Why Sam filed for copyright of the Avengers name

So, at the end of Thunderbolts\*, we learn that Sam filed for copyright of the Avengers name, as action against the New Avengers. So, I definetly think that Sam invited Bucky to his Avengers, but Bucky turned him down, and they were still on good terms after that. However, Bucky then joined up with John Walker of all people, and they, alongside a few others, as far as the public were concered, operated under Valentina Allgera de Fontaine.

Obviously, Sam never approved of a government-run Avengers, he was on Team Cap, and he probably disapproves of an Avengers team under Val of all people, who if he's keeping in touch with Shuri and the Wakandans, he probably knows about what she did during the events of Wakanda Forever. So, Sam, in an attempt to go against both a government-run and a Val-run Avengers team, filed for copyright of the name.

Commentaires

SkaterSpidey2025-12-20 18:44

Because doomsday needs some stupid humor.

Yelena: what is making your team Real Avengers?

Sam: because we have thor

kalel81462025-12-20 18:52

we have a sentry

SkaterSpidey2025-12-20 18:55

Sam: Correct me if Im wrong, but as far as I remember, the old Avengers didn't have Sentry. And on the other hand, Thor was there, and since Captain America is me, we're the Avengers.

Clamsadness2025-12-21 16:24

I 100% see that being the dialogue. “Sentry is stronger than Thor, so we’re the real Avengers”

legomaximumfigure2025-12-21 03:17

Sam: We have a she-HULK.

SecretWarsIsComing2025-12-21 03:33

LFG

Notoriously_So2025-12-20 18:47

![gif](giphy|cPV4ecMQudtKcVHvTA)

Durakus2025-12-20 18:52

It makes sense. He is keeping the Avengers as close to independent as he can. If he doesn’t have some level of control over it, then you get a “new avengers” type of situation, where someone high up can do weird stuff with you.

Let’s face it. The new avengers are good guys being lead by a bad person. That won’t last long and will cause internal conflict and external conflict. Doom will probably be able to play that angle if he isn’t a 1 and done villain. (Why did my phone change the word “that” to “fart”?? Ffs I hate this thing)

IheartPandas6662025-12-21 03:18

Up vote for typo trouvles. See auto correct on my phone changed trouvles to trouvles. It’s not even a friggin word!

sushiducktrash2025-12-21 03:46

Ducking autocorrect

iheartdev2472025-12-21 04:24

Where do you get that Valentina is leading them?

boardgamejoe2025-12-21 05:37

The whole ending of Thunderbolts makes no sense and I don't see why no one talks about it. Why would they go from being about to take her out to going to work for her because of a press conference? They should have just ignored her stunt and taken her into custody and handed her over to someone who still has authority with the details of everything she has been up to. The whole now we own you bit.. huh?

rednaxthecreature2025-12-21 07:37

They can use her for resources I think is the idea

SnooFoxes18312025-12-21 08:35

Yelena ran the numbers. She could see that if the Thunderbolts turned Val in and turned state's evidence then it was likely they all do some jail time for what they did for OXE. If they went along with Val's New Avengers plan though, they could hold their testimony over her forever. Val runs the New Avengers in name only; she signs the cheques and gets government resources for them but it's Yelena and Bucky who call the shots. At any moment they could turn Val in.

EcksFountain1322025-12-21 09:35

They don't have the authority to arrest her or any actual evidence against her. Who's gonna believe Bob is actually Sentry? Who's gonna believe he came back from the dead?

SolomonOf477042025-12-21 12:56

That's not the evidence they have against her.

EcksFountain1322025-12-21 09:32

"He wants to keep the Avengers independent". Have we all forgotten he was going to recreate the Avengers at the behest of Ross? No way was Ross gonna allow him to operate independently

Fun-Poet53382025-12-21 19:53

Why not just pick a new name then?

Myhtological2025-12-20 18:56

He dragged his feet being Capetian America then he dragged his feet making the avengers. I’m kinda done with his high horse shit

casicilian2025-12-20 19:05

No longer does Stark finance the team; he needs to sell merchandise to keep the lights on.

Cruitire2025-12-20 19:16

If it’s anything like the comics, Tony set up a foundation to finance the Avengers, so they would continue to be financed after his death.

