Simu Liu on Shang-Chi in ‘Avengers: Doomsday’ and People ‘Shtting’ on Superhero Films Because It’s ‘Fashionable’: I Still Believe in ‘What Those Movies Stand For’
>“It [Doomsday] was really awesome, exciting. So many actors that I grew up watching, and to get to kind of play in that sandbox with them…it’s a dream come true. I grew up watching superhero movies and wanting to believe that the outcasts and the nerds and the weirdos could find it in themselves to have superpowers and save the day. That’s what 12-year-old me clung on to. I still believe, for better or for worse, in the power of what those movies stand for today.”
>Liu hits back at the wave of criticism that’s been hurled at superhero movies. “It’s kind of fashionable now to hate on it. I think there are valid critiques of the way that movies are made, the way that production budgets are handled, I think that there are a lot of valid things to say, but this idea of shitting on superhero movies as a genre, I don’t know. I don’t know I because I am speaking as somebody who just absolutely loved watching them as a kid.”
Next_Explanation96462025-11-15 03:15
ttotally get that, it’s like letting nostalgia be part of the conversation too, right?
Paladar22025-11-15 11:02
He’s right. Superhero movies hate is so forced
n_mcrae_19822025-11-14 21:54
As do I, Simu. As do I.
Striking_Guess15912025-11-14 22:03
Same -- -\_- but also mutants sooner, dang it
AdditionalBanana95852025-11-14 22:38
Nothing but mutants next year with X-Men '97 season 2, the Wolverine game, and Doomsday.
sucksfor_you2025-11-14 23:54
Wolverine's out next year? Nice!
AdditionalBanana95852025-11-15 00:03
In the fall
tom-of-the-nora2025-11-15 04:18
It has a special blood effect system.
AStealthyPerson2025-11-15 12:51
Matter of fact, we need some heroes now more than ever.
n_mcrae_19822025-11-15 21:57
They can be heroes… just for one day.
carlitospig2025-11-16 19:21
I’m old enough to know this reference.
carlitospig2025-11-16 19:20
We give them heroes and they vote the villains in.
Johnny02302025-11-14 21:54
If Infinity War and Endgame had come out today...
FewWatermelonlesson02025-11-14 21:56
After this run of movies?
Johnny02302025-11-14 22:06
Regardless of the films that came before. He's right when he says that criticism of comic book movies these days is more of a trend than a real criticism. In the past, very low-quality films were defended, while today, high-quality films are condemned.
FewWatermelonlesson02025-11-14 22:06
What high quality films were condemned?
Johnny02302025-11-14 22:15
Fantastic 4, Thunderbolts, Eternals etc (I know the first two were mostly appreciated, but I've read some really incomprehensible reviews)
FewWatermelonlesson02025-11-14 22:17
The first two movies are both in the high 80s on Rotten Tomatoes and Eternals, while it had some things I liked about it, was a meandering mess.
suss2it2025-11-14 22:31
So if you know that 2 out 3 of your examples are mostly appreciated then why are you trying to use them as examples of good movies that were condemned? 😭
Johnny02302025-11-14 22:33
I specified it in the next sentence
suss2it2025-11-14 22:36
Yeah but you can can find a bad and uncharitable review for any movie, so saying those specific movies have been “condemned” when you know it’s not true doesn’t exactly back up your point.
qlz192025-11-14 23:08
That’s not the way “making a point” works.
sortalikeachinchilla2025-11-14 22:36
I took it as condemned from the box office. Like they were good, but the box office sales didn’t show it, compared to previous marvel films
suss2it2025-11-14 22:40
I took it as bad faith criticisms because that’s specifically what he said. But yeah the MCU pretty much cratered at the box office this year and that is a more tangible example of how people are feeling about it than just reviews.
sortalikeachinchilla2025-11-14 22:53
But so did superman, obviously only one and did better than f4 (by a lil bit)
I do think it’s trends, and not necessarily completely about if the movies are actually good or not from that angle. Just less people care about going to see superhero stuff.
