If these characters had been considered for Thunderbolts*, how would you justify their participation in the film?
If these characters had been considered, how would you have integrated them into the film's plot?
Who could have helped Valentina with her plan?
And what do you think Valentina might have offered the criminals to get them to work for her? What would their role in the film have been? What would their "room of shame" have been? Would they have helped the protagonists or sided with Valentina?
Who could have helped Valentina with her plan?
And what do you think Valentina might have offered the criminals to get them to work for her? What would their role in the film have been? What would their "room of shame" have been? Would they have helped the protagonists or sided with Valentina?
Commentaires
I think that with the Vulture, his arc would have been similar to Alexsei's. He does want to be a hero, but not for fame and fortune, but for a personal reason: to make Liz proud of him again.
Being known as "the daughter of the criminal Spider-Man defeated" isn't exactly pleasant, and seeing as he ended up respecting Spider-Man, he would probably want his family to see in him what he saw in Spider-Man.
And Valentina took advantage of that, as well as his desire to see his family sooner.
Beating up a lot of street levelers? Ok, but not too impressive, feels like Spidey could do it just as easily.
Manhandling a Hulk-level character? Now that would be worthy of someone who claims to be "stronger than the Avengers".
Edit. Not to mention that Blonsky would fit right in with the mental health angle, given his focus on meditation and stuff, he would be a great mentor to Bob, having lived through a similar process of becoming into a monster and learning to control it
With Zemo, I get the feeling he would have been more like the Leader was to Ross in Brave New World, supporting Valentina, although I also imagine him as an indirect villain, possibly plotting to sabotage and kill everyone because of his hatred for superheroes. Although Void would make him witness his "room of shame": not being able to save his family.
Because all of Zemo's hatred for superheroes is really his way of coping with the fact that he couldn't save his family. Without the Avengers, Ultron would never have existed, and Sokovia would still exist.
If you've watched Thunderbolts with your brain completely shut off, maybe that's how it looks like, but the real unifying trait they have is that they're mostly disposable people leading deeply unsatisfying lives and/or careers
So going with this criteria...
- Bullseye (one of the characters you don't recognize) *could* work going off his lore - very mentally-troubled person, spent some of his life being manipulated into a crime lord's pawn, and spent another chunk of his life incarcerated and heavily medicated. I just don't think he's the kind of character to be elevated into the kind of work the Thunderbolts would do
- Abomination would have zero business with Val because he's already living a zen, content life going off his She-Hulk story
(muffled Techno music heard pulsing)
(Yelena opens the door, and moves past a Sokovian named Zemo bobbing his head and swaying his hips as his outstretched arms slowly raise to his chest to the beat of the music)
Then when the Thunderbolts survive, she sends in her new team to fix that. They are introduced shortly after the Thunderbolts escape the furnace, in a scene where Zemo, Abomination and Bullseye liberate Hellcat and Vulture from the Raft. Ross is there and has the offer extended to him by Blonksy, but refuses and turns Red. The others decide not to open his cell lol.
The B team clashes with the Thunderbolts in the desert, where Bucky intervenes and helps the Thunderbolts escape. Bullseye is wounded and left for dead by the B team, so the Thunderbolts take him to treat his wounds and get intel. This is what leads them to the NYC headquarters. Bullseye offers to help since they saved his life.
Everything else plays out mostly the same, but when they arrive in the lobby the B team is there (minus Abomination who is missing). Bullseye immediately turns on them because of course he does, but the Thunderbolts still come out on top.
When they get upstairs, Bob still wipes the floor with them. But when he disobeys Val, her secret weapon is Abomination. Bob beats his ass too, by going shadow mode and taking us into the third act. Downstairs, Vulture and Hellcat get shadow zapped during the initial chaos. Zemo and Bullseye wisely escape while the Thunderbolts are helping people.
They apparently don’t get far though because while Yelena is touring memories later, she encounters the B team being tortured by theirs. Only Bullseye seems completely unphased, but Zemo has it real bad (makes sense if you recall his past). Yelena clears Bullseye on her way to Bob.
At the end, the Thunderbolts have the B team rounded up and captured when Val springs the press conference on them. Zemo escapes and is in the wind, the others go to the Raft. In a post credit scene, Val is still working with Zemo behind the Thunderbolts’ backs. Fisk appears to Bullseye at the Raft, setting up the events of Daredevil.
Zemo would be on the team, but he'd eventually betray them to the CIA or US government, leading to someone like war machine trying to arrest them, but they get away.
Trish walker (the hellcat killer) would already be working for the US government as an assassin, going after drug barons and warlords. She has a reduced sentence for good behaviour. On mission she'd get infected with Gamma infused blood and mutate into Tigra, allowing her a fresh start.
Then they both go save Yelena with the limo. Maybe Alexei forces Blonsky to go with him, maybe Blonsky decides to go to help Alexei control himself, maybe Alexei flips the script on Blonsky and persuades him to try to be heroes again.
But Emil wants to control himself and just rely on his military skills, so he doesnt turn into Abomination til he tries to save everybody from Sentry. Maybe have an extended fight sequence between the two, Abomination gets defeated and it highlights even more how powerful Sentry is.