CulturalDragonfly6312025-12-21 03:25

Except that it was made clear in FATWS that that was not the case.

iheartdev2472025-12-21 04:25

How was that clear?

Kalandros-X2025-12-21 04:30

Because Sam is broke

iheartdev2472025-12-21 04:30

How does that mean Stark isn’t paying for the Avengers?

Wooden-Radish-90082025-12-20 20:01

That's why he recruits Ant-Man. Get those sweet sweet book sales

Wooden-Radish-90082025-12-20 19:05

I guarantee it's because he doesn't want Valentina associated with the Avenger's public image, which, honestly, is completely understandable.

JyconX2025-12-20 19:38

Precisely

The_River_Is_Still2025-12-21 03:30

Indubitably.

dotplaid2025-12-21 15:20

Rootin' tootin'

![gif](giphy|3oFzmqXMDtHH8vEVhe)

Peimai2025-12-21 03:37

This also sounds like a silly plot point when you have to explain why the Avengers aren't all together.

BlackSpyder7142025-12-21 14:59

i wonder how they're gonna resolve this in the movie bcus they have to work tgt somehow

the_old_coday1822025-12-21 18:40

Steve is going to talk sense into his two bff’s (Sam and Bucky)

CulturalDragonfly6312025-12-21 19:14

It's really too bad that Steve wasn't there to talk sense into them in FATWS. Or basic human decency.

Fun-Poet53382025-12-21 19:50

Yeah. You'd think the shield would atleast come with some kinda crash course video from Steve.

cyprinthedeathwitch2025-12-22 18:51

One of those detention videos he made for schools. "So, you now have to carry the Shield..."

![gif](giphy|duexIlfr9yYwYE23UA)

BlackSpyder7142025-12-23 05:45

this just made me think that steve would've probably treated walker well compared to sam and bucky

Epic_J23382025-12-21 13:06

I do also believe part of it is to annoy Bucky

GatorBo692025-12-23 01:29

He and Bucky have become close friends at this point. Like best friends. It was nothing against Bucky but more against Valentina.

SamXTeck2025-12-21 14:20

Exactly

SkekJay2025-12-21 00:00

He wants to keep the Avengers name in the right hands. Shame the copyright is legally owned by the government so he doesn't really have a claim to it from what I hear

iheartdev2472025-12-21 04:27

Since he was actually on the Avengers pre-End Game, I think he calls dibs.

EcksFountain1322025-12-21 10:29

He was on the team for a year and then went Rouge. After Civil War the only actual legal Avengers were Team Tony. So no. That doesn't mean he can call dibs.

SkekJay2025-12-21 12:51

Yep, and Tony held the copyright so now he's dead it probably defaulted to Pepper, and since Stark Industries went under investigation, the government probably took the Avengers copyright since Pepper wasn't actively using it

Clamsadness2025-12-21 16:31

True, Sam was actually never on the team for any significant battles. The only Avengers mission we know Sam took part in *as an Avenger* was hunting down Crossbones in Lagos. He fought against Thanos, but was not officially on the team at the time.

Realistic_Analyst_262025-12-21 02:06

Sam sees the Avengers as a symbol. He thinks the Thunderbolts treat it like a job to make money off of sponsors. In reality, the Thunderbolts see it as their duty to the world. The movie will have them come to terms with each other.

MrFiendish2025-12-21 02:29

I’d still like to know how he can do all of these acrobatics and not suffer damage. Hawkeye’s body is nearly broken, and he never had to deal with throwing the shield.

meme-com-poop2025-12-21 05:35

because vibranium is basically magic in the MCU

BiddyKing2025-12-21 06:58

Like other dude said, vibranium. It absorbs all the kinetic energy from any type of impact (and with the bonus of Shuri’s tech that stores it for a later kinetic blast) which is how he can fly full speed into the ground and still be okay

culesamericano2025-12-21 02:43

because he was afraid steve rodgers would be back and try and take the avengers under his wing again

SerialWallflower2025-12-21 02:51

TBH I kinda like the “West Chesapeake Valley Thunderbolts”. They just have to find that girl whose power is “making a poop”. 😉

GrayRoberts2025-12-21 02:56

He can't copyright the name. He can trademark it.

