retained their memories of everything that happened.
After ensuring Love is safe and taken care of, Loki sets off to avenge Thor and kill Doom.
Because Thor gave him such a good fight, Doom establishes a police force made of especially powerful Thor variants (the MCU's version of the Thor Corps from the comics).
One of these variants is another Thor played by Chris Hemsworth, but one who did not grow up as royalty and never had a Loki.
Loki is captured by this Thor as a criminal against Doom. At first, it's very painful for Loki because this Thor doesn’t recognize him and feels nothing for him at all.
Slowly, Loki is able to bond with this Thor (with plenty of childhood nostalgia and reference to his relationship with his own Thor).
Eventually, Loki causes the variant Thor to switch over to the good side with all the heroes, and while not Rune King Thor level, this variant Thor is still extremely strong.
In the big final battle of Secret Wars (whatever that turns out to be), Loki and this Thor fight and die together, side by side like true Asgardians. There’s the clear implication that they will go to Valhalla (not sure if there will only be one universe/one Valhalla at this point).
Possibly, Loki gets the final blow to killing Doom for good. In this case, Loki fulfills his promise to avenge Thor, and by helping to save everyone against a Big Bad (when he was once a Big Bad himself), he finally becomes an Avenger (very cheesy but very beautiful).
**Thor 5**
The film starts off in Valhalla where we see the original Thor arrive immediately after his death in Doomsday. He reunites with his lost loved ones, including his parents, his friends, Jane, and the original Loki.
However, something about the events of Doomsday and/or Secret Wars causes Valhalla to become vulnerable to some insane new threat.
In order to save Valhalla, Thor and the original Loki have to set off on a quest together. Meanwhile, the rest of Thor's loved ones stay behind to defend Valhalla.
The quest takes Thor and Loki through Niflheim/Hel, Alfheim, Nornheim, Heven (so we've seen all major places of interest in Thor's world).
Very much a traditional, fantasy quest kind of story, with major themes of legacy and Thor reconnecting with his destiny to become king.
All the while, Thor and Loki are chased by Hercules, who starts off as an enemy but becomes their friend by the end of the film and helps to fight whatever the greater evil is.
In addition, Thor finally fights (and defeats) Jormungandr.
By the end of the film, Valhalla is saved, and Thor and Loki are able to restore Asgard to its full glory, now as a realm in-between life and death (very mythological).
Thor finally becomes king of Asgard with Loki as his right hand. Many of his loved ones come with him from Valhalla to live in the *new* new Asgard (some, like his parents, stay in Valhalla).
Many Asgardians who were still alive come from Earth to live in Asgard too, including Sif, Valkyrie, an older Love, and anyone else I might be forgetting about. Also the variant Loki and variant Thor (from Doomsday/Secret Wars).
Basically, Thor gets to be king with everyone he cares about happy and his home restored. This version of the character and all his related people are all soft-retired.
They are able to leave to visit Earth and other places, so they're available for future appearances, but they all get the happy, peaceful ending that they've earned.
I know it's cheesy and sappy, but I think Thor deserves this kind of perfect ending more than anyone ❤️
Commentaires
I still appreciate your imagination, but I feel this scenario is unlikely to happen. my upvotes for your creativity and imagination
In **Endgame**, it’s reversed—the Avengers are right and Thanos is wrong.
In **Civil War**, Tony is right at one point, Cap is right later, and even Zemo makes sense.
So my point is simple: with the Russos, we never know the twist.
The start of **Infinity War** proves this. Instead of destroying a planet, Thanos beats the strongest Avenger in minutes. That single scene shows how unpredictable they are.
I don’t think he does it fully on purpose. Even if Asgard was destroyed, the Tesseract could still float in space or teleport. One of them could have survived and taken it. So i cant trust that version of loki.
Loki's turn from bad to good was tied more strongly to his relationship with his family, and we see that change across the first 3 Thor movies, not in IW.
Civil War works because both sides have good arguments, it's not supposed to be one or the other, and its all just the work of Zemo anyway so either time one side is in the right it's only because of the events he created.
That’s my point: Marvel and the Russo Brothers often use trailers to mislead us. They don’t always show scenes that actually happen the way we expect.
So if Thanos accepted Loki to work with his children, there’s a small chance Loki would cooperate—for a while. But it would only be until the right moment comes for him to act in his own interest.
As for *Civil War*, those points are my personal opinions, mixed with some common views I’ve seen online.
Loki had *zero intention* of trying to work with Thanos when he made that whole speech to him. Everything Loki did in that scene was him improvising and trying to stall, just so he could buy Thor some time and a chance to live.
