Captain america brave new world could have so easily been a good movie with a couple changes

First of all sam should take the serum. There's literally no negative consequences in taking the serum and considering the fact that he's about to be leading the charge against doom while being a regular human just because of his principles makes him seem like a snob not brave. Enough about that. Here's the biggest change i would make. PUT BRUCE BANNER IN THE MOVIE. Seriously i don't get how the people in charge didn't put hulk in basically a hulk movie (this movie is definitely kind of a sequel to the incredible hulk). This way we could have both gotten the savage hulk back and had a final fight that's believable instead of having sam the human stop a hulk punch with his bare hands. The way i would have envisioned is that seeing the man who hunted him his entire adult life turn into the same exact monster he is would have triggered bruce to the point of the savage hulk re-emerging which would have then lead to an epic fight with 2 hulks. Also this is a much more complex subject but i would have preferred the leader to not just be a walking plot device who appears and disappears conveniently when the story requires

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Free_Dome_Lover2025-12-01 15:08

There is no world where human Sam survives Red Hulk. Really killed the whole vibe. They either needed Sam to take a "enhanced serum" making him stronger than Bucky so that he could fight Red Hulk. Or they needed him to get humbled and seriously hurt by Red Hulk but pull off the win because he got Banner involved, showing that a top human can do stuff but at a huge cost. Consistent with Rhodey's injury.

eldiablolenin2025-12-01 15:13

Sam appears selfish for not taking the serum and if they wanted to write it where he does g give in they could have him forced to take it like government orders etc

T-t-tyler12025-12-01 15:15

Agreed

mega5122025-12-01 15:19

It never was a Hulk movie. The whole point is to show Sam is the man to be Captain America.

T-t-tyler12025-12-01 15:20

"It never was a hulk movie" except it specifically uses hulk characters lol. Also pinning sam against a literal hulk is not the way to "show he is the man to be cap" that's just not believable in any sense

Wooden-Radish-90082025-12-01 16:50

Ross appears in more Avengers movies than Hulk movies

T-t-tyler12025-12-01 18:48

Except it's not only ross. It's also sterns

Wooden-Radish-90082025-12-01 19:06

Sterns is in as many Captain America movies as he is Hulk movies

T-t-tyler12025-12-01 20:10

But he's ultimately a hulk character. That's like saying the red skull isn't a captain america villain because he's in endgame

Wooden-Radish-90082025-12-01 22:21

Movies arent the comics. Making the movie adhere to source material is boring and lacks creativity. And either way, villains fight heroes other than their own all the time. Like ALL THE TIME

They only used Sterns because of his ties to Ross. Sterns wouldn't be in the movie if Ross wasn't.

eltrotter2025-12-01 15:25

Agree on the Bruce Banner thing, but somewhat disagree on the Super Soldier Serum thing.

To the extent that Brave New World has a theme, it's "might versus right"; the way that power and morality interact with each other. Sam's super power, going right back to the first time we meet him in Winter Solider, is his empathy. He was a counsellor, and understands the emotional and psychological toll of conflict.

In Falcon and the Winter Soldier, we get a lot of backstory on how Sam perceives the interaction of physical power and insitutional power. We see this in microcosm when he applies for a mortgage and is told that, for all his superheroism and saving the universe, he still can't do anything about a bank refusing his request for a loan.

However, it's Sam's experiences with Isiah Bradley that ultimately convince him not to take the serum, because this reinforces the way that physical power can make you into a commodity, and does nothing to empower you against institutional power. Isiah is a victim because he is given physical power but deprived of freedom by the state; he has no choice in how he wields his strength for good, and ends up bitter and forgotten.

Clunky though it is, Sam's final speech to the government at the end of Falcon at the Winter Soldier is the natural end-point of this story; remaining a "normal" human but speaking truth to power and guiding them to become better (this is the idea; I get why people feel this didn't work in execution).

All of this reinforces Sam's belief is that he can do more to inspire the average person by being the "everyman" Captain America.

Brave New World squanders this thematic clarity by having Sam basically be as physically durable as any superhuman because the plot requires it. He is stabbed at one point, and just pretty much gets better straight away. He goes toe-to-toe with a Hulk, takes a few hits and basically ends up OK. If the story had emphasised the danger of even small physical injuries, or had a greater focus on Sam working hard not to get hit (because one hit from a Hulk to a normal person ought to be instant death), there would be greater thematic cohesion and narrative stakes. Oh well.

So I guess what I'm saying is... for all that they ended up doing with this storyline, they may as well have let Sam have the serum because he basically acts like he's taken it anyway. However, I do believe that Brave New World could have carried forward some of the strong themes of FATWS if they'd chosen to, and it would have been a more interesting film for it.