JessicaDAndy2025-12-21 03:24

Yep, that annoys me too.

Airion692025-12-21 09:11

I know they dumbed it down so everyone would understand the joke but it annoys the shit out of me. He doesn’t own the name and he didn’t invent it.

pigeonwiggle2025-12-21 10:07

headcanon? he did trademark it. but the thunderbolts aren't the most clear with their words. so They just throw the C word around loosely and interchangeably.

Clamsadness2025-12-21 16:18

Yeah, this is the most likely. I highly doubt Red Guardian and Bucky are well-versed in IP law, so I could see them using copyright as a catch-all.

mrbaryonyx2025-12-22 18:11

> They just throw the C word around loosely and interchangeably.

well they work with Val a lot so I don't blame them

BlackJimmy882025-12-21 10:13

To be honest, I think it was just intended as a funny moment in Thunderbolts. I doubt it really means anything.

DCangst2025-12-21 22:59

Yes. I wrote a post about that pet peeve of mine.

asscop992025-12-21 03:00

From the outside The New Avengers seem very shady.

kulitchipon2025-12-21 06:06

Oh definitely. Russians, failed Cap America, and Bucky whose past as Winter Soldier is def shady. Not sure how much the world knows about Ghost, though, probably not a lot

EcksFountain1322025-12-21 10:27

Yet Bucky was able to get elected to Congress. 😂. I'm just thinking how the OG Avengers consisted of a Russian spy, s SHIELD assassin, an arms dealer, a rage monster and a Norse god.

kulitchipon2025-12-21 10:29

I mean a literal GOD and a billionaire could definitely turn public opinion upwards lmao

EcksFountain1322025-12-21 10:49

I mean insofar at people tend to blindly worship the rich regardless of thier actual actions. Yeah

Excaliburn3d2025-12-22 02:34

Are you implying that Steve was the most heroic one?

verissimoallan2025-12-21 03:01

Yeah, I assume it must be something like that.

From Sam's point of view, all the Thunderbolts (with the obvious exception of Bucky) must be murderers and horrible people working for a monster like Valentina. The only other person on this team he knows besides Bucky is John Walker, with whom he definitely didn't have an ideal friendship in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier. He doesn't know what the Thunderbolts/New Avengers went through in the events of that movie. He probably prefers to do everything to keep the Avengers' public image away from them.

marvelcomics222025-12-21 04:23

I don't think he's against the New Avengers being former criminials, and also don't think he thinks John is irredeemable, but Val, she's probably the issue.

Affectionate-Bus9272025-12-21 03:03

why didn't Nick Fury got the rights for the Avengers name ? he sold it or what ?

marvelcomics222025-12-21 04:28

I don't think Fury ever needed rights, it originated as a S.H.I.E.L.D. project, and unless the names of Government projects are trademarked, there were no rights.

EcksFountain1322025-12-21 09:39

But that's the thing. The OG Avengers were literally a government project so Sam saying he doesn't want Avengers run by the government is kind of crazy. Also he was working with Ross, the architect of the Accords who created Hulk. Seems pretty hypocritical of him really.

SpeedBlitzX2025-12-21 03:06

Makes me wonder how much of the Avengers Doomsday movie will actually be about Dr Doom and his plans, and how much will it be about the Avengers all getting this sorted out.

CulturalDragonfly6312025-12-21 03:45

Maybe. OTOH, if they spend too much screentime on characters most of the audience already doesn't particularly care about or doesn't like, that's going to hurt the box office, and given how much they're spending to bring back RDJ and how much they're likely spending to bring back Chris Evans, that's going to matter a lot. My guess is that Marvel Studios was told that if these two extremely expensive Avengers movies underperform, the MCU is done. So, it's possible, but not too likely.

LightningLad20292025-12-21 03:54

I doubt they will actually get it together in Doomsday. Like every other event requiring the Avengers, the team has to reach a low point before rallying together. Being helpless as the multiverse is ripped apart and forced to fight for survival in Secret Wars is absolutely the catalyst all these hero factions need to get their heads out of their asses and work together.

marvelcomics222025-12-21 04:21

Five minutes on the name thing at best.