Loki knew very well when he tried to stab Thanos that he probably wouldn't survive, but he did it anyway, because in that moment, all that mattered to him was protecting his brother and he just had to try something.
That was the whole cathartic element to that scene. For once, Loki *wasn't* acting in his own interest. Everything about that entire scene - from Loki offering the Tesseract, to tossing it on the ground, to trying to stall and stab Thanos - was Loki putting his brother first and affirming his love for him. That is why Loki finally calls himself "Odinson."
You can listen to Tom Hiddleston's explanation here at 3:18: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP05CRvg\_ug](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP05CRvg_ug)
The Russo Brothers just make us feel, for a moment, that the antagonist might be right.
When Thanos talks to Doctor Strange, I was slightly convinced by his words. But when the snap actually happened, the real horror became clear. That’s when I realized why thinking he was right was a mistake.
In *Infinity War*, Thanos loses many things and follows the mindset of “whatever it takes.” The Avengers later follow the same mindset and win.
In *Endgame*, the Russos make it clear that Thanos was wrong. He can’t kill trillions of people. He is not a god.
**Thor is a major player in Doomsday and him getting such a meaty storyline is very plausible**
Chris Hemsworth was the first name announced in the chairs stream. I suspect the chairs stream has the cast arranged in the billing order for the cast credits. This is why you have big names both in the beginning and in the end, very much like a billing order. So in this case, Chris Hemsworth would be billed first in the cast.
In Infinity War, Chris Hemsworth was billed second, and like I noted, he had an entire storyline of his own for basically the entire film. Yes, he interacted with others, but it was a clear Thor-centric, Thor-oriented storyline: opening scene + GOTG rescue Thor and take him to Nidavellir + Thor builds Stormbreaker + Thor arrives in Wakanda and almost kills Thanos.
What I've proposed here for Thor's storyline would not actually require much more screentime than what he was given in Infinity War (I've actually sat and roughly calculated it out lol). And if he is indeed billed first, this would be totally doable with the amount of screentime he'd likely be allotted.
Now, along with that, Thor was also the first character featured in the D23 highlight reel; Thor is right after Doom on the bag given to the crew; Thor just got his own solo-focused teaser trailer; and from what we can tell, Chris Hemsworth did most of his filming away from everyone else, including filming something secretly with a skeleton crew.
Very notably, Thor is also the only OG Avenger with a major role in the cast. As such, I think it makes the most sense to anchor him as the heart of the film and let him really shine the way he never got to in Endgame (that movie was really Steve and Tony shining while Thor got shat on). This film is supposed to be a direct sequel to Endgame, so it's a perfect opportunity to right that wrong.
(Note: I do not believe Steve Rogers has a huge amount of screentime in Doomsday and so is not actually a major role. Important, but not a storyline/character focus like others will be)
I know it sounds like it's a lot of Thor in my outline because that's all I've focused on here, but as I said, I think there would be two other big storylines running parallel to this one, very similar to Infinity War. You would also have Doom jumping around between all three storylines, much like Thanos did.
This Thor storyline would account for maybe 1/3 of the film at most. And given all that I've said above, I think that's a pretty reasonable prediction.
One of my ideas actually comes directly from leaked set footage from Chris Hemsworth’s stunt double, spoilers >! confirming that Chris Hemsworth filmed at the TVA right in front of the door to Loki. I think they were filming something very similar to what I described for the end of Act 1. !<
Now, as for the next thing...
**Thor dying in the final act of the movie is very plausible**
Earlier this year around the time Doomsday started filming, Marvel made a big deal about it being Thor's 15-year anniversary and released a special tribute video. The very next day, Marvel also released a special video about Thor and Loki together. This kind of thing wasn't done for any of the other characters.
And going along with what I said above, Thor is a very beloved, OG Avenger and one of the three pillars that built the MCU from its infancy. If there's anything that would give Doomsday an emotional impact on the level of Infinity War, especially if Thor has a huge focus in the film, it would be Thor having this kind of epic, sacrificial death.
People would be absolutely shaken to the core by it, and it would make victory against Doom feel absolutely impossible and hopeless (just like it felt for Thanos).
I really can't think of anything else, given the roster of confirmed characters, that would have anywhere near that kind of narrative impact.
Loki has died already been there done that.
Very good idea if it was fresh but idk if they can afford removing two of the most popular characters rn
And I really, really think Thor 5 is perfectly suited for Valhalla (returning Thor to his mythological routes), so Thor would have to die to get there of course.
