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“They’re running out of ideas” Well they had an idea and it kinda got fucked lol

I think you guys are forgetting about Kang Dynasty. Yes bringing back previous characters and actors is cheap and lazy but they were big plans with Jonathan Majors and since he was cut it threw a serious wrench in the spokes in my opinion. And reusing things probably seemed more appealing or just appealing in general as a whole when ideas were thrown around since so much had to be started from scratch. Just looking at it from an objective point-of-view. I don’t necessarily like it either but there are reasons behind these choices, albeit stupid ones to an extent. I’m trying to be optimistic and hope that this could turn out to be something great and worthwhile. These \*are\* the better characters, after all. And yes I’m aware that doesn’t need to be said. Maybe the next closure will be something really good, too. You never know. And I am someone who also is in the camp of people who think this ruins Endgame

I’m sure a part of them felt rushed and scrambled due to the enormous change, aka the entire story and future of the franchise hahaha. I also don’t doubt a lot was scrapped for Secret Wars as well

Let’s hear your thoughts and I’m politely asking you to be rational and civil

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Commentaires

eBICgamer20102025-12-24 11:27

They had an idea and even in retrospect it seems very poor.

From what's left on the cutting room floor Kang actually hampered Marvel's ability to make follow-ups to who fans liked. They tied him to (and was about to tie him to), see, Loki, Ant-Man, Shang-Chi, Moon Knight, Ms. Marvel, even X-Men (in X-Men '97, Beau at one point admitted that Kang was about to show up, no idea what changed). Yeah.

So they just fucked themselves over whether or not you want to admit it.

JakiStow2025-12-24 11:28

Majors is not the reason it all fell apart. They have recasted actors before, and would have done it again if they really wanted to push this storyline (and the whole variant thing even makes recasting plausible in-world).

No, the real reason is creative. Either they didn't get the audience response they expected from Kang, or they couldn't make this storyline good enough, who knows. The point is, the actor's actions only gave them a good excuse to cancel the whole Kang arc, not the other way around.

Rastarapha3202025-12-24 11:37

Yep, Quantumania is a bigger reason

OdepiusNecks2025-12-24 12:10

Trying to get audiences to believe that Kang is an Avenger’s-level threat by having him get defeated by Ant-Man in his first appearance was certainly a choice.

Rastarapha3202025-12-24 12:25

Personally, I never thought it was a stupid idea

I actually think it's ingenious to bring the character back to the forefront in this way (as in Endgame), to show that his powers and his universe can be just as over-the-top as the rest

But the movie is just really bad

Electronic-While-5222025-12-24 12:34

There are so many different Ant Man villains they could've used instead. Hell, they could've brought back Ultron (yes Hank wasn't the one to create him in the MCU) in some capacity to help set up Vision Quest.

MajorNoodles2025-12-24 13:57

I thought they were bringing back Ultron for Vision Quest

Electronic-While-5222025-12-24 14:02

They are. It's just been a while since we've seen the mainline Ultron as well as most of the characters slated for the show. Quantummania would've been a good time to tease the show. It has a 2026 release but it's been flying under the radar due to the Avengers and Spiderman movies.

Realistic_Analyst_262025-12-24 12:40

Getting defeated is fine because his whole schtick is coming back like nothing happened. The issue is how the movie ended. It shouldn’t have been “Well done Ant-Fam!” But more “What did you guys unleash on this world”

OdepiusNecks2025-12-24 12:49

I mostly agree with you. What I was trying to highlight is that all movie audiences saw was that Kang got unambiguously defeated by Ant-Man. Scott’s little panic attack in the denouement was not enough. His comic gimmick would be unknown to most movie goers, and it’s them you have to sell Kang to.

ExtensionLake10552025-12-24 13:35

Also, Cassie getting rid of MODOK so easily makes Kang's entire arc in that movie seem like a joke.
They should lose Hank or the Wasp so we can see the consequences and so that a single Kang seems more powerful than what we saw.

MrSwiftly862025-12-24 15:10

I think to a general audience that’s a shitty schtick. It doesn’t matter what worked in comics. Him coming back isn’t threatening if he can get defeated by a B tier hero with no losses.

BZenMojo2025-12-24 18:56

Kang isn't even considered a serious threat to non-Avengers fans. To everyone else, he's that guy always getting slapped around by Apocalypse or scheming to steal tech in the past as a cameo.