CaptHayfever2025-12-21 17:49

I don't expect more than maybe 90 seconds on the name thing. It doesn't require nearly as much cleanup as some people think.

iheartdev2472025-12-21 04:26

I would love for the next Avengers movie be about the Avengers and the team. But it will be about Doom, maybe the FF and time traveling Steve Rogers with a guest appearance by teams called Avengers.

SpeedBlitzX2025-12-21 09:20

Unless Cap returns somehow to unite both "teams" :o Being the glue to hold them all together. Maybe??

He does have that effect on people, especially when there's a bigger picture situation and both Sam and Bucky are his buds.

Clamsadness2025-12-21 16:20

Yeah, I can 100% see the teams bickering and then Steve Rogers shows up and tells them that they’re all Avengers, “anyone who fights to save our planet is an Avenger” or something.

HardcoreKaraoke2025-12-21 09:03

I don't think it will get sorted out. It sets them up as a disjointed mess that Doom can manipulate and pick apart. The end result will probably be a more cohesive unit but I'm not expecting like an Endgame team up battle scene vs. Doom.

A lot of disagreements among the heroes about how to go about everything will make things pretty easy for him.

CourtScot2025-12-21 15:32

My big worry for Doomsday is that Marvel is going to clean house with the Thunderbolts. Keep the ones they want (Bucky, Yelena) and add them to Sam’s avengers - and kill the rest.

CulturalDragonfly6312025-12-21 19:52

That's my worry, too.

CulturalDragonfly6312025-12-21 19:53

Or kill off all the Thunderbolts quickly just to show how much of a threat Doom is in the first few minutes.

Fun-Poet53382025-12-21 19:51

Imagine 40% of the film is just depositions and court hearings lmao.

ohmeohmyelliejean2025-12-23 23:33

Doom is the lawyer representing the Thunderbolts for what can only be described as 'reasons'.

Fun-Poet53382025-12-24 11:40

Sam picks Harvey Specter and Matt Murdock then, fuck it.

CulturalDragonfly6312025-12-21 03:27

So he has no money and can't even get a bank loan, but he can somehow afford lawyers to sue the rival team after farting around for something like two or three years without making his own team. Apparently, Sam only wants things after he sees that someone has them.

silverBruise_322025-12-21 15:40

Maybe he hired a lawyer who works on contingency, and thinks it's a slam dunk. And you're right, he's not exactly proactive in trying to achieve his goals. That alone is not a good quality for Captain America.

Clamsadness2025-12-21 16:34

I just assume he has more money since restarting the team. The President of the United States personally asked Sam to restart the Avengers. Yes, that president resigned in disgrace but that doesn’t undo everything he did as president. Presumably he earmarked some funds for Sam’s new Avengers project.

silverBruise_322025-12-21 16:35

I guess that's possible, too

Arthur_1892025-12-21 03:30

Still a dick move by sam imo. He had his chance to start his own avengers team, didn’t want too, didn’t do shit to help with the void then decides he changed his mind and screws over the people who actually stepped up

marvelcomics222025-12-21 04:21

That is factually wrong. Sam spends most of Brave New World contemplating if he should rebuild the Avengers, especially under Ross of all people, and by the end of it, he concluded that he should, and recruited Joaquin. How do you know that he hasn't spent the six months between Brave New World and Thunderbolts\* forming the Avengers, only for this new group to be announced under Val of all people. Also, the Void thing lasted for like an hour, two at best.

EcksFountain1322025-12-21 10:35

So your argument is basically - absence of evidence. "We don't know Sam didn't do that". Actually we do. Val was able to create Sentry precisely because the Avengers weren't around. If Sam had already created his team someone would have mentioned it. Nobody does.

Plus the rest is pure headcanon. We've never seen Shuri have any contact with Sam. We have no evidence Sam invited Bucky to be on his team but I'm willing to bet he didn't since Bucky had to invite himself over to help Sam. Plus Sam could have at least contacted Bucky after he saw half New York get wrecked to make sure he was okay. Instead he just called his lawyers.