And I think the actually bad superhero movies didn’t help with the overall trend
suss2it2025-11-14 23:01
*Superman* cratered at the international box office, but its domestic numbers were so strong that it’s currently the 3rd highest grossing movie of the year in that category. It also in general made $100 million more than *First Steps* so I’d say it did better by more than just a lil bit, lol.
Also box office isn’t an indication of quality as box office is objective and the latter is subjective, but I do agree that overall it definitely shows a downward trend of interest for superhero movies.
AnOnlineHandle2025-11-14 23:10
Thunderbolts felt more like a filler to me, somewhat okay but not really a memorable movie (I can't remember almost anything from the 2nd half).
Eternals I kind of like parts of but get why people don't, and think they did a really poor job of integrating it into the MCU's universe or doing what they could have with it.
Haven't seen FF so can't judge it, but it just doesn't look very interesting.
vim_deezel2025-11-14 23:39
eternals had a very different feel than most marvel movies, that's for sure, but so did winter soldier, and it too was a great movie but superhero fatigue didn't kill its boxoffice like it did eternals.
AnOnlineHandle2025-11-15 00:17
It wasn't the feel which was the issue for me, it was the integration into the pre-existing setting, or lack there of.
e.g. Antman retcons Pym into being involved in Shield with Stark and Peggy and even Hydra, as a pre-existing superhero who was kept secret, and was a perfect way of retconning into their world. Eternals just mentioned Thor used to run around their ankles in a way which doesn't feel legitimate at all like they really take place in the same universe. Apparently in the comics the Eternals DNA within humanity is the underlying reason for most superhuman abilities being possible, which is a great plot point tying things together which they lost by making the changes that they did.
vim_deezel2025-11-14 23:37
people are downvoting you but you are correct
FewWatermelonlesson02025-11-14 23:40
Except he’s literally not. FF has an 86 on RT and Thunderbolts has 88. They were overwhelmingly positively reviewed.
vim_deezel2025-11-14 23:43
and yet they didn't even hit 2.5X box office necessary to break even
Heisenburgo2025-11-15 04:21
>Eternals
>high quality film
Hah.
fast_flashdash2025-11-14 22:07
Or maybe just maybe the quality of them has drastically dropped.
Johnny02302025-11-14 22:14
We've had Hulk, Iron Man 2, Thor 2, and Iron Man 3 back-to-back, and those, in my opinion, are significantly inferior even to the more poorly-regarded modern productions (Thor 4 aside). Not to mention Ant-Man 2 and Avengers 2. The situation has never been perfect, with only masterpieces; we've had some great films, but also some more questionable ones, as is perfectly normal in a 30-film saga.
Federal-Captain11182025-11-14 22:33
Whenever someone says Thor 4 is the worst MCU
Meanwhile..
>Thor 2
HardenedNipple2025-11-15 17:08
I'd watch Thor 2 twice if it meant I didn't have to watch Love & Thunder
Federal-Captain11182025-11-14 22:32
Nah. The MCU has always been very meh to mid with some great sprinkled in.
YesImHereAskMeHow2025-11-14 23:50
Drastically? You’re too dramatic
santa99912025-11-14 22:12
I’d like to know which high quality movies you are seeing that are being condemned?
Subject-Ad50712025-11-14 22:12
Yeah, Barbie and Oppenheimer and Dune are condemned lmao. Why isn’t anyone lifting up The Marvels or Captain America 4 like they did Thor 2 and Avengers 2. Oh wait, they didn’t because people had tack and criticized those movies for not being very good correctly.
Johnny02302025-11-14 22:16
What do Barbie, Oppenheimer, and Dune have to do with each other? I'm talking about Marvel.
