The Avengers were so dumb in Captain America: Civil War

So, i know this movie has been talked to death at this point and after rewatching the film I've read through a lot of discussions and a lot of good points, but I've yet to see anyone mention what i consider the elephant in the room which is suprising. Now aside from the more obvious issues like Zemo's plan being somewhat implausible or the fact that the film is basically just an Avengers movie and not a Captain America movie, we need to talk about those damn Sokovia Accords.

Look, you can argue the logic of the accords all day long, but i think we can all agree that while some version of the accords is definitely a good idea, the version that was ACTUALLY put out by the UN in CW was a blatant power grab to try and control the Avengers for personal agendas. This is of course no surprise considering Ross (the poster child of "i want your power for myself") is the one who gave the Avengers the ultimatum.

Now here's the elephant in the room I was talking about. Even though the version of the Accords presented were idiotic at best, way too many of the Avengers were more than happy to go along with them. For Tony in particular it makes sense, he was at a point where he was fine to go along with whatever because he just couldn't handle his guilt anymore. But what about the rest of the Avengers? Rhodey mostly makes sense, he's always gonna back both Tony and government decisions so that one's a no brainer regardless of how dumb the law was. But you're telling me that the super computer VISION out of all the characters didn't see a single issue with the Accords? He should have seen all the potential issues from 50 miles away but instead he makes this stupid argument about "causality" that doesn't even make any sense cause there are tons of things that pre-date Tony. Or what about Black Panther and Wakanda who spearheaded the Accords except they then broke the rules they themselves suggested at the very first opportunity? Either way, of all of them, it's Vision that really makes no damn sense for me. He was shown as incredibly intelligent in Avengers 2 but then in Civil War it's like he became this bumbling idiot. And it's not just that he was naive, he literally becomes a moron just so the writers could throw him on Tony's team.

None of the Avengers bother to defend themselves, no one bothers to propose alternative solutions to the accords or find ways to adjust them. It was literally bend the knee or die, born of an argument from the UN and Ross that didn't make sense and was a blatant power grab that the Avengers somehow just couldn't see.

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Commentaires

Gorguf622025-12-09 00:56

Tony says in Berlin they can be amended.

SillySwimmer88062025-12-09 01:07

Yeah they "can" be, but will they be? These are governments we're talking about, when was the last time a government made a change that gave them less power? Freakin never. It just doesn't happen. If they didn't put in the safeguards needed from the beginning then they just weren't happening

snarkywombat2025-12-09 10:58

Well, seems that several Amendments to the US Constitution are purposefully giving more power to the people and NOT the government. But sure.

Alpha_Storm2025-12-09 01:22

You don't "amend" AFTER you sign. That is literally giving away all your leverage to get an amendment. It's never going to happen.

MakeShiftDie2025-12-09 00:58

Everything makes sense when you have a British accent

dunkindonato2025-12-09 01:16

Vision isn't just a computer anymore, he developed emotions and he sees the accords as a way to "protect" Wanda who had just caused collateral damage that killed many people. I don't get the sense that he was 100% behind the accords, just that it was logically the best choice out of a bad situation.

The Avengers *have* caused collateral damage, and they *have* been operating without oversight. Any attempt to put regulations on them (and any superhero group) was just a matter of time.

nypinta2025-12-09 01:16

These are pretty much all the reasons I do not like Civil War actually. It's always bugged me that no one thought how odd it was that Ross was the one being put in charge as if it wasn't suspicious as fuck. Or that half of the things he used as evidence against them where either the Avengers defending the Earth from something way outside anyone's control (an alien invasion) or how many millions of lives saved because of their actions (Steve taking out the hellicarriers literally targeting a million people in their first salvo).

I didn't like Tony's reasoning actually either. Because in Ultron he's certain that he and Bruce didn't create Ultron because they weren't even close and yet in Civil War he's all gloom and doom and I am become Death. Then he tried to bully everyone else into signing. And then he literally ignored them and Ross the moment they were a hinderance to him when he decided to go after Cap and Bucky in Serbia.

