While it’s a great film, CW being a cap film made it too one sided
Both sides had good points and flaws but I feel like the majority of fans here ignore the flaws in team cap’s side. I believe CW should’ve been an avengers movie or just simply a marvel movie to show a nuance take on both sides.
And before team cap fans say “we can’t trust the government” the same applies even MORE for heroes. Almost every film post civil war proves why heroes can’t be trusted as well. Peter and strange casting a spell on the whole world TWICE, Wanda holding a town hostage, Hawkeye turning into a serial killer, Scott leaving advanced tech for his teenage daughter to play with and almost unleashing Kang out into the world, the list goes on and on.
It’s barely any different than the concept of police having body cams, they’re meant to protect us but due to their abuse of power (police brutality) measures are taken to prevent that. Now what if the police say “but what about my Freedom?” Mind you these are just men with guns…there are heroes with GODLIKE powers and we’re putting our full trust on them????
Plus if you think about it, it’s kind’ve contradicting to be team cap and also mad at Tony for creating ultron. Team cap main stance is heroes having their own freedom….the exact same type “freedom” tony had to make ultron. The same freedom Peter and strange had to do a spell on the whole world. The same freedom Hawkeye had to become a serial killer, etc Not saying I support Tony making Ultron but it’s also a perfect example of heroes having freedom and a lot of people missed that in the film due to it being a cap film.
And before team cap fans say “we can’t trust the government” the same applies even MORE for heroes. Almost every film post civil war proves why heroes can’t be trusted as well. Peter and strange casting a spell on the whole world TWICE, Wanda holding a town hostage, Hawkeye turning into a serial killer, Scott leaving advanced tech for his teenage daughter to play with and almost unleashing Kang out into the world, the list goes on and on.
It’s barely any different than the concept of police having body cams, they’re meant to protect us but due to their abuse of power (police brutality) measures are taken to prevent that. Now what if the police say “but what about my Freedom?” Mind you these are just men with guns…there are heroes with GODLIKE powers and we’re putting our full trust on them????
Plus if you think about it, it’s kind’ve contradicting to be team cap and also mad at Tony for creating ultron. Team cap main stance is heroes having their own freedom….the exact same type “freedom” tony had to make ultron. The same freedom Peter and strange had to do a spell on the whole world. The same freedom Hawkeye had to become a serial killer, etc Not saying I support Tony making Ultron but it’s also a perfect example of heroes having freedom and a lot of people missed that in the film due to it being a cap film.
Commentaires
Yes collateral damage happens. It's always a War for the Freedom and Survival of the Human Race because the Avengers fight such big threats. It's really only Thor 1 and Iron Man 2 that weren't big stakes - Loki wanted the throne of Asgard, didn't care about Earth and the guy with the Whips wanted to kill Tony. Everything else is a massive deal which would waste time if the UN would have to vote on every single action the Avengers (or individual members) can take.
Just nonsense. Cap is right.
But the same thing you brought up could be easily said for Steve too. Just how he brought in Peter, Steve did the same with Wanda. Earlier he said “she’s just a kid” when arguing about her treatment in the facility but yet still recruits her to fight by his side. Especially a character like her who needed to seek help, not be in the battlefield. And then after endgame, without consoling her or having someone from the team to do so, he left her on her own, traumatized and alone, which led to the events of the show snd MoM (not saying that’s solely caps fault but this did play a major role in that)
They didn't sign the Accords, and the UN pretend to be against Human Rights Violations, and Wanda was never charged not convinced of a crime, yet imprisoned all the same, so why weren't the UN demanding her release in the first place?
Cap played no role in what happened to Wanda - he left a whole team to hang out with her. They failed her.
You guys consistently bring up “trust” but turn the other way when heroes break that trust. That’s my whole point, I’m not saying Tony’s right or anything but the same criticism yall have for his side, yall ignore for the other side. It’s hypocritical.
And Wanda becoming a villain is also my point. Y’all fear the government and want superheroes to have freedom, look how she had “freedom” to become a villain🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️but nah team cap was 100% right I guess
and don’t say “they failed her” cap did. Cap mentored her, he took her in, and he advocated for her. Just how Tony felt conflicted to invent a Time Machine because of Peter, cap didn’t have nowhere near that same sentiment for Wanda. The very least he could’ve done was at least order the avengers to keep an eye on her. Sure you can blame the avengers as a whole, but cap deserves most of it out of all of them. Notice how iron man took certain measures with Peter’s suit to not let him get ahead of himself, cap didn’t have that same sentiment with Wanda.
And who is “he” when you say he was a villain?
How would *The UN* have stopped her? Also if the Accords were actually real then The Dark Order would have captured Doc Strange because Iron Man would be fighting Wong and trying to arrest them both. Then Thanos would win. But nah team tony was 100% right I guess
The fuck he did. He left an entire team, including people who've been through grief and trauma - led by a *councillor*. Tony refused to help make a time machine due to Morgan and only agreed to help if they didn't change the past (and save all the people who died because of and during the blip, only return those blipped).
Hawkeye. He became a Villain due his family getting blipped, became a Serial Killer, joined the team to bring back his family, wanted to kill himself due to guilt and then retired from said guilt, returning to take back the costume he was a Serial Killer in and then passing on the mantel to someone who he wants to make better choices: Kate
Steve was never against accountability he was against the accords. Specifically the accords and what the accords do.
The movie showed that everything steve was worried could happen would happen.
What happens when we are sent somewhere after someone who is innocent? The whole man hunt for bucky who didn't commit any of the crimes in the movie he was accused of (bombing the un).
What happens when there is somewhere we need to be and they wont let us? Tony got the actual concrete evidence that bucky had nothing to do with it AND that zemo who did do the bombing, was heading towards 5 more winter soldiers. Ross tells him he doesn't care. Stay put.
The accords don't make people accountable, it just shifts the blame up to the commanders while removing their ability to choose.
What, exactly, are the bad takes in Steve's argument?
2. Steve tells Tony “she’s just a kid” but goes on to recruit her to fight alongside him. On top of that, he’s frustrated at how the media talks about her, but they don’t even know the full extent of the bad things she’s done (like what she did to hulk which caused the chaos during his fight w iron man in AoU) but like he said…she’s just a kid.
3. Steve worries about the government controlling them…he acts no different in infinity war when he made the decision for the whole universe to not kill vision (not even human btw) he didn’t talk about it with the team nor the public, he made the decision himself just because he saw it fit. If Tony did this, yall would never let it go.
Once again I’m not saying Tony or the accord’s is right but a lot of the criticism yall have for team iron man yall equally ignore for cap.
2. She IS just a kid. A kid radicalized by Hydra with a legit bone to pick against stark who has been putting in the work to do good and earn forgiveness. Her being a kid doesn't make her a weapon, which is what tony was allowing the goverment to clasify her as. No warrent. No trial. Just house arrest. What if you were detained without even being told you were? What if you found out? Would you fight for your freedom or just be like "yeah cool. I support the government classifying people however they want and doing whatever they want to them without trual.
3. Steve didn't control anyone. He told a living person that they didn't have to sacrifice himself and that they would fight for every single life because every single life matters. Not only is this another attempt at an emotional appeal, this has nothing to do with the accords.
For all it's flaws I still have a soft spot for that comic event. It's what got me back into comics after not reading them for a long time. A lot of the tie-ins were really good too.
Sure, there is a fight at the end, but to me Steve beating Tony physically doesn't automatically mean the movie is saying Steve was right.
The fight was to show there's a disagreement that they wouldn't be able to reconcille over a couple drinks the day after, not to pick a winner of their moral/ethical debate.