I genuinely dislike Endgame

Remove the final showdown, the awesome Cap moments, the Stark sacrifice, this movie horribly paced, horribly written, sloppy at very turn. An original MCU star is killed and mourned in tasteless fashion, Thanos isn't nearly as well written or formidable as he was in the last movie.

Infinity War is a tighter script, with better character interactions, better filmmaking. The arcs are clearer, there's more of a focus on a few key characters, the pacing is smoother throughout. It was certainly an experience in the theater, but I never revisit it as I do other MCU outings.

From a filmmaking perspective, can someone tell me what there is to like about this movie?

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Commentaires

Alert-Ad70972025-11-18 23:12

![gif](giphy|Fu9EXNUgJBRBe)

CEOofDisgust2025-11-18 23:12

okay

travisth152025-11-18 23:13

It’s honestly pretty overrated tbh. But it’s not bad , I would say it’s at best good to decent

Left4DayZGone2025-11-18 23:13

Captain Marvel shoots down from the heavens like a comet, blowing through Thanos’ massive ship like a bullet through soft butter, bringing it crashing to the ground in total destruction.

Needs to get a fancy glove across a battlefield of mostly inept alien fodder.

“How are you gonna get through all that?”

WITH HELP, as a team of friends, seemingly having all received a text message to show up at a particular trigger word, appear to help the invulnerable human missile who can fly through solid objects reach the brown shag wagon about a football field away.

Edit; I’m sorry I’m sorry it was a brilliant moment super great writing my mistake

jpiro2025-11-18 23:17

Did you miss that she was going to easily reach it...until Thanos threw his sword and blew the quantum tunnel up?

Left4DayZGone2025-11-18 23:23

I’m not talking about that, I’m talking about the moment she takes the gauntlet from Peter and he asks how she’s going to get there… and everyone shows up offering help.

Like… she doesn’t need help bro…

jpiro2025-11-18 23:27

So you're main gripe here is that other people on her side offered to help her save the universe even though she may not have needed it?

Left4DayZGone2025-11-18 23:29

My main gripe is that it was a stupid moment. Literal substitute any other character and it works just fine… but they chose the literally invincible character.

jpiro2025-11-18 23:34

Seems like a miserable way to be, but ok.

Left4DayZGone2025-11-18 23:37

What, to prefer good writing?

That moment was already done in IW and done much better.

sentient_luggage2025-11-18 23:24

I get the hate for this scene. BUT:

I worked in a theater when Endgame released. Part of my job was observing the auditoriums to ensure nobody was talking/using their phones. I watched a lot of audience reactions, and the look on young girl's faces when that moment happened was electric. They were hyped. Most of the adults seemed less so, but they were still in the moment.

It's a clunky scene, poorly written and awkwardly shot.

It also wasn't in the movie for you, or me. It was there for the girls.

Left4DayZGone2025-11-18 23:28

It’s like when movies have “insert for laughter” moments. Yes it works in the theater, but in rewatch, you go “oh, uh, that’s kinda bad”.

Like in The Dark Knight, after Joker does the pencil trick, there’s a distinct pause to allow the audience a moment to react.

I remember the first time watching it at home, and without the theater audience going apeshit, it hits totally differently.

BladeBoy__2025-11-18 23:38

Great example. The audience reaction was prime, but now that silence that follows is haunting.

Wooden-Radish-90082025-11-19 04:02

Man, this scene really bugs yall, huh...

Left4DayZGone2025-11-19 04:17

I don’t know who “y’all” is, but… It’s the dumbest moment in the film, sure, but it’s not the only dumb moment.

A rat brings Scott back…couldn’t have had some dude messing with the van, no, a rat. Ok.

How did Thanos use the quantum tunnel? Where did he get Pym Particles?

Those things are passable but the captain marvel thing… we JUST watched her down a space ship by flying through it and now we’re being shown that she needs help getting to the van.

Wooden-Radish-90082025-11-19 04:45

You. The ya'll is you.

Also, not that you're really worth the time, but the Pym Particles Thanos uses are the ones Nebula was going to use to travel back to the present before she was captured. Maybe watch the movie next time instead of raging out because too many women were on screen?

Left4DayZGone2025-11-19 04:52

Whoa, what the fuck now? Who said anything about women, and who was raging?

You doing ok over there?

Wooden-Radish-90082025-11-19 04:59

I'm good man! Just helping some redditors with self awareness!

ds6292025-11-19 23:00

[deleted]

Wooden-Radish-90082025-11-20 00:46

I'm confused. How is that a plot hole?

ds6292025-11-20 00:57

[deleted]

Wooden-Radish-90082025-11-20 03:00

I'm confused why you are calling it a plot hole when it clearly isn't?

ds6292025-11-20 03:57

[deleted]

Wooden-Radish-90082025-11-20 15:16

Nebula goes back in time using one vial, and has one left to return

Past Nebula steals it and gives it to Thanos who makes more

FrnchsLwyr2025-11-18 23:14

Negative attention is a kind of attention, i guess.