Subject-Ad50712025-11-14 22:18
I did misread a little bit. I thought you wrote that today high quality films are condemned and I named off high quality films that aren’t. But that point is flawed. No one defended or glazed the less good Marvel movies back then. Wait, I reread. My point stands. High quality movies are not condemned today lmao. And what is this implying? That the MCU movies are high quality movies that are being condemned? Get the fuck out of here lmao
Johnny02302025-11-14 22:29
They have not been defended, but films like Iron Man 2, Thor 2, Iron Man 3, Hulk, Avengers 2 and Ant Man 2 have never caused such a negative and pessimistic trend, in addition to the fact that those very questionable films today are often "forgotten" to talk about the current great Marvel crisis
Subject-Ad50712025-11-14 22:36
Those movies aren’t controversial. Let’s start with that. Ant-Man 2? That got a 85%, what are you talking about… and even then, at least it isn’t glazed like Fantastic Four lol.
But btw, this is the consequence of a franchise. No one wants to see a franchise stagnate. People want to see change, positive change. This is stagnation and negative change.
Also, nah, people including me were worried that Age of Ultron was an indication of the quality going down for the whole franchise. People were worried in the early days when a really not good movie came out because it could mean the downward decline of the franchise. I actually became more optimistic and when Eternals came out, I held hope lmao. Now we hear people saying The Marvels is peak lmfao. A movie that feels so pooped out and AI generated. At least Thor 2 was just boring at most. Age of Ultron would be peak to you people today.
gt35r2025-11-14 22:29
They'd be enjoyed just like they were?
Johnny02302025-11-14 22:34
they would not have, nor would they have had, the same cultural weight
gt35r2025-11-14 22:40
This is just hypothetical revisionism, if the movies today had the same quality and buildup as Infinity War/Endgame the audiences would absolutely react the same way.
AaronsAaAardvarks2025-11-14 22:46
…you would have already fucked up the timeline of reality to the point that the comparison wouldn’t make sense. People’s reactions to superhero movies are in part because infinity war and endgame weren’t the end of it, and everything since has felt like milking a dead horse.
AnOnlineHandle2025-11-14 23:07
Not everything, but too much of it. WandaVision and Agatha All Along were great. Daredevil was decent. GoTG 3 and Spiderman 3 were great. A few others were flawed but still good (IMO Loki, Ms Marvel).
There's also a lot of junk which became overwhelming, and outright terrible stuff like Secret Invasion, Thor 4, Dr Strange 2, Antman 3, which made me lose interest in the franchise. Fantastic Four is out on streaming and I tried to get excited to watch it, then realized that I just don't care anymore. For all the hype that fans gave Thunderbolts, it was just okay with an unsatisfyingly comical villain.
YesImHereAskMeHow2025-11-14 23:49
Dr strange 2 was awesome. And out of all the content they released if they only had a few outright bad titles it still shows they have a good batting average and juice in the tank.
Visible-Meeting-89772025-11-14 21:58
Nothing makes a dude look worse than dwelling on the "haters". You're in a massive successful film franchise and you're still concerned with some people "shitting on it" you sound like a teenager.
Bebopy692025-11-14 22:03
Or, more reasonably, if you're asked about criticism during an interview, you should respond to it instead of ignoring the question like a weirdo.
Vumi_2025-11-14 22:04
There's nothing with addressing people who are shitting on and/or criticizing the superhero genre. How does that make one 'sound like a teenager.'? Could Simu have ignored them? Absolutely. But is there anything particularly wrong with acknowledging them? Not at all
LampyV22025-11-14 22:02
We love Simu Liu
EmperorChop22025-11-14 22:02
Vast-Bat-32025-11-14 22:07
I love him so not complaining by why is he and Alan Cumming the only actors I see even talking about their roles in the movie😭
DistinctBread30982025-11-14 22:12
Because they are cheap to hire for marketing
Federal-Captain11182025-11-14 22:31
Most of them know they're not allowed to talk yet lol
Traditional_Bottle502025-11-15 02:27
Even Channing Tatum has spoken a little bit about it, but the movie is a year out and we won't be getting our first look till the 2nd half of December anyway, makes sense why not many actors/actresses are talking about it right now.
carlitospig2025-11-16 19:21
Wait, is Gambit in Doomsday?
