Apart from the big 5(iron,cap,thor,hulk,hawk), if you had to pic either one as the final founding members, which one would you choose ? Antman and wasp or black widow

Commentaires

Single-Pianist-22112025-12-02 19:03

Black widow

rubyschnees2025-12-02 19:07

the idea that black widow is replaceable is ridiculous

ExternalMedical94922025-12-02 19:13

It isn't really ridiculous. It wasn't until the first Avengers movie in 2012 , where Black widow replaced hank and Janet as the founding member . Before 2012 , Ant man and wasp were part of the founding lineup of the avengers

darkkn1te2025-12-02 19:37

Why is she replaceable but not Hawkeye? She's an avenger in the movie before Hawkeye is

DiveshwarSingh2025-12-02 20:06

Not movies, he's talking about the comics. In the comics, she is not a founding member.

Objective_Let_63852025-12-02 20:20

Nor is Hawkeye fyi

spidervenom6192025-12-02 23:52

Or Steve Rogers lol.

BH_Falcon272025-12-03 01:37

No, but he did join in Avengers #4.

spidervenom6192025-12-03 01:51

Still not a founding member though lmao.

darkkn1te2025-12-02 20:21

In the comics, hawkeye isn't a founding member either. It was Hulk, Thor, Hank, Janet, and Iron Man

SimonShepherd2025-12-03 03:00

Hawkeye is like top 5 to top 10 in terms of sheer appearance, more than even Thor. Team presence wise he has way more history compared to Widow.

And yes, Hulk should be kicked as well because dude is barely there.

Efficient-Shine-1012025-12-02 19:47

Before 2012 nobody cared about the Avengers

PixelBits892025-12-02 20:08

Captain America and Hawkeye also weren’t founding members in the comics. Hawkeye especially came later on.

And based on the sub, it’d make sense to look at the films and realize that Widow is way closer to being a “big 5” member than Hawkeye.

SimonShepherd2025-12-03 02:59

Then why are fucking counting Hulk who is in a similar situation except he has even less appearances than Black Widow?(Who is still at least around like third or fourth most consistent female member after Janet and Wanda.)

SimonShepherd2025-12-03 02:58

She is though, she is one of the more consistent member but she has like half of the overal apperances compared to Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch, Wasp.

Also Hulk wouldn't even really count as a consistent member in the comics.

Due-Quantity49212025-12-02 19:11

That art work is astounding I mis EMH so much where did you find it.

BleekerTheBard2025-12-02 21:03

That’s not a still from EMH though is it? Like the designs are definitely inspired by it but that’s fanart or promo or something else

Due-Quantity49212025-12-02 22:05

When did I apply that was actual show art works that’s why I’m asking where they got it because it’s clearly someone else’s art

LightningTiger19982025-12-02 19:16

As much as I like Hawkeye hes not big 5 the original 5 founders are Ironman, Thor, Hulk, Antman and Wasp

Cap was the 6th member

Hawkeye was next with Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch and Widow was much later (15th member to join)

So if they were going to change the first avengers film it should just be the actual original 5 with Cap joining soon after

Sparrowsabre72025-12-02 19:39

And I think Hulk left before Cap joined, no?

LightningTiger19982025-12-02 22:42

In Earths Mightiest Hero’s kinda Amora was messing with his mind and the avengers thought he’d gone savage so Hulk said they think he’s a monster and left jumping away and his jumping made a crater in the ice which lead them to finding Cap

I don’t actually know about the comics I haven’t read the really old ones I just know the order they joined from the wiki….

Members seem to just come and go over the years anyway so at this point they’ve all left and rejoined many times

Sparrowsabre72025-12-03 09:28

I think it's pretty much 2nd issue Hulk leaves because of something similar to how you describe, the way the other avengers don't trust him. and then like 3rd issue Cap is found.

Pootenheim9102025-12-03 14:15

Hulk leaves the team in the second issue after another disagreement/fight. He joins The Defenders from the mid-1970s and doesn't rejoin The Avengers again until 2012 because of the movie.

So yeah, you're pretty much correct about his status! Only the EMH cartoon keeps him around because of his popularity with kids.

life_is_a_burner2025-12-02 20:04

Who was the first to leave?

SimonShepherd2025-12-03 02:56

And Hulk is barely on the team and not actually counted as a founding member in the comics.(He didn't even get his own statue)

Real_Walk53842025-12-02 19:31

Wasp and Ant-Man were founding members in the comics. Cap was not.

Son_Tenaj2025-12-02 19:38

It would be more like the Big 3 iron man,hulk and Thor…Cap was the 6th member and Haweye was after him as well.

I would definitely chose Antman and wasp over black widow and Hawkeye…I love black widow and Clint and their Mcu adaptation but it criminal that the women that gave the avengers their name isn’t or wasn’t on the original mcu roster as planned.

ExternalMedical94922025-12-02 19:54

Hawkeye has always been part of the core founding lineup of the avengers, along with ant man and wasp.

It's black widow in this case who is replacable

sweetdavybrown2025-12-02 20:12

No, he hasn't. The original Avengers lineup was Ant-Man, Hulk, Iron Man, Thor, and Wasp.

SimonShepherd2025-12-03 02:57

Hulk is barely with the team, he was there initially but not really a main member.

Son_Tenaj2025-12-03 03:06

Yeah I know but he is still a founding member regardless.

SimonShepherd2025-12-03 03:14

I mean he is not actually counted in-universe. He didn't even get his own statue and stuff. Nor did Hulk himself want to be counted among them. He might be the founder for that historical moment, but in terms of adaption and how much he should be relevant, that is pretty low.

Son_Tenaj2025-12-03 03:25

He is counted as a founding member tho? In Avengers by Kurt Brusiek it’s a topic that is brought up by captain America how hulk is way more of a founding member then he is. Also during the hulk arc during that run he mentions himself that he is a founding member even tho he didn’t stay around long after.

Plus there is a statue of the founding members and Hulk and cap are on it.

SimonShepherd2025-12-03 03:46

Cap mentioned that specifically because Hulk was originally there.(Even though after that Cap is like way more present on the team and getting important roles).

I must have misremembered the statue thing, I vaguely remember Pymtron talking about the statue being ahistorical and shit.(Not including Hulk but includes Cap)

Pootenheim9102025-12-03 14:19

I think for meta historical purposes, the more modern comics have it that there are "6" founding members, looping both Hulk and Cap among the roster.

The irony here is that The Avengers first assemble to stop Hulk in #1, he stands there when they declare themselves a team, and then he leaves in the next issue. Jarvis is more of an Avenger than Hulk ever was.

RoyalComplete75912025-12-02 19:57

Where is the image above from? It doesn't look like the official art for "Earth's Mightiest Heroes".

fisheggsoup2025-12-02 21:43

Cap and Hawk aren't founding members to begin with so I don't really see the point of this post.

NamelessGamer_12025-12-02 22:22

If it's Hank and Janet then yeah they are way better than BW and it's not even close imo

Zealousideal-Pie21072025-12-02 22:58

The final member….and it’s 2 people for one choice 😂

spidervenom6192025-12-02 23:53

If you needed two people to replace for one, I'm picking the one person.

Besides Hope is a better written character then Early Day Janet is, Early Day Janet was a straight Brat of a bitch that will never shut up. Give me Nat over Janet any day of the week.

1OptimisticPrime2025-12-03 00:11

Löki

Defiant_Wheel48882025-12-03 03:54

I think pym and wasp has to be good addtion to avengers team in MCU

Mass24242025-12-03 04:32

Hank Pym Ant-Man, his story is so much more interesting than Scott's, and as a bonus, he isn't a clown.

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