Why is Iron Fist always getting whooped in The Defenders (MCU show)

This man Danny Rand trained in Kun Lun in Heaven for his whole life, plus beat Shao Lao the undying dragon to earn the immortal iron fist, but couldn’t even land a single punch on Daredevil when they fought, blud got completely violated by Daredevil? What kind of writing is that bro.

And when Iron fist fights Elektra underground, he summons the iron fist and then starts throwing the most obvious and slow punches ever, and not only does Elektra dodge his punches with ease, she embarrasses him by fully controlling his fist to punch the wall and unlock it. I know Danny was exhausted at that point but how does this guy train in HEAVEN and then fight like this, that moment was so painful to watch.

Also in the last episode, I just watched a scene where Danny defeats a Hand soldier, and then gets jumped kicked by another soldier, he had his iron fist active he could’ve definitely parried it but he just tanks the kick thinking he’s Luke Cage, and Daredevil saves him 😔 he’s just always getting caught off guard it looks like, again painful to watch

Daredevil is never caught off guard except for when he fights Elektra which is understandable. I just wish the MCU Danny Rand could actually fight better because it doesn’t feel like I’m watching the Iron Fist fight.

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FewWatermelonlesson02025-11-30 19:48

Finn Jones’ very limited martial arts skills probably played a part. Hard to give your lead actor kickass action set pieces when he can’t throw a kick without 17 jump cuts.

veggiekid232025-11-30 20:39

Which is why they should’ve given him the damn mask!
Easy to give your lead actor kickass action setpieces when his face is hidden and he can just be a stuntman.

horc002025-12-01 01:03

Way easier to just get an actor who can do some stunts. Over reliance on hiding your lead character behind a mask puts heavy limitations on the stories they can tell. And then fight scenes will end up being filmed in the dark with a gazillion cuts.

Ultimatespacewizard2025-12-01 03:46

They put Daredevil in a full mask and because of it were able to shoot the hallway fight with at least 3-4 other stunt performers. And that's considered the best sequence in the entire Netflix Marvel run.

horc002025-12-01 04:21

Daredevil isn't the 2nd best martial artist in Marvel, Iron Fist is. The hallway fight might be the best in the Netflix run, but it's no where as good as the Shang-Chi fights. If you want the 2nd best Marvel fighter to look anywhere as good as Shang-Chi did, you can't be constantly hiding your lead actor's face.

Charlie Cox also trained hard, and trained daily, and didn't skip training, and he did a lot of his own stunts in the next few seasons.

Ultimatespacewizard2025-12-01 05:22

But that's the thing, if you hide his face, you could literally use the same stunt men from Shang Chi. You could use a new stuntman with a different specialty for every sequence. Because if you hide his face you don't have to hide your stuntmen. You can just hire the best people. Sure, the actor should be able to string a few moves together, but if you can hide his face you will get a better looking fight. But, I guess I'm biased, I've worked as a double for fights and horror sequences.

horc002025-12-01 05:52

Then you'd just put limitations on the story and choreography. Unless Danny walks around with his mask on, you can't ambush him in broad daylight. He'd be like "oh no, an ambush! Let me put my mask on, it's in my backpocket!"

Daredevil works because he mostly fights crime at night and he doesn't need light. One of Danny's dumbest fight scene was in Defenders when he was ambushed at night in a dark alley, and just before the fight starts he goes "it's already so dark but let me put my hoodie on to block my peripheral vision so I can fight better!" It's just so stupid.

>if you can hide his face you will get a better looking fight

I mean, for Finn's case, yes. But if you get an actor who can do some stunts, you wouldn't even need to hide his face most of the time and you'll get waaaaay better looking fights. It's not like Finn Jones is some incredible actor whose name itself is a huge draw.

SnooFoxes18312025-12-05 09:08

Ah, but he landed the part JUST after being in Game of Thrones and it was assumed by many that he was going to be one of the 'hot new leading men', At the time, it was expected he would be a big draw and this would be the next step into super stardom. They thought wrong.

horc002025-12-05 09:50

I remember watching GoT thinking he was the least convincing knight in the show. He had no action scenes in the series of note, it boggles my mind they thought he could do kungfu.

prismstein2025-12-02 05:52

I read before that actors want their faces out so they can be recognizable...

crimsonmail2025-12-01 05:32

Charlie did a lot of his own stunts, and they didn't need 3-4 stunt performers, where are you getting your info from? Charlie only has one stunt double, Chris Brewster, who did the more complex and dangerous stunts Charlie wasn't allowed to do

shadesof32025-12-01 11:26

3-4 stunt performers to fight against. Not that many doing Daredevil.

carlitospig2025-12-02 15:58

Could’ve also gotten an actor that can actually act instead of having someone who always uses his *confused* face in place of a *moral outrage* and *duty* face.