Then when they start saving the day, have him as Abomination protecting people from bigger threats, like a falling building, crashing helicopters or trailers.
He is the only one that I think could fit kinda organically. My first instinct after She-Hulk is he could be comic relief, but there could be a way to make him more serious.
Why's he's on the team: I'll think he's the easiest to get on the team out of the Two Hulks based characters that are available. Just have the Val force him to joined the team for Early Chance at Freedom.
Shame Room: The Death of his wife and his Daughter choosing Banner over him.
Zemo:
Is He on the Team: Just no at his joining the team, he would probably life at Val in her face if she asked him to joined.
Shame Room: Let's just say that the Void's Voided is somehow around the Raft seeing that's the only way I see him being put into it. I would think that his biggest Shame is probably the death of his Family and his country being blow up by Tony.
I'm Skipping Vulture for my own Sanity lol.
Hellcat/Patsy:
Why's she on the team: Early Chance at Freedom and if she's doesn't joined the team then Val could arrested/threaten her sister somehow.
Shame Room: ..Let's me just say everything that she did in Season 3 of Jessica Jones and call it a day lol.
Bullseye:
Is He on the team; Hahahahah? Wait you're Serious....
Shame Room:... IDK, probably his failure at killing Kingpin or Matt.
Emil
Is he on the Team:... No
Shame Room: Pretty being used by the Government as a weapon and turning into his Hulk Based character cause that's the only thing I got
make him more of an antagonist figure and tie him into the name of the team, they're called the "Thunderbolts" because that's an initiative ordered by President "Thunderbolts" Ross, he intends to use the team to publicly replace the Avengers as a government alternative to them, eventually causing a conflict with Sam Wilson over that. Rewrite things so that Yelena was his head of security (instead of that weird and unnecessary Ruth Bath-Seraph character). Yelena joins the team because the president asked her too, with the intent of covertly feeding him information about them. Yelena wasn't informed that Alexei would be joining and she begins resenting Ross cause of that. Valentina reports directly to Ross but she has her own motives as well. The team tries to rebel against Ross and escape his influence but they're locked into it.
**Baron Zemo**
he should have never been excluded from the movie in the first place. Make him the leader of the team just like in the comics. Valentina recruits him for his tactical and mercenary skills, promising to pardon him if he joins. He butts heads with Valentina's orders and later assumes command of the team, looking down on the super soldiers like Bucky and Alexei and thinking they're not fit to command because they took the serum. They all reluctantly listen to him. Walker and Yelena however wanted to be the ones who lead the team, and the three spend the entire movie arguing about who should be the leader while the others are like "whatever". Bucky never wanted to be the leader so he's all like whatever but remains distrustful of Zemo. In the climax , when they have to face Sentry, it's Zemo's turn to shine. The rest of the team doesn't know what to do and don't think they can face him but Zemo remains calm and tells them what to do, showcasing his leadership skills and they finally accept him as the leader of the team.
**Abomination**
he gets added to the team as an analogue to the Hulk. I don't remember if he was still incarcerated or not, but if he was, make it so that President Ross has promised a full pardon if he joins the team, Blonsky still harbors a grudge towards him because of the Harlem incident. Blonsky also resents Bucky, Walker and Alexei cause they also took versions of the SS Serum but they never mutated like he did. Lets Zemo take control and listens to his orders like in the EMH cartoon. Develops a fun dynamic with Ghost.
**Toomes -** throwaway line of how Valentina tried to get a hold of him but he was already gone to the Morbius Cinematic Universe and could NOT be located.
**Hellcat** - no idea as I only ever watched S1 of Jessica Jones and don't really remember much about her
***I don't know who the guy after her is***
And imagine how powerful Sentry would seem if he easy overpowered Abomination?
Sending the disgraced ex-president with Hulk/fire powers to crush everyone else/maybe hopefully get incinerated is crazy on a level I think even Valentina wouldn’t attempt.
\- Never showed Olga's face in the promo stuff
\- Already knows Bucky and Walker
\- Flips the "She's a woman???" silent villain trope that two of the characters already did.
\- Zemo stole a hero's identity in the original Thunderbolts
\- Powers easily transferable, they're tech in the MCU.
\- Lets Olga fucking retire. Like use her as a safehouse half way through the movie, living a "normal" life under a false name.
Wouldve been awesome. Zemo couldve stolen her identity without Valentina knowing, and he's working against her from the beginning.
Yelena still ends up the leader.
Zemo would be in a tactical role, & likely would try to usurp Valentina entirely for his own purposes.
I could see Hellcat in that vault. On the other hand, I absolutely could not see Vulture (powerless in the enclosed space) or Abomination (can't be killed) in there.
Dex cannot be trusted, end of story.
The movie is about a bunch of people who were unwillingly used as weapons, they were told they were heroes only to be tricked and made to do a load of shady things.
-Baron Zemo could split the thunderbolts team into the Dark Avengers
-Vulture with the venom symbiote for Dark avengers
-Moonstone would also work on Dark Avengers and could start as a Mrs Marvel villain.
-Dont know who the 5th guy is ?
-Abomination was ruined by She Hulk and is an emasculated joke that wouldn't fit in now.