Realistic_Analyst_262025-12-24 22:20

It can be threatening if they portray it that way, which didn’t happen.

Adorable_Ad_34782025-12-24 15:40

That's the schtichk of every single comic book villain, it's not something unique to Kang. For the record, Kang defeats the OG Avengers in his very first comic book appearance. All of them.

In MCU Kang's first appearance, he loses to fricking Ant-Man. In an era when everyone talks about aura farming and hype, MCU Kang had negative aura and negative hype.

AM3 would have greatly benefited from a prologue in which MCU Kang kills The Avengers to hype him up. And then effortlessly kill the entire Ant-Man family except for Cassie who is the sole survivor.

BZenMojo2025-12-24 18:58

Kang in Loki was a BEAST. Kang in the first 2 hours of Ant-Man was a BEAST.

Kang versus Scott Lang and Hope Pym with double sets of plot armor was a joke. This character and the entire movie were sacrificed for a series of emotionally empty third act cop-outs one after the other.

Adorable_Ad_34782025-12-24 22:42

A beast that gets one-shot no-diffed by a random knife. Yeah sure....

HWR had a negative aura and negative hype. "You won´t kill me," only to get killed lol

derprunner2025-12-24 13:00

Not even a Pyrrhic victory either. They just straight up clapped him with no losses.

nikenike2025-12-24 11:45

The truth is it’s probably a mix of both. Maybe it may not be “the” reason it fell apart but it can be part of the reason it did.

JakiStow2025-12-24 11:52

Maybe, but realistically I don't see studio execs give up on hundreds of millions of profit just to avoid recasting. They don't have that artistic integrity.

nikenike2025-12-24 12:00

That’s assuming they would profit with a recasting. Thats why it may be a bit of both

mrbaryonyx2025-12-24 18:40

Also, focusing on the villain was a bad idea to begin with.

Infinity Saga did not work because of Thanos.

Zeebbb2025-12-24 11:39

Doom as the villain will always be better than Kang, they might not have as much build up as with Thanos but I think they can make a compelling story. Steve was always going to return even in Kang Dynasty, I think that's pretty obvious, especially with how the best adaptation of Kang has him going after Steve because of him messing up the timeline in EMH. It would have been basically the same thing.I trust the Russos, they've yet to make a bad superhero movie. I think it may seem rushed but Doomsday is the prequel to Secret Wars by the time Secret Wars comes around I don't think it'll be rushed

mercy_death2025-12-24 12:05

Obviously the thing with Majors threw a spanner in the works but let's not forget that a vast majority of phase 4 and 5 was made during covid protocols. So mych got pushed back or the order changed or stories changed due to limitations being in place etc.

Essentially nothing went according to plan.

ReddiTrawler20212025-12-24 12:23

In my opinion, the Marvel Multiverse got too big with its "What If" tales (most of which didn't go anywhere) and the Loki show's setup of Kang and the TVA that also was detoured after the great setup at the end of Season 1.

And with Multiverses or Parallel Universes, it's probably always better to use one character with various variants, like what the Spider-Verse did with its Spider-Men. Not sure who they could have chosen for that role though, maybe Captain Britain or (a better choice) Doctor Strange.

eBICgamer20102025-12-24 12:40

>And with Multiverses or Parallel Universes, it's probably always better to use one character with various variants, like what the Spider-Verse did with its Spider-Men.

Speaking of that, why hasn't Marvel Studios used anyone other than Peter Parker (and Gwen Stacy next year)?

OdepiusNecks2025-12-24 12:58

They aren’t able to just use Spider-Man how ever they want. His movie appearances ares still owned by Sony.

eBICgamer20102025-12-24 13:14

I mean in animated series. Like they can do whatever they want there but YFNSM took four years just to come out.

pinguin_skipper2025-12-24 12:36

Just recast bro. It wouldn’t help because their idea was to ride on Endgame fame spitting bad movies without connection and continuation.

the_elon_mask2025-12-24 12:37

You know in the comics how Doctor Octopus died and never came back? To this day, there still hasn't been a new Doc Ock.

No?

Because it doesn't happen. Heroes and villains "die" all the time or retire (or their book gets cancelled) or whatever and then years later, some writer decides they want to re-use a specific character for a specific thing and it takes off.