If I ever rewatch that show I’m making it a drinking game.

DaNoahLP2025-12-01 06:31

Or give him enough time to train

jsnxander2025-12-01 08:12

The guy can't throw a punch and his hands and feet are incredibly slow. I guess you could digitally speed his limbs up but he's also off balance when he kicks and throws a punch. Just replace him with an actor that can perform proper movie fighting until the pros are needed. Whatever the circumstances, the actor has damaged the Iron Fist brand for the few people that actually watched the show, myself included.

I'd give Iron Fist a chance, although I don't have any actual interest in another martial artist from a mystic realm in the MCU, if it's a different actor or a rebooted Iron Fist.

DaNoahLP2025-12-01 08:38

Charlie Cox had several months of training while Finn Jones only got 3 weeks. Do you really think that Charlie could have pulled this off with only 3 weeks of training? I really love him but he isnt a wizard. Same as Finn, he is a great actor but if you want him to be on the same level as Charlie, he needs the same amount of training.

crimsonmail2025-12-01 13:50

>Charlie Cox had several months of training

Source on this? This always gets parroted in defense of Finn but it's not even true. Charlie only had a month to prepare for DD S1, so only one week more than Finn had. And unlike you, I have a source.

*Some guys are naturally drawn to lifting and being in the gym, but that hasn't always been the case for Cox. "It was interesting because I've never really been a gym head before. I'd never even had a gym membership!" he laughs."*

*"With the first season, I had about a month to get into shape, so that was manic. With this second season, it's a lot easier to maintain [that muscle], but the aim is to be more a lean athlete than a bulked-up superhero."*

Source: https://www.iamsuperhero.com/blogs/news/charlie-cox-daredevil-workout-routine?srsltid=AfmBOooyhWto5OgCPCi_XfYj9SCkVgQyGrZBhC8yHx3Ff-4ntN71niko

Taraqual2025-12-03 07:34

Charlie Cox had fight training from other sources, though, such as Stardust. Not saying he was a black belt or anything, but he wasn't starting from basically zero the way Finn Jones was. He also just appears to be more naturally athletic.

Twooshort2025-11-30 20:48

Also his limited enthusiasm to putting in the work.

AlleRacing2025-11-30 20:50

As far as I know, he basically wasn't able to train *and* shoot his scenes because of the rushed production. That's more on Scott Buck.

kingmanic2025-11-30 21:31

Buck also hired someone who didn't know the basics of action scenes. So he had to learn lines and also the entire process of filming action. It's like casting a role for Winston Churchill and they cast someone who doesn't know English. So in addition to learning the lines, the accent, and mannerisms they also have to learn English from scratch.

They didn't need to hire an expert martial artist, but at least someone who has a background in dance would help. A lot of very good action stars started in dance because fight choreography is very much like dancing.

They hired a handsome okay actor with two left feet and the physicality of a wet noodle. He would have needed years to look good in action. He never looked like a physical threat in any scene. Kristen Ritter also lacked physicality but it was within character that she lazily leaned into the super power.

horc002025-12-01 04:27

That's on Scott Buck making the wrong casting choice. If I knew my production was tight on schedule, I sure as heck wouldn't be hiring an actor with zero action experience for a lead action role.

Live_Angle46212025-11-30 23:19

I would think it’s more that he was least popular character. Batman always is prominent and wins because is he is most popular, not because he actually could be that good. No matter how prepared, rich or intelligent

HarlotSlaughter2025-12-01 04:01

😂 Right? He was just not right for the part at all. He was over-acting so much and it seemed forced every time he spoke. It felt like a disservice to the character. IF was hard to watch at times for me but I wanted all the information on characters before watching The Defenders so I made myself finish it.

YoungJack232025-12-01 22:04

To be entirely fair to Jones, the fight choreographer for iron fist and defenders did not do great work. Willing to bet if he'd featured in DD he'd have had a better showing.

UnpredictiveList2025-11-30 19:49

Because his whole show was written fucking shit so he wasn’t OP, and he ended up no better than Daniel Larusso.

