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Show me a character you absolutely hated and then show the thing that made you love that same character, I'll go first.

Honestly, I DESPISED John when he was first introduces in Falcon and the Winter Solider, but ever since Thunderbolts\* he is been one of my favorite characters, Idk why, he is just portrayed a lot better in it, yes he's a brat, but now he's not a TOTAL brat.

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linecookdaddy2025-11-27 07:00

Absolutely agree on Walker

JoshTheBard2025-11-27 14:40

I started to come around on him during the "I have only ever done what you asked of me, and I did it well" speech but he fit so well into the Thunderbolts. I hope he sticks around after Secret Wars.

Grammarhead-Shark2025-11-27 07:01

It sucks that Thunderbolts\* really did fall victim the Marvel fatigue. It really was the highlight for me over the last few years (well that doesn't star Deadpool).

And yes, John's character arc was earnt and really felt worthwhile! (But still fun in that bratty and a little irritating kinda way - I am glad they didn't smooth over all the rough edges)

Alone_Aspect_25002025-11-27 07:17

Totally! Thunderbolts\* has given me hope for the MCU, It was going so downhill, with more bad then good dhows / movies, but now I think it's going up again!

mvrander2025-11-27 08:20

Why did the thumbnail of Walker for this post remind me of Up?

AustinAlexanderK972025-11-27 12:46

There were a decent amount of memes comparing Walker to Carl when the first Falcon and the Winter Soldier trailer dropped 😂

PickerPat2025-11-27 09:13

You absolutely hated the character you're framed to hate in their first appearance, and now you love them because of the whole movie made to make you love them?

Wow!!

At least name a particular scene or something, damn.

Alone_Aspect_25002025-11-27 09:16

Yeah yeah, typical response XD

Honestly I started liking him when he started being genuine, around when they escaped the Vault. Also when he started being nice to Bob. The interactions he has with the other Thunderbolts\* is also really good. I guess what I'm saying is I started liking him when he started dropping the prideful act.

PickerPat2025-11-27 09:17

Actual answer:

I did not like Vision at first. Flat character, too much focus on the being worthy thing. Even in Civil War they didn't really execute his flaws emerging when he downed Rhodey aiming for Falcon. Felt unearned.

Seeing some of his growth in Infinity War, but particularly in Wandavision made me appreciate him more. More of Bettany's range got to shine through and he has some banger lines like "What is grief but love persevering" and the whole Ship of Theseus argument with himself.

SharpshootinTearaway2025-11-27 13:10

I've always loved Vision, but I can't wait for Vision Quest next year specifically for what you're saying about his character growth.

From a perfect, otherwordly construct, to a man torn by his love for a fugitive, and, the next time we see him, a flawed father looking for a missing part of himself (from what has been officially revealed about the plot of Vision Quest so far).

cobaltaureus2025-11-27 10:57

According the director of FATWS you’re supposed to feel Walker has redeemed himself and is a hero by standing alongside Sam and Bucky in the finale…

I think that’s BS, but it was their intent

PickerPat2025-11-27 11:16

I'm talking about his reveal moment at the beginning. Per the photo and OP.

Either way, choosing a character whose intended arc is redemption from unlikeable to likeable is still a very low effort post.

cobaltaureus2025-11-27 11:19

You don’t really have to interact with it if you deem it low effort?

PickerPat2025-11-27 11:21

You can apply that attitude to everything mate. I interacted in a way that I enjoyed. I also provided my own answer to contribute more to the discussion.

You're engaging with me, so I guess you know what I mean.

TheFunkytownExpress2025-11-27 10:16

Yeah because in Thunderbolts he was portrayed as a loveable loser asshole underdog instead of a tool of the government who got a little too drunk with power, both figuratively and literally, and let that turn him into a murderous villain.

Any-Cat212025-11-27 10:35

I would not classify him as a villain since he does not seek to take over the world and destroy people just for pleasure or to use them.

Wooden-Radish-90082025-11-27 13:53

"Little too drunk with power"

-Recovers and illegally uses evidence.

-Kills a subdued criminal in the street.

-Lies to dead friend's parents about it.

-Tries to kill Sam.

-Takes no accountability.

-Becomes essentially an assassin.

I'm not here to say that Walker isn't a complex character or that there wasn't some awful mental shit he was working through that led to all this. But "a little too drunk with power" seems to let him off a little easy

TheFunkytownExpress2025-11-27 14:51

That was just for brevity's sake to reply to the commenter who said he didn't think Walker was a villain. 😀

Wooden-Radish-90082025-11-27 15:18

Oh gotcha haha

Alone_Aspect_25002025-11-27 15:40

I think he had a descent start to his redemption arc, yes he still has some issues but he is doing a lot better now then in Falcon and the Winter Solider. BTW I am NOT saying the stuff he did was okay, I'm just saying that I like him a lot better now then I used to.