EcksFountain1322025-12-21 11:16

Not only that, but Sam has had zero contact with any of the other Avengers since Endgame. Where was he when Wanda was having her breakdown, or Spiderman had his crisis? Bruce is working with Wong and Carol: not Sam. Also contrast Sam's reaction with Bucky's. When Torres is injured Bucky flies thousands of miles to check in on Sam: whem Sam see's NY being trashed, does he check in on Bucky? No: he calls his lawyers.

pkjoan2025-12-21 14:31

Ever since Sam became Cap, it's like he became a worse different character. He was a lot better as Falcon.

r0b6662025-12-21 03:33

I was going to post that it makes no sense that Sam would have the rights to the name, but realized in universe he was probably the 1st person who was an actual member who tried to copyright the name.

Can't see any of the remaining OGs doing that, and Fury wouldn't have bothered.

Makes sense Sam would want to prevent the name from being used by a government sponsored team.

huntertheram2025-12-21 03:34

“He is a litigious man” - RG

Adorable_Spell75622025-12-21 08:15

But Red Gurdian is smart, New AvengerZ. There is no copyright with a Z

Buhos_En_Pantelones2025-12-21 03:42

I could be wrong obviously, but I took that line to be more comedic than an actual future plot point. Wasn't it just to set up Red Guardian to say funny things?

kulitchipon2025-12-21 06:02

Could also set up a rift between the two Avenger groups

Buhos_En_Pantelones2025-12-21 06:35

Which is resolved in a five second scene of quips haha

kulitchipon2025-12-21 06:37

Yeah because it's not really that serious esp in the face of an intergalactic threat

ymi172025-12-21 03:42

As an IP lawyer it goes all over me that they call this a “copyright”. He might have trademarked the name. He didn’t copyright it (and couldn’t, legally!)

Chezzymann2025-12-21 04:03

Maybe in this universe the ip laws are slightly different lol

Jenkes_of_Wolverton2025-12-21 08:52

Remember when Jennifer Walters had that issue with the She-Hulk name being used by Titania? Sam probably did.

ymi172025-12-21 18:15

It doesn't really make sense if that's the case, then. "Copyright" literally means right to copy. It requires authorship. Sam Wilson didn't "author" the name Avengers - if anyone did, I suppose it was Nick Fury while working for the US Government/SHIELD. But a single word doesn't have the requisite creativity that prevents others from using it.

"Trademark" literally means "mark of trade" - goods or services provided under a label. It's questionable whether in-universe, the Avengers are truly providing a commercial service (unlike in our universe, where it's definitely a registrable and protectable trademark that is actively policed).

Annual_Use_34312025-12-21 04:14

It also seems to indicate Stark Industries moved away from funding The Avengers, because there's no way Pepper Potts or Happy would let that lapse without reason.

Sam's gonna get some of that merchandising residuals and get the team paid for once.

iheartdev2472025-12-21 04:23

Why? Because MCU Brain trust thought it would be funny and as usual no -relevant??

ubutterscotchpine2025-12-21 04:33

He doesn’t want the Avengers under government control. Literally the entire ideal he was fighting for in Civil War.

EcksFountain1322025-12-21 10:41

Yet his team was going to be run by Ross aka Mr Government Control himself

brendamn2025-12-21 04:59

What if doomsday is just Suits but with super heroes

irregardlessbro2025-12-21 07:18

Sam is always salty, just like the Ant-Man fight.

usmannaeem2025-12-21 07:49

What did Yolana mean, in what context? When she said we own you now, to Valentina?

Wrcarter42025-12-21 09:36

She made it clear that her place in control was not safe. That Yolana seizes an opportunity to remind Val that she can now be restrained so to speak. She’s resourceful head of the operation for PR sake and possible assignments, but they have some authority to pushback if they feel uneasy. Especially when WS is the conscious of The Thunderbolts at the current.

usmannaeem2025-12-21 15:52

Any thoughts on how this could play out in Doomsday?

Wrcarter42025-12-22 06:35

TBH I have many ideas, and then non at all. Val is such a unique character, and her capabilities are quite extensive, but what does that means for cosmic threats…??? 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️

Remarkable_Regret1492025-12-21 08:04

[ Removed by Reddit ]

nibblepower2025-12-21 08:09

The least believable thing to me is that Tony NEVER bothered to trademark it. Even if he didn't wanna make money off of it, surely he wouldn't want hammer Industries or some other petty butthurt competitor to find a way to get the rights to The Avengers name? Hell, the fact he never had Pepper do him a solid and have Stark Industries snag it to just sit on it?