Sal_Paradise812025-11-30 19:50

Because that series was sorta the culmination of Danny’s arc (growing from a highly trained, tone-deaf-to-reality nepo baby to an actual empathetic and purpose driven hero), and most folks don’t get that about the character (I suspect because most folks are mostly unfamiliar with his comic origin). I, for one, feel like Defenders did a great job of taking Danny from one stage to another. In LC S3 he’s very much the Danny Rand people EXPECTED him to be the whole time, but that takes (and say it with me now) GROWTH.

UnXpectedPrequelMeme2025-11-30 20:12

That's good stuff and all, but it doesn't really tell us why he sucks Soo hard at fighting in the show. The real reason I think is because they didn't want to overshadow Daredevil since fighting is kind of also his thing and he was the most popular

Sal_Paradise812025-11-30 20:18

Maybe? I think the better narrative answer is that, again, while he’s highly trained by the monks at Kun Lun, he has zero real world experience. Hell, half the reason he wasn’t supposed to leave was BECAUSE of how unprepared he was for anything outside of Kun Lun. I think he loses a bunch because he literally walks into fights expecting every opponent to fight honorably and fairly. Like when he just straight up confronts The Hand and Alexandra. That’s the kind of hubris that comes from a very rosy view of the world and usually ends in a beating

UnXpectedPrequelMeme2025-11-30 20:27

You know what, you're totally right. That makes absolute sense now that you're actually saying it. I never really thought about that that in real life most martial arts are only really going to be super effective if the other opponent is also using martial arts. So while something like Tai chi is a good fighting style, it's probably going to be very hard to do Tai chi against somebody who's using regular mma stuff.

horc002025-12-01 04:31

>most martial arts are only really going to be super effective if the other opponent is also using martial arts

Wrong.

>Tai chi is a good fighting style

Wrong again.

Real_Walk53842025-11-30 22:30

Dude literally walked up to the villains and tried to buy them like Batman and Luke had to save him. Later they have to tie him to a chair because he's an incompetent dumbass.

Danny Rand sucks in the MCU. If the fans have to explain it because the show didn't its bad writing.

Sal_Paradise812025-11-30 22:32

Because he’s literally the MCU’s Bruce Wayne. And yeah, they should’ve made his arc more condensed, and missed an opportunity there. AND, I still think it’s crazy accurate to who the character actually is

Real_Walk53842025-11-30 22:48

Bruce Wayne is competent.

TalynRahl2025-11-30 19:57

My biggest complaint about the he MarvelFlix Iron Fist…

We never actually *got* Iron Fist. We got two freakin seasons of “wah, why don’t my powers work” or “wah, the mean man stole my powers”

Sack up, and throw down, dipshit.

CootahBrown2025-11-30 21:52

![gif](giphy|AKRBUvnTZcBLW)

jeremiah2562025-11-30 20:00

Poor writing, show runner not understanding the character, not wanting to have the marquee character of the Defenders, Daredevil, be overshadowed by all three of the others.

Popular_Material_4092025-11-30 20:00

Because he was a thundering dumbass

graveybrains2025-11-30 20:24

He plays the adult survivor of severe childhood trauma pretty well, and thundering dumbass is a great description of the result.

askingtherealstuff2025-12-01 00:42

He doesn’t play that well at all

Zubi_Q2025-11-30 20:09

So much waste potential. He should be the best fighter of the 4, yet he's the worst. They should have given Finn Jones more time to train or used a stunt double for all the fight scenes

horc002025-11-30 23:50

Or… hear me out… get an actor who possess the required athleticism or can actually do stunts.

Zubi_Q2025-11-30 23:51

Totally fine with that!

I don't want a Lewis Tan situation though. He fucking sucks as an actor.

horc002025-12-01 00:59

Yeah Lewis Tan only ever plays one type of character. But tbf, Netflix’s characterisation for Danny doesn’t require much acting chops too.

summ1902025-12-02 00:04

And … hear me out … one who can also act as well

horc002025-12-02 01:01

Facts

askingtherealstuff2025-12-01 00:41

More time to train won’t fix that. It would have helped, but not made it good enough. You can tell he’s not gifted

ridergade2025-11-30 20:13

Danny Rand was the equivalent of a grown man who thought he could fight because he took karate when he was 9.

jsnxander2025-12-01 20:51

Lol. Well said. I'm a grown man who got a black belt when I was 12. Bad ass for a 12 yo! Ever since it's been a downhill slide in my confidence to win a fight and today I specialize in talking my way out first, then I make sure I'm NOT the slowest runner in my group, and third screaming like a little girl for help. Hey, we all have a strengths!

tangodeep2025-11-30 20:23

He was the least established character

Freedog6662025-11-30 20:28

Probably because no one liked Finn Jones so they nerfed the character.

