Is T’Challa a better fighter than Killmonger?
I was rewatching black panther, and during the ritual fight killmonger demands, T’Challa fights better, pins killmonger down TWICE, asking him to yield.
My opinion- T’Challa is a better fighter than killmonger, both hand to hand and melee weapons. The only reason killmonger beat T’Challa during the ritual fight was because he was bloodthirsty and T’Challa being a Nobel guy, wanted him to yield instead of dead.
T’Challa does beat killmonger in the final battle fair and square with no particular extra enhancements of advantages on either side.
What do you guys think?
My opinion- T’Challa is a better fighter than killmonger, both hand to hand and melee weapons. The only reason killmonger beat T’Challa during the ritual fight was because he was bloodthirsty and T’Challa being a Nobel guy, wanted him to yield instead of dead.
T’Challa does beat killmonger in the final battle fair and square with no particular extra enhancements of advantages on either side.
What do you guys think?
Commentaires
But I don't know many seals that are also MMA champs.
With that being said there are competitions within the military and even installation/unit level and all-branch teams but that's covered where if you get hurt it's justified and covered should disability arise and accepted risk in terms of manpower.
In the military generally you have to ask permission (should) to get a second job especially a high risk one like that as jobs interfere with duty and youre property of Uncle Sam 24/7 365
And we literally watched T'Challa in combat before this scene and in Civil War and he had been the Panther for years at this point. As stated in previous comment Killmonger simply wanted it more and fought to kill whereas T'Challa had honor and compassion and did not seek to actual harm him. The duel is more of a UFC match than mortal kombat and for what it seems there has never really been opposition by anyone except M'Baku. It was a formality of a long running tradition. Both M'Baku and Killmonger were legitmate threats and even it seems M'Baku wasn't prepared to kill but merely defeat.
It was a battle of personality and morals.
I think people forget we watched T'Challa go toe to toe with Bucky without his suit and he wasn't holding back. The serum/herb only enhances you still have to have skill.
I assume T’Challa has more training tho so probably him
I imagine that would be substantial enough, especially more so than just the question and one line in the body.
I think he’s mostly plagued by self doubt, and more shame than ego. Secondary shame for what his father did, but shame nonetheless.
T’Challa had a lifetime of privilege and special treatment. Killmonger had no support and had to fight and claw his way to the Annapolis Naval Academy, MIT, and the US Navy Seals.
It’s unclear who would win if they both had the same starting line.
T’Challa lands what could have been a killing blow on him not once, but twice, let’s the second one glance off his cheek where he could have cut his whole head off.
If he was fighting to kill, T’Challa would have ended the fight quickly. All of Erik’s skill couldn’t hold a candle to his training. Yes, he grew up a royalty, but Wakanda is first and foremost a warrior culture. T’Challa was trained from the youngest age possible to be the best warrior on the continent. Erik only exploits T’Challa’s good will and restraint to win. Once the fight is on even footing later in the movie, T’Challa land ends it.
The tragedy of Erik’s character is he never stood a real chance against T’Challa. His mission to take revenge for what happened to him as a child literally traps him in that moment for eternity.
T'Challa is a great warrior, but he's still the heir and then king. They're not sending the Black Panther into battle, there are none. They're not wasting the Black Panther on surveillance when the Dora Milaje exist. I don't think the Black Panther really left Wakanda for action that didn't directly involved retrieving stolen Vibranium. And the last time that happened it was T'Chaka that did the work.
At the end of the day, at this time, Killmonger wins because he's experienced in fighting and killing. Something T'Challa hadn't been very experienced in yet.
The good guy could win and would have won if he just was not so noble. But, he just cannot stoop to that level.
But, since the bad guy doesn't have those limitations, he plays off of that nobility and does whatever he needs to to win.
There is even that brilliant moment where T'Challa has the upper hand and Killmonger has a brief look of fear on his face. He KNOWS he should be dead. He KNOWS that T'Challa had him beat.
And he then knows the limits T'Challa imposes on himself. Killmonger, however, does not share those limitations.
So, the first time I watched the movie, I wondered where all of Killmonger's cockiness and trash talk was coming from. It was obvious to everyone that Killmonger was just lucky that T'Challa is not a natural born killer.
But, as he was beating T'Challa and asking the crowd if this was the type of leader they wanted, he was basically asking them if they wanted a leader who was strong, but also hampered by nobility and kindness or if they wanted a new leader who would do whatever it took.
The battle was as much about philosophical differences as physical combat.
As to skill? Yeah, I always got the impression T'Challa was more skilled. He had Killmonger beat despite not going all out to kill him. And, more telling, T'Challa's head was not fully in the game due to the history he had learned.