Responsible-Bonus2782025-11-27 20:26

Why does everyone keep talking about the subdued criminal part like the same criminal wasn't actively holding him back to get stabbed which led to his best friend getting super punched to death? I mean that context is kind of important. I'm not really a "John Walker did nothing wrong" person - Like yeah as Captain America he shouldn't have done that but I feel like losing his shit there is one of the more human things he did.

Wooden-Radish-90082025-11-27 20:43

Because that incident had ended and John was no longer in danger. The criminal was fleeing and Walker had subdued him. From there, that individual should have been tried in court and convicted, not publically executed.

Morally and legally, Walker was in the wrong. I understand why he did what he did, anger and revenge, but that doesn't absolve him. He then tries to kill Sam.

Responsible-Bonus2782025-11-27 21:50

I feel like we're saying the same thing here. I never said it wasnt morally and legally wrong. I'm saying that being morally and legally wrong doesn't matter to a guy who just saw his friend get murdered. He's not an emotionless robot. Or Steve Rogers..where he's just going to be the bigger man. He acted how a normal human being would act which makes him interesting. Also honestly, I didn't really feel bad for the guy he killed. Like I know what Walker did was wrong but I get it. Saying the incident was over and he should have taken him in is too black and white.

Wooden-Radish-90082025-11-27 22:16

The way your response is framed can be read as excusing the behavior. I don't think adding that context was relevant to just putting together a quick list of the bad things he had done.

I understand *why* he did it, but the context is kind of irrelevant as informing these particular bad deeds doesn’t make them any more or less correct

askingtherealstuff2025-11-27 16:54

Yeah I’m not here for his fake redemption lol

horrorpiglet2025-11-27 10:41

First: any Zemo action in Civil War

Redemption: this wild night out

![gif](giphy|93RImebAuEKkgRzcPr)

Alone_Aspect_25002025-11-27 15:43

100% agree XD

RogerDeanVenture2025-11-27 17:45

I loved Zemo in CW - and I wish the series played a little more into the ethical conflict. Zemo - isn’t really a villain. Hell, frame the movie with him as the lead and he would be the hero.

peopIe_mover2025-11-27 18:46

The hero? He's a hypocrite that didnt hesitate to kill innocent people to get revenge. It would be like Spider-man killing people to lure out green goblin after aunt may died in no way home.

BlueCollarElectro2025-11-27 19:18

Well he was like a black ops oligarch so yeah there was killing in his history

Herbizarre172025-11-27 18:47

He killed a lot of people. Whatever his original motivation was, he killed people to get there and became a villain.

marvelcomics222025-11-27 10:50

I liked Black Widow more after The Winter Soldier, but I didn't hate her before that. As for the opposite, Grant Ward. He was so likeable and then it's revealed that he's a big, fat, freaking Nazi.

cobaltaureus2025-11-27 10:58

Natasha really became a starring role in that movie. That’s the kind of setting the Black Widow is meant to shine in. It’s a damn shame they waited so long for her movie

Eastern_Hornet_64322025-11-27 13:00

Most of Hydra weren't Nazis. Nazis at least believe in what they're doing. Most Hydra agents were simply power-hungry opportunists who saw a movement they could exploit. It's actually WORSE that they knew it was all bullshit but did it anyway.

marvelcomics222025-11-27 13:08

Sure, but I hate Grant Ward, so I will use any argument I can against him. (Wonderful character though)

Eastern_Hornet_64322025-11-27 14:18

I'm saying that Ward was WORSE than a Nazi, because he went along with Nazi shit despite not even believing in it.

Alone_Aspect_25002025-11-27 15:48

Indeed, he was very well written and betrayed Still hate his guts tho :3

Wooden-Radish-90082025-11-27 14:04

"Goons and henchmen are two completely different animals. Henchmen believe in the cause, goons are just there for the paycheck."

Alone_Aspect_25002025-11-27 15:47

SAME!!!! I will NEVER Forgive stupid Ward, SPECIFICALLY for also giving Fitz trauma and severe brain damage>:C

MysteriousLibrary4542025-11-27 18:11

I just read a spoiler. 😭 I’m still on season one of AoS and didn’t get to that part.

marvelcomics222025-11-28 10:36

I'm so sorry.

MysteriousLibrary4542025-11-29 02:16

It’s okay.

Stealthsonger2025-11-27 10:57

That first picture makes him look like Mister Magoo

Alone_Aspect_25002025-11-27 15:50

Yeah, I don't know why he looks so weird in that, reminds me of a baby for some reason

Defiant_Wheel48882025-11-27 10:59

He got dead threats notices. but honestly he cant be steve but i hope he have his own charecter arc.