I loved Black Panther and Wakanda is amazing. But yeah, they were being huge hypocrites.

And yeah, Zemo's plan only works if he had an inside person and someone put forth the theory that Sharon was working for him to push them all in certain directions and it works so much better if that was true.

Dangerous_Wave2025-12-09 01:31

Can we just ignore how Zemo was able to waltz into the most secure blah blah and, in a world with facial recognition, they just looked at his driver's license, said 'seems legit' and never checked his face against any database? Never checked his fingerprints?

Nobody was meeting this big important psychiatrist at the airport, knowing he's about to go toe to toe with The Winter Soldier, or if they did, nobody noticed when that security detail didn't check in?

And the Avengers not saying anything...still burns my ass that *nothing* of Steve's personal experience (circa 1930s and 40s) with basically *everything* in the Accords was ever brought up.

UnbindA112025-12-09 01:32

As far as I could tell, there was no one on Tony’s side, other than Rhodey as well as Tony himself, who both fully understood the ramifications of the accords *and* fully believed they would be a working solution.

Natasha had an axe dangling over her head ever since she released SHIELD’s records, so she’s really just on board because she has to. Else, she’ll be forced to go on the run, which is exactly what happens after the airport fight.

It’s ambiguous just how much Vision believes the accords are a good thing—the fact that he leaves the team between Civil War and Infinity War suggests he doesn’t very much—but he ultimately wanted to minimize conflict, especially when it negatively affects Wanda. The accords would do that, at least on paper.

After his father’s death, T’Challa really didn’t care about the accords anymore, not that he’d be affected by them anyway; all he wanted was Bucky.

Peter’s a naive kid that got roped in by Tony. I highly doubt he heard much about the accords themselves, let alone fully understood them.

Sharikacat2025-12-09 23:32

Natasha went back into her espionage training and told them that it would be easier for them to work out exceptions by being on the inside. Play ball for now, earn some trust, and then work on making adjustments to the Accords as a friendly insider rather than a hostile naysayer.

I don't think T'Challa would have been subject to the Accords. Wasn't it specific to the Avengers? Either way, if Wakanda didn't sign on to the Accords, T'Challa would claim not to be governed by them. Besides, everything the UN does lacks enforcement capabilities and relies on the individual countries to carry out those terms on their own.

snarkywombat2025-12-09 01:53

It being basically an Avengers movie was not an issue, it was by design. And it's also a Captain America movie because of the heavy focus on his search for and protecting his best friend, Bucky. Again, fully intentional and not an issue with the film if you understand that.

And the Accords are obviously a power grab. That's the crux of the issue with them and why several of the Avengers won't sign them. Did you even watch that scene?

The elephant in the room? The members willing to sign, Vision included, recognize that they've caused massive property damage, unnecessary loss of life (despite their best efforts), and have gone completely unchecked around the globe which has really only attracted more challengers and exacerbated the loss of life/property. I do believe Vision even says this. Cap felt that their freedoms as people outweigh the world's right to police them and their bodies even with powers. Again, he voiced this, if I recall correctly.

Could they have talked it out more to find a solution that appeases all parties? Maybe. But I'm not here to watch a courtroom drama. I wanna see Rhodey getting blasted out of the sky by Vision after Antman throws a fuel truck.

This whole post just tells me you either didn't pay attention to the movie or you don't actually understand the dialogue. Maybe both.

SillySwimmer88062025-12-09 02:04

I agree that it would have been boring as a court room drama, and I'd like to clarify that I actually do very much like the film. However, in order to not break immersion, writers need to provide a good reason why all parties involved don't just talk things out aside from just "this is the story we want to tell so these are the things that happen just cause." And yes they've caused property damage but only while trying to prevent FURTHER property damage and loss of life. The Accords would only have succeeded in making the Avengers too slow to respond to help anyone if they were properly followed. The version that was presented was a bad idea from top to bottom. At the end of the day, those Accords would only have done more harm than good, and yet some of the characters like Vision or Tony either somehow couldn't see it or just didn't care.

snarkywombat2025-12-09 10:56

Again, you seem to have completely ignored some dialogue in the film. These points are mentioned. And the characters willing to sign think they're causing more harm by being unchecked. The characters aren't being dumb for the sake of the story. The Accords being bad as presented was the reason the group was so split, it's a core story element. Half saw they were taking away their personal rights just because they have powers. The other half saw it as they've caused way too much damage to innocent people with zero repercussions and the Accords are a way of minimizing that damage.