UnitedBuilding82025-11-17 07:29
Yes, he was in the chair live stream with everybody else.
carlitospig2025-11-17 16:12
I didn’t watch it, my bad.
GatorToothNecklace2025-11-15 14:58
It's just strange to me that they don't use him more. He's a good actor, audiences like his energy, he's handsome (I'd put him in "very handsome but approachable" category with Chris Evans), and he likes playing the character. That's a dude you should push.
Difficult_Maybe_182025-11-16 04:20
You forgot Channing Tatum & Florence Pugh
Subject-Ad50712025-11-14 22:10
These actors are starting to just glaze the franchise because they’re told to lol. It’s so obvious. Elizabeth Olsen subtly shaded it before this year. Iman Vellani subtly shaded The Marvels the same month it came out.
What do they stand for now… They lost meaning… They used to have so much meaning.
ich-bin-on-that-shit2025-11-14 22:10
DJfunkyPuddle2025-11-14 22:12
Same same
yuuki1572025-11-14 22:17
I have a controversial opinion...but i do feel that the general public is tired of specifically Marvel media than superheroes in general...
AdditionalBanana95852025-11-14 22:42
Disagree. Superman aside, most Marvel movies in the past few years have done better than DC's previous outings in the same time frame. The TV side is a little different since people have voiced enjoying most of what both studios have released recently.
BatmanForever232025-11-15 00:35
Yeah, cause the DCEU was a shitfest from the start - hardly a fair comparison. DC have had some big hits outside of that, such as Superman, the Batman, and Joker, but it's a disingenuous comparison to claim Marvel has done better when that 'same time frame' was the MCU's apex and DC's lowest point.
the_old_coday1822025-11-14 22:44
Nah… the general public doesn’t care that much. If they want to see a superhero movie, that’s what they’ll do. They don’t care if it’s MCU or DC.
But I do think the general public likes “household” heroes more. The Batman’s and Spider-Man’s as opposed to the lesser known heroes getting their own shows/movies.
That’s why the MCU is getting back into the Avengers titles and bringing guys like RDJ back.
Correct-Chemistry6182025-11-14 22:54
Peacemaker is lesser known and had his own show- it's a banger that was top 1 on HBO Max and it's very popular.
daemonescanem2025-11-14 23:04
Peacemaker is underrated.
Its dark, funny, goofy, campy, but damn it has heart.
qlz192025-11-14 23:06
An exception does not disprove the rule.
Correct-Chemistry6182025-11-15 10:15
The Boys is a show based on a niche comic book with no connection to Marvel or DC and their most popular heroes. Sure, the first season came out in 2019, a year when the superhero trend was still thriving, but the rest of the series took place mostly post-COVID and was still a cult hit.
Invincible is based on an even more niche comic book (obviously known to comic book fans but unknown to the general public), yet the show has become a cult classic.
Penguin is a famous Batman villain, but the general public probably associates him more with the DeVito version, and it's unlikely anyone would have thought a project about him would be successful. Yet the series has become a critically acclaimed cult classic.
Creature Commandos is based on completely unknown characters, yet it was highly praised, and some catchphrases and characters have become cult classics (particularly G.I. Robot and its obsession with Nazis).
What do all these projects (which seem a bit too many to be an exception) have in common? They're high-quality and (especially since quality depends on the subjectivity of each individual) captivating, memorable ideas, precisely because they were written with commitment and not as if "OK, we have to put this character/event in this universe, let's write a story around it."
And this is also why Iron Man managed to stand out in a mass of bland superhero movies like Daredevil, Ghost Rider, and that other nonsense, or why Daredevil is still remembered as a cult series while the other Defenders series outside of the fan niche are less well-remembered.
