Differences in Depiction- Ancient One vs Danny Rand vs Mandarin vs (the good one) Shang Chi
Kind of a summary of why movie depictions of comic-canon Asian characters were respectful or disrespectful in the MCU.
side-note: sorry if this post seems overly critical of the first three. i did save the best east-asian depiction for last though: Shang-Chi. I loved his movie.
1. Ancient One- Hooooo boy. Ok just... the Ancient One is literally a Tibetan monk in the comics. And I just don't see what's racist about keeping it that way? Why are you casting some white lady named Tilda (no flame I like the actress) to play an East Asian monk? Did they just retcon it or smth? I feel like this was even more racist because it excluded potential east Asian actors/actresses from landing the role. Preferably Tibetan rather than just any country from that part of the world, just because I can't really think of any Tibetan actors, so this could've been their chance. I don't know how I would've felt if they'd cast a Korean or Japanese person, because that would kind of be lumping cultures together, but it still would've been better than what we got, because at least it would've given an opportunity to actors who are part of the minority in Marvel.
2. Danny Rand- I refuse to call him Iron Fist. People say it was actually less racist because his character showed that "white people can do martial arts too!". Whilst obviously anyone from any race can do east Asian martial arts with practice, the way it went down in iron fist is problematic. The fact that the writers made him better at a cultural style of fighting than the people who are actually from that culture is kind of a white saviour trope. I personally think it would've been cool if Heather Rand (Danny's mother) was actually originally from K'un L'un and moved to America and fell in love with Mr Rand. Her original name could've been something along the lines of Gao Hua (I js like the name's meaning). The story of iron fist could've been about how being biracial can leave you stuck between two worlds, with Danny (Gao Kai) questioning his right to be the iron fist, and also wanting to see his father's home country and explore his identity. The MCU portrayal was somehow even worse than the comics. Danny didn't even win his battle properly, he left K'un L'un without an Iron Fist and fucked off to America to get his dad's company, and basically just gave off entitled rich kid vibes. And yeah, maybe that was intentional, but I really didn't like it.
3. The Mandarin- In the comics, he basically just existed to perpetuate xenophobic and racist stereotypes and act as a foil to handsome, all-american, heroic white billionaire Tony Stark (dont get me wrong I love tony). He was the classic communist, freedom-hating Asian trope, designed to make people go "oooo, scary chinese!". Side-note: why is the Ten Rings organisation seemingly not made up of countries that are actually allied with each other and share interests, but rather Muslim/Asian countries that happen to be enemies of the U.S? Like the Mandarin is Chinese, but there's a Ten Rings gang in fucking Afghanistan for some reason? Possibly Pakistani? Made up of Muslims? Like the Uyghurs don't exist? Pakistan and China are super... uh... friendly, but I don't understand where Afghanistan fits in here. Kind of iffy. Moving on, I actually (and don't come after me for this) kind of liked the Mandarin twist in IM3. Firstly, even if they had adapted the Mandarin source material into the movie to make it less offensive, how the fuck were they supposed to cram such an iconic albeit controversial villain into one movie and make him seem genuinely impactful? Wouldn't have seemed like much of a big bad if he came and went in the span of two hours. Besides, having the Mandarin actually be the villain would've been boring as all fuck. Oh my goodness, dangerous foreign person kidnapping/killing military personnel/innocent Americans, never seen that in a marvel movie. I liked the twist. It really kept in line with the movies' theme. First movie's enemy: military industrial complex in the form of stoking international conflict to line certain people's pockets (if Dick Cheney is MCU canon I'll be laughing about it for the rest of the day). Second movie's enemy: military industrial complex in the form of developing weapons technology to line certain people's pockets (note we also had Stane in the first movie). Third movie's enemy: military industrial complex in the form of taking advantage of and/or ignoring veterans who have sacrificed everything to line certain people's pockets (even Steve Rogers never made a significant statement addressing how the U.S treats its vets.) In fact, the Iron Man movies needed to finish that way to complete their stand against xenophobia and fear-mongering of foreigners and Muslims. Even in the Winter Soldier, S.H.I.E.L.D, the invasive and nosy American intelligence agency is corrupted, but not because of American authority figures or governments or even staff; foreign organisation HYDRA infiltrated fucking S.H.I.E.L.D somehow, turning the conversation away from "over-surveillance is bad" to "over-surveillance is ok as long as it's JUST america doing it cuz the only way an american organisation could do something wrong is if the n\*zis are behind it (this is beside the fact that half the american government is made up of neo-n\*zis and anti-semitic zionists (don't ask me how someone can be anti-semitic and a zionist until you've thoroughly researched Winston Churchill)). Anyways, that's my two cents on the Mandarin. I understand why it was disappointing for fans though; the way the movie was marketed, IM3 Mandarin was basically false advertising. If it's any comfort, the Mandarin is better off as a Doctor Strange or Shang-Chi villain. Which leads me to my next point...