SinginGidget2025-11-18 23:16

Thanos discovers their plan to undo something he will do in the future, comes up with a plan to thwart it, reverse uno's his own trip into the past where he knows the Avengers will have gathered all of the stones for him, and nearly completes his mission but is stopped at the very last moment because Tony used tech we saw on screen being depicted that Thanos wasn't aware of and Tony had to dust him and all of his minions just to be rid of him but he wasn't as formidable? Ok.

Dissidence8022025-11-18 23:16

![gif](giphy|ukGm72ZLZvYfS)

Notchibald_Johnson2025-11-18 23:17

![gif](giphy|jH6s9HMMi53dSdI73r)

Cultural_Comfort58942025-11-18 23:18

It’s an excellent film in every aspect of filmmaking 🔥🎞️

Liking another film more doesn’t change that 🤷‍♂️

Plenty of good movies I don’t care for but they’re still good movies 🍿

C’est la vie

kingpigzy2025-11-18 23:18

What I like about Endgame is how they’re truly shown as heroes. In Infinity War, they’re fighting for survival because they have no choice. In Endgame, they choose to risk everything just for a shot at bringing back the other 50%. Tony could have stayed with his family and lived a happy life but instead he did the right thing, even though it led to his demise.

BladeBoy__2025-11-18 23:22

It was nice to see Tony have that experience. His role as a parent was super refreshing. Ig there is a subliminal theme of having what you want vs doing what's right/jumping into the fight. I like the Doomsday theory that Steve's reunion with Peggy is what's causing multiversal chaos.

shellexyz2025-11-18 23:26

I liked how adamant he was about not changing the past, not stopping the first snap, but bringing people back to the current world. He knows how much he has to lose, even if it would be a “never existed” thing that’s not gonna be painful or suffering.

And Pepper’s argument that he can’t *not* help. She knows he’s going to feel compelled.

IamOB1-462025-11-18 23:19

I’m not a big endgame fan either. For me, the biggest issue is the cheat Cap and Tony use to get more Pym particles. It’s just so easy. Feels like a 3rd act Start Trek episode solution.

And I’ve always said that as cool as Tony’s last moment is, the better arc for him would have been sacrificing himself for the soul stone. To see if he could really trust the team to get it done after he made the ultimate sacrifice. Let Cap make the final snap.

They just took the easy way out over and over, and it makes for great fan service but only a so so movie.

Finally, on IW, I just wish that the start of Endgame was the ending of IW. I get why they left it there, but killing post snap Thanos would have been a much stronger stopping point.

BladeBoy__2025-11-18 23:25

I feel like Tony and his daddy issues have already been addressed better in other outings, I was just waiting for that segment to be over. I'll have to disagree with you on his sacrifice though, "I am Iron Man" is an all timer for me.

IamOB1-462025-11-18 23:34

It’s an awesome line. And it’s pure Tony, I mean, he dies in a way that absolutely the whole world knows it was him who saved the universe.

Which is why I want the quiet sacrifice for him. For him to decide is has to be Cap to finish it.

BladeBoy__2025-11-18 23:46

Never thought of it like that. it could be a nice subversion to have him go in an as unceremonious a way as possible.

alexjf562025-11-18 23:20

Here’s that attention you ordered. It’s infinity war that is poorly written and makes no sense. Everything in that movie happens because of three people being painfully stupid

BladeBoy__2025-11-18 23:23

Much appreciated thank you!

Aggravating_Cup23062025-11-18 23:21

Yeah i do not understand the better character interactions thing. The main cast is split from each other for most of the time. Thor's most interactions are with rocket and eitri. Tony was mostly around peter and strange, and had mostly conflict with quill. Steve was just there to bring everything together, and really the only great interactions were between vision/wanda and gamora/peter/thanos. Nebula is introduced with some promise but that is kept hidden

Look at endgame- steve and tony get a lot of resolve and drama. Clint and Natasha balance each other pretty well, Nebula and Gamora together just seems as good as GOTG 2, Rocket actually feels like a companion to Thor which strengthens what we saw before and the limiting of characters just keeps things really consistent emotionally, especially in the backstory for Tony with Howard

BladeBoy__2025-11-18 23:37

Gotta disagree. Strange/Stark is a livewire from the moment the two meet each other. Steve and Vision have some great moments, in both of their limited screentimes I'll add. Peter, Gamora, Thanos / Vision, Wanda are excellent as well. The pairings you list here we've seen already done better in previous movies. In all three plots (Thor, Stark, Wakanda) we get to see new interactions for the first time. Who knew that Rocket/Prime Thor would be so fun?

While I like Tony and his moments well enough in Endgame, **especially** his freakout in the first act, the movie seems more concerned with establishing time travel rules, doing the whole "smart hulk" thing (which I hate) and retreading old arcs we've already seen (i.e. Tony and Howard).

And I will never forgive them for how dirty they did Natasha.

Fares265972025-11-18 23:24

I don't know how to say it from a "filmmaking perspective", but the movie gave me a hell of an enjoyable experience, and it wouldn't be able to do that if the things that make it up (script, acting, etc) weren't good for the most part. How do I know that they're good for the most part? Because they culminated in a movie that I enjoyed. That's the only metric that matters as far as i'm concerned.