(Of course, the same applies to some stories featuring popular heroes, always crafted with care, passion, and the ability to create instant cult classics, see Spider-Verse or Superman or Logan).
the_old_coday1822025-11-14 23:15
I mean that’s just John Cena lol.
BatmanForever232025-11-15 00:33
If you watched Peacemaker, you'd know that John Cena is a damn fine actor who does a lot more than just be John Cena.
Tipop2025-11-15 00:57
I think you misunderstood him. He wasn’t disparaging Cena, he was saying the only reason Peacemaker was so great was because of Cena’s charisma.
I’m not here to agree or disagree, just trying to clarify what looks like a miscommunication.
BatmanForever232025-11-15 01:28
That would also be nonsense, as Peacemaker is so much more than just a vehicle for John Cena. Not sure why you'd be best placed to decide what the other guy meant, either.
Correct-Chemistry6182025-11-15 10:01
Before this role, he wasn't even remotely a mainstream movie or TV star, but was known only as a wrestler. So what's the point, that people watched the show just for him?
Also, David Corenswelt is a less famous actor than Pedro Pascal: according to your reasoning, Fantastic Four should have grossed much more than Superman, yet it didn't. Secret Invasion starred Samuel L. Jackson, one of the most famous actors of all time, but it was a flop hated by those who saw it and failed to enter pop culture at all.
Again, what's the point?
qlz192025-11-14 23:05
It’s mostly because none of the main characters are even involved anymore.
Nobody gives a shit about all these third tier heroes.
No matter how hard they try to convince us that we do.
-Boston-Terrier-2025-11-15 02:26
The Avengers were basically all B-list heroes at absolute best before the movies made them household names. The only reason Marcel even still had the rights to them was because Fox and Sony didn’t want them when they were licensing their A-list heroes out.
One thing I don’t think people talk enough about is how the MCU uses A-listers now. The MCU was built on the backs of lesser known actors who basically became their characters. I like Pedro Pascal well enough but he’s in so many things that he just doesn’t feel like Reed Richards the way RDJ felt like Tony Stark.
AnOnlineHandle2025-11-14 23:12
I'm tired of the type of movies they're making now, and wish they'd make things like they used to. I still love Avengers 1, Captain America 1 & 2, Antman 1, GoTG 1 & 3, Spiderman 3, etc. There has been some good ones in the post Endgame run, but far too much crap.
Necromanta1982025-11-15 00:00
Literally only She-Hulk, Secret Invasion, Thor 4 and MAYBE Quantum Mania have been straight up bad, every other "bad" one has actually been good or AT WORST Average.
AnOnlineHandle2025-11-15 00:15
Dr Strange 2 was terrible. Most of the shows have been pretty middling, somehow feeling like they're mostly filler despite only being a few episodes. She Hulk was semi okay with a lack of any actual plot.
-Boston-Terrier-2025-11-15 02:23
I feel like a lot of post-Endgame movies are just long chase scenes.
Dr Strange 2, Thunderbolts, and Fantastic Four are perfect examples.
AnOnlineHandle2025-11-15 13:04
Yeah that's a fair summary.
Domination17992025-11-14 23:46
I disagree, I think the general public is tired of superhero media because they’re so homogenized and are pretty much the same films. They’re comedic spectacles designed to set up the next thing instead of being an actual film with three dimensional characters that have arcs.
A reason why The Dark Knight is still considered to be the pinnacle of superhero films is because it’s not focused on being accurate to comics, it’s focused on just being a good film.
If superhero films want to be taken seriously, than they need to follow that same philosophy.
-Boston-Terrier-2025-11-15 02:20
IMO, Spider-Man 2 is the pinnacle of superhero films but I agree with everything else. I think most of the criticism the MCU gets is fair.
My biggest complaint is the movies no longer function as standalone movies. They’re all just the next chapter in the MCU with no real beginning and end. They just continue the previous movie and set up the next one which leads to a lot of mediocre movies. And it doesn’t help that the MCU has become incredibly formulaic while doing it.