4. Shang-Chi- I don't have much to say about this. First off, I wanna pre-face this by mentioning a previous post on here from an Asian-American person who said that they were kind of annoyed about how MCU's first significant, non-douchebag Asian character is a kung-fu stereotype. Which is honestly valid. That said, it is by and large the least offensive portrayal on this list, so I guess we're giving Marvel a cookie for progress. They'll get there one day. The movie was awesome. It wasn't afraid to shy away from well-known, if over-used (in movies) aspects of Chinese legend/myth, and cultural aspects throughout the film. It scattered these things throughout, similarly to how Ms Marvel did it. I'm pretty ok with the Mandarin in this. Yes, he's a villain, but it's not directly tied to his government or whatever, and he's not the fiftieth rendition of Fu Manchu, he's just kind of a shitty guy. Representation in villain type characters is actually good, because it normalises things.
ok im done hope i didn't offend anyone if i did lemme know
side-note: sorry if this post seems overly critical of the first three. i did save the best east-asian depiction for last though: Shang-Chi. I loved his movie.
1. Ancient One- Hooooo boy. Ok just... the Ancient One is literally a Tibetan monk in the comics. And I just don't see what's racist about keeping it that way? Why are you casting some white lady named Tilda (no flame I like the actress) to play an East Asian monk? Did they just retcon it or smth? I feel like this was even more racist because it excluded potential east Asian actors/actresses from landing the role. Preferably Tibetan rather than just any country from that part of the world, just because I can't really think of any Tibetan actors, so this could've been their chance. I don't know how I would've felt if they'd cast a Korean or Japanese person, because that would kind of be lumping cultures together, but it still would've been better than what we got, because at least it would've given an opportunity to actors who are part of the minority in Marvel.
2. Danny Rand- I refuse to call him Iron Fist. People say it was actually less racist because his character showed that "white people can do martial arts too!". Whilst obviously anyone from any race can do east Asian martial arts with practice, the way it went down in iron fist is problematic. The fact that the writers made him better at a cultural style of fighting than the people who are actually from that culture is kind of a white saviour trope. I personally think it would've been cool if Heather Rand (Danny's mother) was actually originally from K'un L'un and moved to America and fell in love with Mr Rand. Her original name could've been something along the lines of Gao Hua (I js like the name's meaning). The story of iron fist could've been about how being biracial can leave you stuck between two worlds, with Danny (Gao Kai) questioning his right to be the iron fist, and also wanting to see his father's home country and explore his identity. The MCU portrayal was somehow even worse than the comics. Danny didn't even win his battle properly, he left K'un L'un without an Iron Fist and fucked off to America to get his dad's company, and basically just gave off entitled rich kid vibes. And yeah, maybe that was intentional, but I really didn't like it.
3. The Mandarin- In the comics, he basically just existed to perpetuate xenophobic and racist stereotypes and act as a foil to handsome, all-american, heroic white billionaire Tony Stark (dont get me wrong I love tony). He was the classic communist, freedom-hating Asian trope, designed to make people go "oooo, scary chinese!". Side-note: why is the Ten Rings organisation seemingly not made up of countries that are actually allied with each other and share interests, but rather Muslim/Asian countries that happen to be enemies of the U.S? Like the Mandarin is Chinese, but there's a Ten Rings gang in fucking Afghanistan for some reason? Possibly Pakistani? Made up of Muslims? Like the Uyghurs don't exist? Pakistan and China are super... uh... friendly, but I don't understand where Afghanistan fits in here. Kind of iffy. Moving on, I actually (and don't come after me for this) kind of liked the Mandarin twist in IM3. Firstly, even if they had adapted the Mandarin source material into the movie to make it less offensive, how the fuck were they supposed to cram such an iconic albeit controversial villain into one movie and make him seem genuinely impactful? Wouldn't have seemed like much of a big bad if he came and went in the span of two hours. Besides, having the Mandarin actually be the villain would've been boring as all fuck. Oh my goodness, dangerous foreign person kidnapping/killing military personnel/innocent Americans, never seen that in a marvel movie. I liked the twist. It really kept in line with the movies' theme. First movie's enemy: military industrial complex in the form of stoking international conflict to line certain people's pockets (if Dick Cheney is MCU canon I'll be laughing about it for the rest of the day). Second movie's enemy: military industrial complex in the form of developing weapons technology to line certain people's pockets (note we also had Stane in the first movie). Third movie's enemy: military industrial complex in the form of taking advantage of and/or ignoring veterans who have sacrificed everything to line certain people's pockets (even Steve Rogers never made a significant statement addressing how the U.S treats its vets.) In fact, the Iron Man movies needed to finish that way to complete their stand against xenophobia and fear-mongering of foreigners and Muslims. Even in the Winter Soldier, S.H.I.E.L.D, the invasive and nosy American intelligence agency is corrupted, but not because of American authority figures or governments or even staff; foreign organisation HYDRA infiltrated fucking S.H.I.E.L.D somehow, turning the conversation away from "over-surveillance is bad" to "over-surveillance is ok as long as it's JUST america doing it cuz the only way an american organisation could do something wrong is if the n\*zis are behind it (this is beside the fact that half the american government is made up of neo-n\*zis and anti-semitic zionists (don't ask me how someone can be anti-semitic and a zionist until you've thoroughly researched Winston Churchill)). Anyways, that's my two cents on the Mandarin. I understand why it was disappointing for fans though; the way the movie was marketed, IM3 Mandarin was basically false advertising. If it's any comfort, the Mandarin is better off as a Doctor Strange or Shang-Chi villain. Which leads me to my next point...