DannyRandy_212025-11-30 20:48

The writers and casting crew fricked up Danny Rand

It's best to ignore that abomination and hope for a complete reboot like Superman

horc002025-12-01 02:22

Based Danny Rand fan. It boggles my mind seeing Iron Fist fans insist that Finn Jones reprise the role, it's almost like they don't want Danny Rand to look like a badass.

DannyRandy_212025-12-01 16:20

I don't get why they don't want a better version?

horc002025-12-02 01:00

My best guess is that they’re scared Marvel will recast with an Asian actor, so they’d rather campaign for the actor who can’t act nor kick than risk a recast.

DuckyHornet2025-11-30 21:30

I admit, I actually kinda like the idea that he's a shitty Fist. It's intrinsically funny and interesting to me. Like, he has the most potential of them all, but he kinda sucks. Which, if he ever figured out how to unlock it all would feel absolutely earned after getting his clothes folded so much. But I don't see us ever getting that payoff now so

axebodyspraytester2025-11-30 23:00

I'm the immortal Iron Fist! Gets punched in the face. I'M THE IMMORTAL IRON FIST! Gets beaten up by Luke Cage Exactly the same way a normal little white dude would get beaten by Luke Cage. Gets up and goes full glowy fist Luke shrugs it off and keeps beating him till the show ends.

askingtherealstuff2025-12-01 00:40

Because he sucks

Samantha_Cruz2025-12-01 00:55

Well in his defense he really hasn't recovered from that time cersei blew him up in the sept

the_doughboy2025-12-01 02:05

Iron Fist is an awful character to begin with. He’s a White Savior and should have been buried back in the 90s.

Hippo_in_limbo2025-12-01 04:30

bc we know popularity is what leads character feats then anything else.

TsaiMeLemoni2025-12-01 05:15

I mean, in relation to Elektra, she's been killing since she was a child and is souped up post-resurrection as the Hand's antithesis to the Iron Fist, it makes sense to me that she'd be a challenge for Danny. She was a challenge for all of them in Defenders

MaezinGaming2025-12-01 05:30

Probably because those shows are terribly written and people don’t wanna admit it. The punisher can kick daredevils ass sometimes yet iron fist can’t do shit, make it make sense. It’s almost like the show runners don’t put any real thought into it

jalabi992025-12-01 06:36

Why? Because the character Danny Rand sucks, and the actor (Finn Jones) sucks as a martial artist.

Mickeyjj272025-12-01 06:56

It was silly. But it’s what they decided to do with Danny Rand because they picked a showrunner who worked fast and cheap. I imagine if they picked anyone else competent Rand would be using his iron fist and kicking ass a majority of the time.

InterloperPrime2025-12-01 08:19

Maybe Danny wasn't that great, but the monks set him up to move the iron fist power out of Kun Lun.

Soulwarfare422025-12-01 12:52

Iron Fist is meant to be the best fighter in the whole of the Defenders. The problem is that:

1. Finn Jones isn't a martial artist and was clearly not given enough training time so he couldn't convincingly convey being the best fighter. Simu Liu isn't a martial artist either but he was able to convince the audience that his character was a top tier fighter because he got that training and an excellent choreographed team

2. The writing. Defenders isn't that well-written and it is clear the writers didn't have much of an understanding of Iron Fist as a character

3. The team just loved Daredevil. When Iron Fist fought Daredevil, he really should have won with ease which caused Jessica and Luke Cage to step in but the writers didn't want to allow Daredevil to lose. Likewise as stated in the final battle against hand, Daredevil was just doing the most while Iron Fist was in the background tanking hits and getting saved. There really should have been a scene showing him demolish most of the hand goons by himself because you know, he is the Immortal Iron Fist, Protector of K'un-Lun, Sworn Enemy of the Hand

tehCharo2025-12-01 23:23

I think you nailed it, Finn gets a lot of hate around here, sure he played some part of the way the show turned out, he wasn't the writer of it either. I hope he gets another chance and time to prepare.

Affectionate-Bus9272025-12-01 20:26

those netflix shows are the worst anyway

Kazzad2025-12-02 03:31

Show synopsis: "I am the immortal iron fist. I can't involve my friends, I must do this myself"
\*Gets his ass kicked and left for dead\*
"Oh, thank you friends for somehow managing to rescue me again. But..."
"I am the immortal iron fist. I can't involve my friends. I must do this myself"
\*gets his ass kicked and left for dead\*

Puzzled-Horse2792025-12-04 21:45

Coz his actor cant fight for shit