CaptHayfever2025-11-15 06:06
> My biggest complaint is the movies no longer function as standalone movies. They’re all just the next chapter in the MCU with no real beginning and end. They just continue the previous movie and set up the next one
That's something people keep *saying*, but I don't see it. Which recent movie doesn't have its own ending?
theoneandonlyamateur2025-11-15 12:56
>That's something people keep *saying*, but I don't see it. Which recent movie doesn't have its own ending?
It's not that most MCU films don't have a true ending or 3rd act - they do - the problem is that they're just a small chapter before a huge team-up crossover film like the Avengers, and the audience already knows it.
Therefore, the problem is that there aren't really any stakes. There's no tension, because we know that Black Panther or Captain America or whomever is going to survive the story and villain of the month to make it to the next team-up.
What's worse is that the this multiverse has become a cheap trick to bring back characters from the dead so now "no one's ever really gone."
Avon_Parksales2025-11-15 14:36
Then it's like the comics it's based on. Comics always veer off and then somehow, in story, they come back to the status quo. For example. Ironman was dead. Like actually dead for years in comics. Then boom. Comic book stuff happened and he's back with a new series.
Variation_Afraid2025-11-15 14:15
No I don’t think anyone is tired of marvel media if that was the case, why did Deadpool 3 made 1. Some billion dollars and shattered records?, Thunderbolts and F4 had amazing reviews despite not making HUGE money, and also isn’t marvel rivals huge as well?, what people are tired of is mediocre movies not marvel as a brand
KoellmanxLantern2025-11-14 22:18
Same here Simu. Post endgame was going to be rough even under the best of circumstances but the pandemic didn't help. I even enjoy a lot of the youtubers who roast movies but people who write off everything in phase 5 and 6 are missing out on a lot of hidden gems. I'd say it's at least 50/50 of good and disappointing. The only truly awful ones for me were secret invasion and BNW. Everything else was at least mid or better
nerdlygames2025-11-14 22:19
It’s fashionable because they’ve been shit for a while now
Bergerboy142025-11-14 22:39
Yeah let’s not pretend the quality hasn’t dipped
Top-Buffalo-98672025-11-14 23:51
In this context, fashionable isn’t even the right word to be describing the state of the MCU. They’ve just been bad (see Modok in Antman 3). The FX artists even know it—I don’t get the backlash to the backlash, here.
-Boston-Terrier-2025-11-15 02:27
It’s an MCU fan sub.
There are a lot of fanboys here who have to defend everything the MCU does.
Top-Buffalo-98672025-11-15 03:39
True.
CaptHayfever2025-11-15 06:13
I see you didn't watch GotG 3 or Deadpool & Wolverine or Thunderbolts or First Steps, 5-year-old account with only 2 weeks of activity, all of which bashing the MCU?
jamesbondswanson2025-11-14 22:21
Yeah it’s definitely fashionable to shit on anything once it becomes very successful. It helps people without a personality stand out by being a contrarian. I rather be exposed to these hopeful movies with positive messages than a violent gore fest movie.
GarlicBreadOutrage2025-11-14 22:24
Thank you Shang-Chi actor, who's starring in the next Avengers movie from Marvel Studios for giving your completely non-biased opinion in this interview about your current projects.
BenjaminAPete22025-11-14 22:28
I’ll just say that my 13 year old son is very excited for Doomsday and Secret Wars. He’s really only seen a handful of the movies before Infinity War and Endgame. He’s also seen Fantastic 4 and Thunderbolts and a couple other movies post Endgame. I don’t think he’s seen any of the tv shows, but he’s really looking forward to it.
DC_deep_state2025-11-14 22:34
I hope he's like the main character of Doomsday
tangodeep2025-11-14 22:38
What a coincidence. Just rewatched Shang Chi for the first time since its release. I vibe with everything that he says. Regarding Shang Chi, that film has entertaining, but also missed SO many opportunities to be a legendary film.