The issues you seem to have with the film are intentional choices directly related to why the story unfolds the way it does. They aren't problems with the story just because you failed to understand character motivations that were clearly delivered in the film.

spidervenom6192025-12-09 03:12

1. Natasha whole's thing in Civil was to keep the family no matter the cost, she didn't want lose any of them, She didn't "signed" for herself, She Signed for Tony, Rhodey, Vis, and later on Pete. She was trying to get Steve, Wanda and Clint to signed cause she was trying to keep the family together.

2. The only person who Vision cared about was keeping Wanda safe from insanity Crowd that was after her head for no reason at all.

3. T'Challa was about one thing and one thing only, getting his paws on Bucky no matter the cost, he's the reason why Nat's left the team in the first place cause he was taking it way too far and was willing to kill Steve.

4. As for the Kid, he's simply didn't even signed the Accords (you can't convinced that both Tony and Nat didn't signed his name under a fake name or something, I'll simply don't believe you, it's not in any of those two character to signed a kid into war.

Forsaken_Professor792025-12-09 20:07

T'Challa was never pro accords...He was pro "Get Bucky and get revenge". The Dora clearly just follow whatever their King wants. T'Chaka was pro accords. Wakanda was isolationist and in the eyes of the world an isolationist 3rd world country. I wouldn't say T'Challa necessarily broke the rules as he was pretty much sanctioned in every action he took in the movie as both a monarch and signee. He was apart of Tony's task force/Avengers as he it served his goals/endstate.

Vision is not a super computer in fact he's being blinded by his developing feelings for Wanda (not to mention he has Bruce and Tony's personalities inside of him. This was pretty much thrown in your face several times in the film and in Infinity War...namely him shooting down Rhodey. Vision is not Ultron and that's kindve the point. Vision never argues in favor of the accords he just says they are are complicit in the creation of their enemies...which is the truth. He seems to be acting in protection of the team and namely Wanda which again is in line with Tony's logic.

Rhodey is a military man through and through. He's a field grade commissioned officer at that. He didn't exactly have a choice in the matter. Not saying he hasn't bent the rules but the Accords certainly were a bit higher than disobeying a few orders. The US military is a bit more flexible in rules than most other nations it's what makes us unpredictable on the battlefield. Breaking international law isn't one of those things though so naturally Rhodey knew the limit and genuinely believed the Avengers needed to be under gov't control and who better to know that than the guy who's been there from the beginning with Tony and his antics.

Nat was playing both sides naturally but her loyalties were to Steve and Clint. Tony was so blind in his shame campaign he couldn't see the obvious.

The accords aren't the focus of the film like the SHRA are in the comics. They are a means to an end. Sure you can gripe about that and rightfully so but the movie doesn't really shy away from making it obvious they are a mere plot device and not a grand metaphor for real life events (even through it is).

While the movie may not dwell on the accords almost every character ends up going against the Accords by the films end or in Infinity War.

Tony himself was never fully onboard but was so driven by his shame and if it weren't for the Bucky reveal he more than likely would've disregarded it completely by films end given the fact he went off the reservation to help Bucky and Steve. Even still he doesn't seem to want to play ball with Ross or the UN and keeps things under control and keeps the govt off the other's trail because let's be honest he knew where they were. In Homecoming Tony uses his status within the Accords to keep the sanctioned ("Mighty") Avengers out of stuff that the various govt can handle and also keeping Spider-Man in the grey area. I'll chalk that up to some sort of agreement with the US/UN to allow him to fight petty crime. The accords are pretty unclear and conflicted even with Agents of SHIELD and a throwaway line in She-Hulk.