MisterGoldiloxx2025-12-21 08:25

The kryptonite of all villains...copyright.

INKatana2025-12-21 08:56

Bro has had years to form his avengers, but hasn’t done anything about it. It’s ony after someone else calls dibs on the name, that sam feels entitled to it, and decides to sue them.

That honestly makes him sound kinda pathetic, and bratty. Which is sad, because Sam used to be pretty cool character.

Also, if the government recognizes thunderbolts as the new avengers, does sam even have a solid case? Being captain america doesn’t automatically make him entitled to the avengers. Steve might've been the leader of his Avengers, but the whole thing was still funded by Tony.

sam didn’t even have enough money to save his house. Would he really have enough money for this lawsuit?

mrfonsocr2025-12-21 15:54

I mean… Sam has always had quite the bratty attitude. Dude is a snob.

Strydhaizer2025-12-21 09:15

Honestly I assume there is a missing story line in between as Armor Wars should have came before Thunderbolts.

EcksFountain1322025-12-21 09:31

Yeah. No. Sam has zero basis for objection to Bucky working with Walker when he was literally working with Ross. And in fact was going to recreate the Avengers at Ross behest.

marvelcomics222025-12-21 11:48

Sam wasn't happy to work with Ross, that was clear, and the only reason he tried to take Ross up on his offer was so he could try to get Isaiah out a prison, also clear.

Uppercussion2025-12-21 09:48

I found this tidbit to be so out of character for Sam. I always felt Sam shared Steve's notion that helping people was all that mattered. Filing a copyright shows spite, which is so uncharacteristic of Sam.

EcksFountain1322025-12-21 10:18

Sorry but what? Sam is never shown as having any contact with Shuri. It was Bucky who contacted Shuri to get him his suit.

Even if he did, it's doubtful Shuri knew of Val's involvement unless Everett Ross specifically told her. Which since he's confirmed to be a skrull seems unlikely.

EndStorm2025-12-21 11:07

He should file for lawsuit against Marvel Studios for giving him a terrible show and movie. He deserves better.

TaylorDangerTorres2025-12-21 11:47

First Deadpool 2 rips off The Great Lakes Avengers by copying Mr. Immortal's origin, and now Thunderbolts rips off The Great Lakes Avenegers by stealing the "Avengers" name copyright infringement arc 😤😤 we can't catch a break

ThePhenom2k252025-12-21 13:20

He just doesn’t want Valentina or Madame Hydra as some of us know her as, involved with Avengers

Amazing_Personality82025-12-21 13:50

Update avengers dooms day is a legal drama about this court case

26from852025-12-21 14:02

the fact he is taking it to court to stop someone from using the name feels very corpo to me, Steve would never do that.

always thought of the avengers moniker as akin to open source.

Thanatos_562025-12-21 14:24

I hope this doesn't sound petty, but who would actually hold the copyright to the name in the first place?

Pretend for a moment that Endgame hasn't happened yet. You've got a team of heroes, some with powers, some without. Everyone knows them as "The Avengers"? But who actually holds the copyright in this case?

I mean, Tony Stark most likely holds the copyright for the Stark Corporation, since he's the owner and it's an actual business. And Hank Pym probably owns the copyright for any technology he develops, since he'll want to keep the tech from falling into the wrong hands; and also so that he can directly profit from any commercial applications of the tech.

But what sort of "business" do the Avengers do? AFAIK, they don't charge anyone for their actions. And it's hinted that Tony is effectively sponsoring them: paying all their bills and overheads, etc.

So why is the copyright of "The Avengers" even necessary? And who would even hold the rights to the name of it *was* necessary to copyright it?

🤔🤔🤔

MACGamer12025-12-21 14:30

I still think this is a way to get She Hulk into the fight haha.

Diortheking2025-12-21 15:17

They jumped and beat tf out john then bucky joins his avengers team after telling sam he didnt need one lmao

Daisuash2025-12-22 01:43

For me it's more confusing as to why he would be the owner of the trademark if he was part of the group for like fifteen minutes.

It's even more confusing than giving him the shield.