I still dont get how Tony convinced peter to fight Captain America
So you have this living legend in your world that literally everyone knows about and learns about in school. This universes equivelent of superman. The guy that fought nazis, liberated camps and saved the world from Hydra on two seperate occasions. How the hell did Tony manage to convince Peter that Cap is bad now?
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/S just in case
Like that's all it would take lol.
Edit: or just downvote and delete your comment lol
like this wouldn't fly in the 90s--or *now*--(comic book Peter circa 2007 took Tony's side but was *very* skeptical of him, always had his hackles up when billionaires wanted his help, and turned on him quick), but MCU Peter as still young, had no Norman Osborne in his life, and grew up in the peak "Elon Musk will save the world" age.
Also, it's not like the guy asked my man to kill Cap. Tony presumably just told him that they'd just need to detain the guy and be done with it, probably forewarning him that everyone's gonna pull their punches anyways and that it's really just about getting the guy who wants to do the apparently wrong thing for the presumably right reasons to calm down. Like, it's really not that complicated.
"That you're wrong. You think you're right. And that makes you dangerous."
"Guess he had a point."
You = Steve
Especially since this Peter would probably be on the side of 'superheroes shouldn't be in the Accords.'
I have no idea how none of you are using an ounce of thought to the question. How did Tony Stark convince him Captain America was a criminal?
He has a loudspeaker
Same thing with Tony
I really do wonder if an older, even just 18-19yo Peter would have jumped so quickly to side with Tony.
The authorities even evacuated the airport in advance.
All Tony would have to do is show him the warrant.
And then out of nowhere Tony stark of all people shows up to his home?
If cap went to him 1st I could see him supporting him but it was all about who could show up 1st
“I’m-I’m 15…”
“THIS IS WHERE YOU ZIP IT!”
It was likely the soft sell "I need you to slow him down, were just trying to bring him in, talk to him, before anyone gets really hurt or something happens we cant walk back."
Caps arguement of “what if we need to be somewhere and they tell us we can’t go” occurs in the finale and for all his bluster Iron man breaks the accords and goes.
Everyone else who breaks the accord ends up in prison or on the run but Tony is fine.
He signs up all heroes to deal with his trauma and guilt over Ultron but because he is incredibly wealthy and connected he doesn’t suffer any of the negative effects himself.
In this movie he is the villain and it’s what makes Tony a complex in the mcu
If he was only following the law when it’s agreeable and broke it when it wasn’t that was exactly the same as cap, just they had different views on when the law became “unagreeable” due to Tony being blinded by guilt for making Ultron.
With distance from the events in Sokovia and after making peace with those demons Tony admits as much.
Tony has the Influence and power to tell the government to fuck off repeatedly and get away with it with little to no consequences throughout his trilogy.
The accords are only really binding him as long as he accepts it as we see in the film - every other masked hero especially street level would not be so lucky.
Heroes with secret identities would have to register and if there was a leak would put their loved ones at risk - Tony is both public and has built multiple battle suits specifically to protect his loved ones so once again is shielded from the full magnitude the accords would have.
Everybody in the film was doing what they thought was right all the way through even Zemo (exception below *)
That’s what makes it compelling but Tony’s actions in the finale and the lack of fallout does undermine his point and reveals that it is more he doesn’t trust his decision making after Ultron and abdicating that to a higher authority helps him cope with the guilt.
*with the exception of Tony when he finds out a mind controlled Bucky killed his mum and doesn’t care - definitely not what was right but human and understandable)
To put it in perspective,
Tony sabotaged a prisons security system, conspired with imprisoned criminals, lied to Ross, then illegally entered another sovereign nation to aid people who had been designated criminals.
“Stepping outside” is breaking the law the fact the languages used treats Tony with kid gloves pretty much sums up my point.
What part of that *isn’t* stark getting special treatment.
Even ignoring Cap, the accords weren’t just for the avengers they were for *all* exceptionally talented heroes.
There is no way someone like Jessica Jones gets the passes Iron man got even if she supported the accords from the start.
Prison, straight to prison for Tony.
Or hell
Or maybe they just told her Peter would be at Stark HQ for a few days and then flew private into Germany, bypassing border control.
1. Blind Idolism - Peter was a 15 year old Tech nerd who is meeting his hero (who saved his life given that it has been established that Peter was the Kid in Iron Man 2).
2. Acknowledgement - Letting Peter know that he is seen and is doing good, playing up the responsibility side of things, especially after Peter tells Tony why he is Spider-Man
3. Blackmail - Tony threatens to inform Aunt May knowing that Peter will do anything to prevent that, thus making him more prone to going along with what Tony wants.
Ultimately, this was a shitty move by a man who was desperate and trying anything to keep things together.
But Iron Man, literally Ironman, comes to you a kid who idolizes him and offers you money and help to be a hero. Then he tells you that this complicated symbol of US imperialism is trying to protect a war criminal and stop regulating super cops from killing random politicans. You’re not gonna hurt him because you’re ultimately still friends but you need him to be stopped. Because if you have power you need to be held accountable, cus yah know, with great power
Not trying to shit on Tony--he's no Elon Musk--but its telling that comic book Peter, who was a Gen Xer (and had met Norman Osbourne) was a hair more skeptical about joining Tony's fight, and ultimately switched sides.
Doylist answer: Spidey was pro registration in the comic this was based on.
The movie isn't a 1:1 with the Civil War comics. I don't think the Accords were the same as the mutant registration stuff.
"Cap thinks he's doing the right thing but is compromised," is not a hard sell. Especially coming from Iron Man, who generally works with him and thus would, presumably, know what he's talking about.
Hell, they were seen being arrested by War Machine, of all people, and then escaped custody.
It was a bad look. No spin needed. We're only on his side because the narrative was and we have the inside knowledge about Bucky, connecting us to them both.
Not to mention, this was about just arresting/webbing them up, not actively hurting anyone.
Iron Man didn’t convince Peter that Cap was evil. He convinced him that he was wrong. Cap isn’t some infallible being who stands as the authority on moral definitions. He’s just as capable as anyone else of making decisions based on emotion. Tony came to Peter talking about accountability, about responsibility. I’ve always been Team Cap in all the Civil War arcs, but stopping some bad guys doesn’t mean that you always know what’s wrong or right. Standing against the Avengers is different from standing against Hydra.
It's not so unbelievable that when Avengers are working with the authorities to arrest Cap in the way they did, that maybe Tony isn't lying.
Steve, very publicly defends bucky and attacks the swat teams trying to arrest Bucky.
Steve and Bucky both escape from the Joint Counter Terrorist Centre.
I don't think it would be hard to paint the narrative that Captain America is being dangerous. Especially to a 15 year old kid.
Tony is really the bad guy of the 2nd MCU phase all the way past Civil war. He is directly responsible for Sakovia, he is manipulated so easily to blame his allies for what he was responsible for, he then literally tries to commit cold blooded murder of an innocent man. Shitty dude really.
“Oh boy do I!”
Cap talks about the Avengers not being politicians and they'll always make the right choice, asking what happens if they don't get sent somewhere they think they should be or if they are sent somewhere they shouldn't.
When talking to Tony, Peter talks about when you have the ability to do things and you don't and then the bad things happen, they happen because of you.
That's almost exactly Cap’s point earlier in the movie.
Peter straight up explains it to cap when they talk: "you're wrong but you think you're right and thats dangerous".
Any question like this from the infinity saga is typically easily explained if you watch the movie.
Win win situation.
And Peter is pretty damn smart. He'd likely know what's going on in the news. He'd likely know that Cap broke the law and is a fugitive.