0LoveAnonymous02025-11-14 22:57
Honestly good for him. People act like it’s a personality trait to hate superhero movies now. If he’s proud of his work, let him be.
Ambitious-Pirate-5052025-11-14 23:00
Its a combination of bots, covid, group think and people profiting off of the negativity.
rodot20052025-11-14 23:08
They fucked this dude over
Jimmy2tx2025-11-14 23:30
I still believe this guy talks way too much
Top-Buffalo-98672025-11-14 23:47
Then give a good story to these OR stick with the original stories—plain as day reasoning, here. Look at FanFOURstic. You could EASILY make a sci fi movie with how that one came out and call it anything but Fantastic Four and it probably would’ve been somewhat more tolerable, but since it has that name, well, it definitely doesn’t FEEL like a Fantastic Four film. The same goes for how this plot is turning out to be for Doomsday, and sadly Secret Wars (save the ending to Secret Wars because there’s only one concrete outcome there that’s a gimme ending for the writers of the MCU, fortunately for them). So far, aside from the original characters involved, there’s no tie-in to the original Hickman run aside from the word, “incursion”, “Illuminati”, and now New Avengers. Not looking good with tying Post-Endgame events to the original story. If people believe there’s no reasoning to the criticism, then that’s like saying the stories of Marvel lately have had more substance to them than not.
Dragon_yum2025-11-15 00:27
With all the championing this guy does for Marvel you’d think they’d put him in more movies.
phred_6662025-11-15 00:28
I love superhero movies. Loved them before they were popular. Loved comic books as a kid. My biggest gripe (mainly at the MCU) is they introduce new characters (like Shang-Chi) and then either don’t use them again or underutilize them by going huge chunks of time not using them. Some of the titles Marvel have done lately would have been better suited following up already established characters. And don’t get me started on the DC universe (for the most part it’s been crap but James Gunn seems to have it going in the right direction). I honestly don’t have a lot of faith in Kevin Feige anymore. His decision making the last several years has been very questionable.
SnooTomatoes47342025-11-15 00:53
I mean I don’t think ppl are tired of superhero’s and wht they mean. Ppl just tired of the same formula being used. Me personally I can’t get enough of vigilantes but if all there stories end the same then it would get stale.
At the same time I can imagine Disney probably stunts the creative growth of the teams putting a show together. One things tht kills art is to many boundaries because of some morality complex and then corporate rat fucks rushing and fucking ppl over.
Cultural_Comfort58942025-11-15 01:07
Superhero movies have been around since 1939
Movies not labeled that have super hero characters
Arnold, Sly, Statham etc. aren’t really kicking ass 🤣
People are ignorant about reality.
And why would anyone not invested financially care about budgets and how other people spend their money.
Ridiculous.
TheNocturnalAngel2025-11-15 01:48
What’s the deal with every popular opinion being seen as trend chasing now.
A lot of people dislike marvel at the moment because they made a bunch of shitty movies and tv shows.
People aren’t just bandwagoning. They liked it. The quality went down and now they don’t like it anymore.
Oct4Sox22025-11-15 01:51
He still believes in the cheque he will receive
Radical_Ryan2025-11-15 01:55
Fucking A, man.
Koppite932025-11-15 01:58
James Gunn single handedly bro me back from superhero fatigue... Peacemaker and Supes were awesome... MCU hasn't been the same since Endgame so I do understand the general consensus as well
GJH242025-11-15 03:11
Superman restored my faith in comic book films just being fun experiences. I think the internet has been dominated by cynics who think its fun to ruin other people's experiences.
hokagenaruto2025-11-15 04:38
the way people switched up on marvel films is wild. people just jumping on whatever the bandwagon is
FreeStall422025-11-15 05:25
No they just kinda suck now.
Actors are so fucking whiny for how much they get paid.
They can never handle their work just being bad and not deserving the time or money.
If they all get replaced by AI they can be forced to go get a real job.