Alone_Aspect_25002025-11-27 15:50

Same :)

swagonflyyyy2025-11-27 11:06

I dont like walker because his smile makes him look like a really bad landlord I had.

Alone_Aspect_25002025-11-27 15:51

askingtherealstuff2025-11-27 16:56

That’s so valid honestly

erinaceus_2025-11-27 11:34

He grew the beard.

Alone_Aspect_25002025-11-27 15:59

100% validation to start liking him XD

LordNineWind2025-11-27 11:43

I feel like his arc would have been improved if Bob had thought John was still Captain America, and that John had come to rescue him. Bob's adoration and faith in him would remind John of the way that he wanted people to see him, especially juxtaposed against him now as a disgraced black-ops agent for Valentina.

Alone_Aspect_25002025-11-27 16:01

True, that is good

harryr90002025-11-27 12:26

Whenever I see this pic I always think he looks like the young version of Carl from Disney Up.

Alone_Aspect_25002025-11-27 16:08

I never realized but your totally right XD

DeathKnellKettle2025-11-27 12:51

GRANT WARD! Does AoS count? Hated him in the beginning as vanilla bland pretty boy, and then he became sexy Ward in turn, turn, turn ep

Alone_Aspect_25002025-11-27 16:10

Meh, being attractive has never made me like him, still hate him for the things he's done

Kowendabest2025-11-27 12:56

I didn't even dislike walker in the series, He's more likable than both the main leads and the "sympathetic" villain. He was just doing his job and sam & bucky acted like killing terrorists was a bad thing lmao. I still get heated whenever they act like Walker was this villain or anti hero when he was just a normal soldier doing his duty.

Also If sam did not want him to be then should'nt have given the shield to the government in the first place. The show basically character assassinated both sam and bucky and they were shocked when his solo movie bombed.

Alone_Aspect_25002025-11-27 16:12

Those are very good points, I think the thing that made me not like him at first was just how prideful he was. Also, he wasn't "Just" doing his job, he killed a man who was surrendering and technically innocent, but it was a valid crash out from Walkers side, not an OK one but his best friend did just die.

Kowendabest2025-11-27 17:30

I can understand the not liking him because of him being a prideful douche.
But he was still just doing his job in that fight scene, he was ordered to neutralize the terrorists ,yes the killing of the surrendering guy was bad but he was a terrorist.

Walker was an ex soldier and killing or capturing a terrorist is a part of what he was trained for and I mean, steve killed a hell of a lot more people like that guy and its not like captain america has a no kill rule

Alone_Aspect_25002025-11-27 17:43

Yeah, he was very well written and betrayed, but justifying his actions isn't good. That's like saying scammers are just doing their job, it's not right, he didn't have to kill that man who was actively surrendering. That being said, i do enjoy the character, but he wasn't in the right.

Kowendabest2025-11-27 20:01

comparing scammers to soldiers is crazy. Would you say its wrong to have killed bin laden if he surrendered in the compound?

LyonsKing12_2025-11-27 14:10

Never hated Walker.

Will always hate that certain part of his fan base

Alone_Aspect_25002025-11-27 16:13

Same

Edit: hated him at first but now I don't but besides that, same

kyle03052025-11-27 14:16

Agreed with US Agent. They did a great job with him overall so far. You were meant to hate him in TFatWS but then come around to him in Thunderbolts* and they definitely nailed it

askingtherealstuff2025-11-27 16:55

Still hate him

He’s the living proof of why Steve Rogers needed to be a good man not a good soldier

actuallycallie2025-11-27 17:51

I hate him, but I enjoy hating him, if that makes sense.

Altego19992025-11-27 16:20

![gif](giphy|uBmTfTxCL5CHS)

I hated him in Avengers.

Sympathised for him in Thor, then saw him begin to redeem himself in Thor 2 (with ups and downs until Ragnarok and Infinity War). Finally, I saw him redeeming and sacrificing himself in IW.

Then, when Loki version 2 transformed from the selfish god of mischief to the god of stories to protect the multiverse, he earned my respect for eternity.

actuallycallie2025-11-27 17:51

seriously, the best character development

Killbro_Fraggins2025-11-27 16:44

Probably the same for me.

askingtherealstuff2025-11-27 16:53

Still hate him lol

Bargain basement Steve Rogers

Alone_Aspect_25002025-11-27 16:57

ricardo510682025-11-27 20:30

I liked Walker more in FATWS then Thunderbolts tbh.

Alone_Aspect_25002025-11-28 05:20

Very interesting

arcanevicupcake2025-11-27 20:42

![gif](giphy|VlrRiZAur3jylN2XKT)

asmodeuscarthii2025-11-28 00:13

Nah still hate him. Y’all weak.