I think if T’Challa hadn’t learned what he learned the moments before N’Jadaka showed up and issued the challenge, it’s a completely different story. One where he probably doesn’t even accept the challenge until he’s had time to really ascertain the truth of N’Jadaka’s claim.
But untimely, that was the point of N’Jadaka allowing him to see the necklace in the first place. He threw T’Challa off his game well before he ever showed up in Wakanda.
T’Challa’s nobility matters, no doubt, and it’s certainly used against him in that fight, but I’ve always thought it was a secondary concern to the mind games N’Jadaka was playing. In that particular fight, N’Jadaka just wanted it more than T’Challa. By the second fight, that dynamic has inverted, and we see what it looks like when T’Challa is properly motivated.
And I see the merits of your points as well.
It actually ties in to the rundown Ross gave about Killmonger. He was trained to take down the enemy using all sorts of methods, not just physical.
The fact that T'Challa's best friend, W'Kabi, was now siding with Killmonger was also a gut punch.
Hand to hand combat is possibly more civilised than the way a lot of medieval and European royal/aristocratic families used to go about it and possibly more logical than just ‘eldest child of the last ruler.’
Basically, the idea of needing to have the "head of the executive branch" and "high-tech super-soldier commando" roles to always be filled by the same person is dumb and breaks down as soon as you think about it for any length of time.
- this is just the Jabari tribe, challenging for the throne.
Pretty sure if they stopped doing this tradition some people would not see the new king as the right successor.
Some would move on and accept but there will be traditionalist.
Some of those could even be war dogs.
Now, a war dog that doesn't recognize your reign operating outside your country is dangerous.
Like most patriarchal monarchies it goes from father to oldest son. T'Challa was King the moment he became Panther because T'Chaka couldn't anymore and he simply was King in waiting. As long as the son passes the trial of course.
Unless another season of Eyes of Wakanda expounds on it I doubt anyone contended in a long time. Probably since the Jabari stopped playing along.
Unless you are literally the strongest warrior in the royal families by far, challenging for the throne is going to be a risky endeavor, where you are literally risking life and limb to say that X person is not worthy of the throne. If you lose, you are also risking immediate retribution from the leader who does take the reins. That risk level rises if you attempt to challenge a popular candidate, because you open yourself up to challenges from any loyalists that may attempt to take revenge or disagree with your minority position and believe you shouldn't govern.
Conversely, constraining it only to people of certain noble/royal bloodlines allows for this formal mechanism to not spiral into straight civil war whenever there is a disagreement among noble families, as it provides a formal framework that is both cheaper, and more culturally accepted.
The Final Battle is different, T’Challa is more experienced being the Black Panther which would be a big advantage in that fight.
I know it’s not the question but I’ll finish my rant: love me some Michael B, but none of his performance in Black Panther was believable as he was trying to act too “cool”. No one in their right mind believed he was a hardened killer with the way he was acting and speaking especially
All just, too cool - as Tarantino once told Jamie Foxx at the beginning of filming Django
There's a better outside of the fight- better trained and better prepared, but better != winner.
He is trained and is used to fighting with the black panther powers and hand to hand. Sure, as a warrior king of wakanda, he would still be knowledgable in using their weapons, but when your power got stripped away and then you have fight right after, kinda makes it hard to adapt instantly.
But that's being king.
T'Challa was fighting with his head and to defend
It was only later when they rematched and were both fighting in the same way for the same purpose of getting the nation to act the way they believed was best, was T'Challa proven the better
T’Challa is like top 10 fighters in all of marvel, not many can best him.
Think about how many innocent people died, because T'Challa allowed Killmonger to live.
Not Batman letting Joker live levels of dead innocents, but still unethical and immoral.
Failing to stop the deaths of Innocents isn't noble IMO, tt's stupid.
Killmonger should have gone over those falls, already broken before he hit the water.
That's the unpleasant but necessary duty of a king: protecting the innocent from harm, including at the cost of the perpetrators' lives.
During the second fight, T’Challa made peace with what happened and focused on saving his people and his country. KillMonger’s anger was no longer enough.
But I do think there is an argument that Killmonger was the better warrior, the better weapon.
He infiltrated Wakanda so skillfully that I’m not sure any other regular human in the verse could have done it better. And his lethality was higher than T’Challa’s. KM is a killer. Not a fighter, IMO.
Fighting to subdue is more difficult than fighting to kill. Had T'Challa fought with the same intent as killmonger, it would barely be a fight.
T’Challa gets whipped by Killmonger earlier when he had various doubts about his father holding him back.
IMO, I think the evidence leans towards a focused T’Challa being the better fighter.
Huh…
On top of that, it was a needless fight. Bad king to risk his kingdom's welfare on a knife fight.