BladeBoy__2025-11-18 23:44

IW felt more intentional with it's staging, camera movements. Examples: The long take of Tony leaving the sanctorum and we see the chaos from the ground level, the long take of Ebony Maw's feet introducing Thanos to the audience over a scene of death, the music cutting out when Thanos faces off against the Earth Avengers, young Gamora being abducted by Thanos.

Ig there seemed to be more intention that didn't make its way into Endgame. Endgame is essentially a bunch of actors on a soundstage and a talking in a community college boardroom. It's void of cinematic precision or style.

Fares265972025-11-18 23:49

Even if I were to agree with that, which I can't tell because I'm not putting enough thought into it to know, my question is, why does any of that matter? Why does it have any value, if ultimately, my levels of appreciation for both movies are pretty equal?

BladeBoy__2025-11-18 23:58

*Everyone can like what they like*. But when I watch a movie I want the filmmakers to use every aspect of the medium to the fullest extent to tell the story. The moments of silence, the shaky cam that genuinely makes you feel uneasy, the naturalistic lighting that convinces you there's really a big purple man here talking to you about morality. It's this stuff that brings good writing to life and makes films stick with me. Recent MCU installments have been great with this, namely TB and FF.

Fares265972025-11-19 00:03

That's totally valid, and I more or less agree. I'm just addressing the subject at hand. You gave your reasons for why you dislike Endgame. I said that the things that ruined your experience with it didn't negatively impact my experience with it, at least not to the point that it made me like it less than IW.

Martenite2025-11-18 23:26

I liked Endgame but I will agree that Infinity War is a better movie. Better paced, better story, better Thanos. I really don't like smart Hulk either. Although the lack of Hulk in IW was kinda crappy too.

BladeBoy__2025-11-18 23:39

Bruce's moments took me out of the movie a little during IW, but not nearly as much as any Smart Hulk time in Endgame.

spidervenom6192025-11-19 00:05

As much as myself and almost the rest of my family loathe the Natasha's Death Scene and the fact that the WRONG OG AVENGER DIED, Endgame is simply a better movie that balance more characters arcs better written in then Infinity War. Name me major one thing that any character other then Tony, Odinson, or Thanos did in IW. I can tell you several major moments that almost each of main Avengers and even some of the New Avengers did in Endgame.

Also, the reason why Thanos isn't the same exact character from Infinity War is the fact he's from a earlier part in his timeline and is weaker then 2018 Thanos.

BladeBoy__2025-11-19 00:16

Not sure if I totally understand the prompt. Steve and his team saving Vision and essentially introducing Wakanda to the other Avengers, Gamora urging the love of her life to kill her if she's found by Thanos, Strange doing the one thing he swore to never do in order to preserve life by sacrificing the time stone. There's a lot to appreciate in IW aside from moments of cheap fan service and obvious character interactions.

Just because Endgame gives everyone a task doesn't mean that those story beats are necessarily well balanced. I wouldn't say everyone needed to be included in the "gauntlet" hand off, for example.

Maybe I just mean that Thanos telling someone why he's right to kill half the population is more menacing to me than him punching everyone out for 45 minutes.

Diortheking2025-11-19 00:07

I didnt like any of the time travel stuff

BladeBoy__2025-11-19 00:23

I feel like introducing the Illuminati could have been a better angle. At this point in the universe, the characters are more accustomed to beings of immense power, and something like that snap could have been the impetus to construct a team that is more of a universal strategy thing more than the fight team that The Avengers are.

Granted a lot of people were snapped, but we could have kept some key members to continue the compelling moral dilemmas presented in IW.

Ched_Flermsky2025-11-19 00:27

ok thanks for letting us know

Golbeza2025-11-19 03:09

Okay dude cool?

birbanka2025-11-19 03:30

Yo, I feel ya on Endgame bein a mess, the pacing is like a laggy load screen lol! Definately feels whaat?? but the whole snap showdown gave me mad feels, even if Thanos felt kinda soft compared to Infinity War. Still, the cap moments tho, they hit like a crit!

BladeBoy__2025-11-19 04:33

Cap facing down the army is truly peak MCU

NathanD12342025-11-19 16:56

As a standalone movie, yes it does suffer from pacing issues and a sloppier script. But it’s not meant to be a standalone script. It’s meant to be the culmination of the entire Infinity Saga and when you take that into perspective, it’s an absolute masterpiece. I’m just awed at how Marvel Studios was able to pull off Endgame with all the baggage of the previous movies.

Unfortunately I don’t think this will be replicated by Doomsday or Secret Wars

Best theatre experience I’ve ever had in my life.

BladeBoy__2025-11-19 17:32

Most sober response I’ve read yet. The movie as a theatrical experience is unlike anything we’ll probably see again. I’d love for DD and SW to not try and replicate it, rather tell a compelling story.

Edit: granted these new ones don’t have the benefit of being able to rehash nostalgia as Endgame did. Worst case scenario the movie directly takes after Hickman’s run, which wouldn’t be half as bad as watching smart hulk give ant man a taco.