4. Shang-Chi- I don't have much to say about this. First off, I wanna pre-face this by mentioning a previous post on here from an Asian-American person who said that they were kind of annoyed about how MCU's first significant, non-douchebag Asian character is a kung-fu stereotype. Which is honestly valid. That said, it is by and large the least offensive portrayal on this list, so I guess we're giving Marvel a cookie for progress. They'll get there one day. The movie was awesome. It wasn't afraid to shy away from well-known, if over-used (in movies) aspects of Chinese legend/myth, and cultural aspects throughout the film. It scattered these things throughout, similarly to how Ms Marvel did it. I'm pretty ok with the Mandarin in this. Yes, he's a villain, but it's not directly tied to his government or whatever, and he's not the fiftieth rendition of Fu Manchu, he's just kind of a shitty guy. Representation in villain type characters is actually good, because it normalises things.
ok im done hope i didn't offend anyone if i did lemme know
Commentaires
My concentration lasted until halfway through the hefty block of text in point 3
But the show took that motivation away without giving him anything more interesting to explore. He wanders off. He wants his family’s company back because why not. He has to stop the Hand because only he can, I guess. It’s dumb the whole way through.
I get that a revenge story isn’t the most original but it is his origin, and explains why this rando white guy might actually be driven enough to become the world’s best martial artist.
I wanna geek out about comic characters not how weird american cancel culture can be lmao.
I mean to some extent yes, it's funny how some people cry about race-swapping... only sometimes.
But to me actors... act, they can pretend to be things that they are not, as long as they do a convincing job and the movie is fun then whathever. I'm not gonna complain that Josh Brolin isn't a purple skinned Titanian.
Enjoy what you like, ignore the complainers
Secondly, I'm not trying to cancel anyone. I'm sharing my thoughts on how well characters were portrayed
I'm not crying? I'm saying I thought it was a weird choice. When the mandarin was race-swapped to be a fake-out, I thought it was a good choice. If you didn't read what I wrote, why comment?
I assume I'm the complainer here. Which I suppose makes you the self-righteous, pompous asshole.
* Ancient One should definitely have been a Tibetan monk, that was silly of Marvel.
* Danny Rand is White in the comics. That’s not on Marvel Studios. Also, him being White gives him an odd-man-out angle to his story of being the martial arts chosen one.
* Remaking Ben Kingsley Mandarin into a vaguely Middle Eastern-coded terrorist can be explained by it literally being a psy-op by the actual villain that’s meant to scare Americans in 2013.
* I thought both the “real” Mandarin and Shang-Chi were respectful portrayals of Chinese and Chinese-American culture. I’m glad the Asian-American community in San Francisco got represented beyond a stereotyped trip to Chinatown during a detective investigation.
* I get that you’re focusing on Asian or martial arts-based characters in this post, but race- and gender-swapping characters is nothing new to Marvel. Nick Fury, Mordo, Silver Surfer, Valkyrie, Heimdall… I’m generally in favor of more fidelity to the (classic) comics but it’s just a given at this point.
2nd point- I know, I evaluated what he was like in the comics (kind of a white saviour) and then how marvel studios adapted that (pretty much the same things but more obnoxious)
3rd- I know, I said that in my post. If you didn't read it, it's fine, I know it was a little long. I do agree with you tho.
4th- Mentioned that too, and I agree, imo, the comics mandarin, mcu ancient one and danny rand were bad representations, but like I mentioned in the last paragragh, I think that shang-chi mandarin and shang-chi himself were both just really cool (and good rep)
5th- the only one they race-swapped in this post was the ancient one tho? and whilst nick fury and valkyrie and others were ok decisions, tilda swinton probably wasn't the right choice
Also, Shang-Chi was originally half-Asian in the comics, and he was the best-selling comic of the 1970's. Danny Rand had no reason to exist except to completely remove all Asian-ness from the character except culture so they could sell martial arts books to racists (no one read Iron Fist, by the way, and the only successful run he's ever had in his entire existence is the first 12 issues of the Matt Fraction run, after which sales instantly plummeted).
Either which way, I do agree with you in that I'm glad Shang-Chi overshadowed Iron Fist's failures.