So we end up with situations like the original teenage X-Men becoming the main X-Men again, 60 years later. Or Steve Rogers is assassinated and Bucky takes over, only for Steve to come back and then he's been a Hydra Agent all his life, only he wasn't.

You've got to accept that films based on comic books are going to do some weird stuff.

Running out of ideas is the last thing I would accuse them of.

Rare_Discussion43212025-12-24 12:46

I feel like the whole threat with Kang that was established was that there are too many variants of Kang but if the multiverse is infinite then the heroes too would be too many! I just dont get what Kang losing in Quantamania established, and even if they left it vague at the end with the Antman monologue. It just feels weird.

jwhudexnls2025-12-24 12:46

I'll be honest, I have no idea how Doom will turn out. But I prefer this direction over Kang. What we saw of Kang and Loki really didn't do anything for me.

KDTSOT932025-12-24 13:07

I think the best way to incorporate the X-men was bringing back the OGs for a final bout with the already established avengers. Recasting and starting the origin for new X-Men this late would take time and we just got a bunch of X-men movies already. Honestly I think this is the best option.

Arealperson_12025-12-24 13:24

When your big bad can be taken down by ant man or socialist ants then you had a trash plan.

SeekerVash2025-12-24 16:02

Um...

https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/1m50dga/kevin_feige_on_switching_kang_for_doom_i_had/

They were dropping Kang before Quantumania flopped and before Majors had legal trouble. Feige already knew it wasn't going to work.

verikul2025-12-24 17:36

> And I am someone who also is in the camp of people who think this ruins Endgame

Well it literally does since it's negating Tony's sacrifice (just like with Creamy Sheev in Rise of Skywalker for Vader's character) by having some guy from another time who looks like him because remember RDJ? They could have literally cast anyone else and that BS from Comic Con where they said on RDJ can play it gets under my skin. You could've had a new, talented actor join the MCU to play a hopefully iconic Doom but they're taking the nostalgia bait route instead because they're desperate. It's a fucking Avengers film, ofc it's gonna make bank! We don't need all these returning characters, we just need a solid story because those have been few and far between for a while now.

mrbaryonyx2025-12-24 18:48

A short timeline of problems that fucked Multiverse Saga:

* Venom and Spider-Verse are successful--leading to Sony trying to do their own thing, with disastrous results, and keeping Peter from becoming a bigger element of the MCU world.

* COVID--threw a huge wrench in the way movies are produced and released and caused Disney to turn its focus to streaming content. While the initial plan was likely to build up a new saga in the same way they did Infinity Saga--slowly and with a few normal Avengers-level crossovers--COVID held them back (and they didn't want to deviate from "making a new Infinity War within six years" plan.

* Boseman's death--took from Marvel what was likely going to be one of their biggest stars moving forward. Conversations about recasting the character are kind of moot; you may as well have a conversation about recasting Iron Man.

* Nobody likes Captain Marvel anymore--the CHUDS are mad at Brie Larson and female audiences largely abandon Marvel for other properties like Barbie, so Marvel doesn't know how to market her character, leading to the first genuine box office bomb for the company.

* Scott Derrickson leaves Dr. Strange--Kind of an overlooked issue, but it caused Marvel to deviate from the original plan where Wanda would be a hero in Dr. Strange 2 who breaks bad at the very end, leading to an Avengers team-up movie (that's *not* IW scale). Sam Raimi takes over and ruins what was at the time the series' most interesting villain and introduces the concept of the multiverse being "mostly fanservice bullshit."

* Jonathan Majors is cancelled--the already unwise decision to "find a new Thanos" (they should have found a new Tony and Steve) gets derailed by Ant-Man 3 sucking and Majors being outed as a beater.

* Deadpool 3 is a massive hit--giving Disney one of two lessons: either A) people find this whole multiverse thing a bunch of silly nonsense and like seeing it mocked, or B) fanservice bullshit and a refusal to let go of legacy actors = big bucks. They picked the latter.

So basically, Marvel had a new Tony Stark (Strange), a new Thor (T'Challa), a new Steve Rogers (Carol Danvers), a new Peter Parker (still Peter Parker), a new Loki (Wanda) and a new Thanos (Kang). One died, one became unpopular, one has copyright problems, one had a disappointing character arc, and one got cancelled, so now they're back to the old cast.