Also yes, I agree Loki dying is too tired at this point, which is why I have Loki survive to Secret Wars and flip around the usual dynamic (this time, Thor dies and Loki is the one left grieving). But because the multiverse thing is going to be over after Secret Wars, I don't see much purpose to keeping Loki around or where he'll even go. I think him getting to die on a full-on battlefield, in very Asgardian style, is a really suitable ending for him.
I just think that doom wouldn't kill thor necessarily just make him work for him or something because unlike Thanos, doom is kind of more reasonable kind of still a huge douchebag but idk.
I think doomsday could have a lot of impact if the villain wins without killing anyone.
Like he is so narcissistic that he doesn't even feel like its worth the effort
1. This just cheapens Loki season 2 spectacular ending and character arc. Correct me if I’m wrong but it sounds like he would just be abandoning his post to save (one) Thor which is not my read at all of where we left him
2. I surely hope we don’t get Franklin Richards revivals.
3. I’m not sure if an afterlife Thor movie has enough stakes that Marvel would want. Everybody is already dead?
That's straight up Loki's Thor. The Thor that saved Loki over the past 20 years in the MCU
Remember when Loki was evil as fuck attacking NYC?
1: I don't think it would cheapen Loki's season 2 ending or character at all. In fact, I think it would greatly enhance it and add more depth to his character. Let me explain.
First off, Loki has to leave that throne one way or another, because Doom needs it to win. I think Loki giving it up willingly is the obvious choice here (in a good way) to achieve this, and to do so in a way that gives Loki a character arc and agency. This way, he doesn't just spend the whole movie as a MacGuffin waiting to be killed or enslaved.
Second, this is not just any Thor we're talking about. This is the *exact Thor* that Loki grew up with and lived his whole life with on the Sacred Timeline. Remember, there was no multiverse before the events of the Loki show because the TVA was pruning everything. TV Loki was the same being as movie Loki until 2012. So that's all to say, this is a very, very special Thor. This is Loki's *one and only* own Thor (since the variant from his branch timeline was pruned).
Third, I think him abandoning his post to save his brother shows that, even as an omnipotent multiversal time god, he's still a flawed person with feelings, and those feelings can be exploited and lead him to making the "wrong" choice to devestating consequences.
It's a classic heart vs. duty scenario, and yeah, it would be gut-wrenching but beautiful and would add depth and layers to this character, instead of just saying "ok he's a dutiful robot above his feelings now, that's it, nowhere left to go with this guy."
Even Thor and Steve, two of the most noble "good guys" of the MCU, have both made mistakes and "wrong" choices, those that were against the greater good and entirely due to their bonds and emotions. These choices made them better characters, even if not "perfect" heroes.
2: I'm not crazy about the Franklin Richards thing either, but they did set it up already in the Fantastic Four movie. Also, I think it's crucial that Thor is able to be totally awesome again, but that Doom still ends up winning. And since we don't just want an exact repeat of "Thor almost killed Thanos but made a mistake", I think utilizing this element of Franklin Richards (that's already been established) is a natural choice here.
It also makes Doom even more formidable than Thanos, because what it tells us is that, one, Doom prepared for every scenario, including his own death; and two, not even killing Doom is enough to stop him.
3: That's a fair question, but Valhalla being under threat of destruction would be enough stakes, I think (the implication that everyone's really *really* dead if Valhalla is destroyed). I don't know if you've seen the movie Coco? But that movie deals with the concept of a *true* death for people who are already dead in the afterlife, and the stakes are very much felt, so it can definitely be done.
Also, this film wouldn't be so much about the stakes, it would be more about Thor reconnecting with his legacy and his destiny to be king, which has been lost in his past few appearances. This film would be more about restoring him and his world to their whole godly, mythological status.
Not everything has to be a life and death struggle to be meaningful. This would be the swan song for Chris Hemsworth and all his people, so it would be about final reverence and respect for all the years and work that went into that corner of the MCU.
Also, about the "this is a lot of Thor in a Dr. Doom movie", I explained it more in my reply at the top of this post, but I'm very confident my proposed storyline could be done in roughly the same screentime (maybe just a little bit more) as Thor's storyline in Infinity War.
Plus Chris Hemsworth’s Thor tribute video and paragraph makes it feel like he’s hanging the suit up for the time being
They also recently uploaded something to a lot of the official Marvel social media that had Thor and Loki's scene from Infinity War with a caption like "Brothers out of time."
That double meaning there makes me think it's a clear, loud hint for Doomsday.
"Out of time" as in, that moment Loki died and him and Thor ran out of time together 🥺
but also, "out of time" meaning literally *outside of time*…meaning...they meet at the TVA! 🥹
Otherwise fantastic