T-t-tyler12025-12-01 15:30

You make excellent points however because marvel has established that taking the serum has no bad side effects if you're a stable person to begin with just hurts sam's ideology because he could easily still be doing everything he's already doing but just as a super soldier. Wanting to inspire normal people is a great message but that's not really impossible to do as a super powered individual either. Plus like i mentioned he's about to be a leading figure against doom and because of these writing choices he now has 2 options which both make him seem like an asshole one way or another. Either he takes the serum and all his talk about not needing it becomes hypocritical or he doesn't take it and chooses his principles on super powers over the safety of the universe

eltrotter2025-12-01 16:40

I hear what you’re saying, but I think you’re missing the point about individual vs institutional power.

The point isn’t that the super serum would make Sam into a bad person, or that there’s some darkness in him that would make him corrupt if he took the serum.

The point is that Sam’s arc through FATWS is him realising that *even if* he was a good person and stayed a good person, becoming more physically powerful would make him more of a target to be weaponised by institutional power. We know this because even Steve Rogers was successfully weaponised this way, during the events of Civil War.

I don’t really think your point about leading against Dr Doom holds water because a) we don’t actually know what the shape of that story is going to be yet and b) there are more than enough superhuman folks knocking about who can be the “muscle”.

In order to be a leader Sam doesn’t need to be the most physically powerful, and that is the absolute *thematic core* of Sam’s arc.

TIAFS2025-12-02 23:52

Him taking to serum would be way more interesting in these movies though. A regular guy with wings and a shield isn't that interesting. Stark made it work and we gave Hawkeye a pass, but Hawkeye wasn't leading the whole team and his own movies.

Neandersaurus2025-12-01 15:32

If he took the serum, his character development would have sucked. He already has wakandan created wings, which is how he survived the red hulk. But wakandan wings plus serum would have made him a Mary sue.

The best thing about marvel is when their characters are the underdogs that have to develop and grow to win.

When they just hand them overwhelming power they didn't build, the movie sucks.

T-t-tyler12025-12-01 16:29

And he's not a mary sue by surviving a hulk?? A super soldier sam against a hulk would have still been an underdog fight. Just a more believable one

Neandersaurus2025-12-01 17:24

No, because he didn't beat the red hulk really. The MCU red hulk isn't a savage like the green hulk is. He reached the red hulk and made him quit. Plus he had wakandan wings, so he was able to hold him off until then.

It's not the way the thanos beat the hulk.

T-t-tyler12025-12-01 18:50

Except he still is in every way a hulk. Some "wakandan wings" should not be able to withstand a hulk and also sam shouldn't be able to make ross qu8t as ross doesn't care about sam a single bit

Neandersaurus2025-12-01 19:19

Did you even watch the movie? He quit because of his daughter, not for sam. And his wings didn't last the whole fight, just long enough for red hulk to come to his senses.

T-t-tyler12025-12-01 21:36

Bro literally stopped a punch from the red hulk. That should not be possible

Neandersaurus2025-12-01 22:14

With wakandan vibranium...not his arms

T-t-tyler12025-12-01 22:40

Literally used his hands to stop the pole. Also wakandan vibranium only absorbs energy it doesn't stop it meaning he should have still been sent flying

Neandersaurus2025-12-01 22:50

It's stops bullets, but it's moot because red hulk does eventually tear them apart before he comes to his senses.

spidervenom6192025-12-01 23:53

You really don't understand how powerful VIBRANIUM WINGS are do you?

Also, That scene wasn't about Ross "Caring about Sam", it was about his Daughter and Ross trying to be a better person for her.

CaptHayfever2025-12-01 17:21

If they'd just committed to Leader's makeup design, there would've been a lot less rushed chromakey, & the movie overall would've looked *way* better.

BartleBossy2025-12-01 18:36

> First of all sam should take the serum.

*Or experience consequences for not doing so*.

Imagine how fucking hard, how fucking *holy shit, this* **is** *the right man for the job* if after losing an arm (and fostering an introduction to Misty Knight, and further cementing Sam Wilson's role as a veteran who works with vets) he stood by his decision *not* to take the serum.

Its easy to make the *right choice*, when there are no downstream consequences.

Falkor2025-12-02 00:08

I still think they should have had Ross turn into Red Hulk in Act2, then someone comes to help him defeat Red Hulk in Act3 - I was hoping Isaiah would help but yeah.

Defiant_Wheel48882025-12-02 07:16

I think Steve made Sam the next Captain America on purpose. If he wanted another super soldier, he could have given the shield to Bucky or someone else. And yes, Hulk *needs* to be in that film not Banner, but Hulk. We need a Hulk vs. Red Hulk fight.
Leader - Hulk - Redhulk- Sam = made perfect Breave new world film.