No more being paid millions of dollars to LARP
J0n__Doe2025-11-15 08:11
I loved superhero/comicbook movies when they were uncool back then, I loved it when they became cool… I’ll still love them when they become uncool again
For a lot of people it’s just a trend huh
IsamuAlvaDyson2025-11-15 12:45
None of the latest Marvel movies have been good
That's the problem
tehlastsith2025-11-15 15:13
Well said. Its in this sub, DCU, all subs really. Its the fad and its sad a lot of fans are so quick to change tunes
MedievZ2025-11-15 17:11
What do they stand for?
starcoder2025-11-16 13:26
I loved Shang-Chi. I was bummed that I was sick when my family went to see it when it came out, and I couldn’t go.
Commentaires
>“It [Doomsday] was really awesome, exciting. So many actors that I grew up watching, and to get to kind of play in that sandbox with them…it’s a dream come true. I grew up watching superhero movies and wanting to believe that the outcasts and the nerds and the weirdos could find it in themselves to have superpowers and save the day. That’s what 12-year-old me clung on to. I still believe, for better or for worse, in the power of what those movies stand for today.”
>Liu hits back at the wave of criticism that’s been hurled at superhero movies. “It’s kind of fashionable now to hate on it. I think there are valid critiques of the way that movies are made, the way that production budgets are handled, I think that there are a lot of valid things to say, but this idea of shitting on superhero movies as a genre, I don’t know. I don’t know I because I am speaking as somebody who just absolutely loved watching them as a kid.”
I do think it’s trends, and not necessarily completely about if the movies are actually good or not from that angle. Just less people care about going to see superhero stuff.
And I think the actually bad superhero movies didn’t help with the overall trend
Also box office isn’t an indication of quality as box office is objective and the latter is subjective, but I do agree that overall it definitely shows a downward trend of interest for superhero movies.
Eternals I kind of like parts of but get why people don't, and think they did a really poor job of integrating it into the MCU's universe or doing what they could have with it.
Haven't seen FF so can't judge it, but it just doesn't look very interesting.
e.g. Antman retcons Pym into being involved in Shield with Stark and Peggy and even Hydra, as a pre-existing superhero who was kept secret, and was a perfect way of retconning into their world. Eternals just mentioned Thor used to run around their ankles in a way which doesn't feel legitimate at all like they really take place in the same universe. Apparently in the comics the Eternals DNA within humanity is the underlying reason for most superhuman abilities being possible, which is a great plot point tying things together which they lost by making the changes that they did.
>high quality film
Hah.
Meanwhile..
>Thor 2
But btw, this is the consequence of a franchise. No one wants to see a franchise stagnate. People want to see change, positive change. This is stagnation and negative change.
Also, nah, people including me were worried that Age of Ultron was an indication of the quality going down for the whole franchise. People were worried in the early days when a really not good movie came out because it could mean the downward decline of the franchise. I actually became more optimistic and when Eternals came out, I held hope lmao. Now we hear people saying The Marvels is peak lmfao. A movie that feels so pooped out and AI generated. At least Thor 2 was just boring at most. Age of Ultron would be peak to you people today.
There's also a lot of junk which became overwhelming, and outright terrible stuff like Secret Invasion, Thor 4, Dr Strange 2, Antman 3, which made me lose interest in the franchise. Fantastic Four is out on streaming and I tried to get excited to watch it, then realized that I just don't care anymore. For all the hype that fans gave Thunderbolts, it was just okay with an unsatisfyingly comical villain.
What do they stand for now… They lost meaning… They used to have so much meaning.
But I do think the general public likes “household” heroes more. The Batman’s and Spider-Man’s as opposed to the lesser known heroes getting their own shows/movies.
That’s why the MCU is getting back into the Avengers titles and bringing guys like RDJ back.
Its dark, funny, goofy, campy, but damn it has heart.
Invincible is based on an even more niche comic book (obviously known to comic book fans but unknown to the general public), yet the show has become a cult classic.
Penguin is a famous Batman villain, but the general public probably associates him more with the DeVito version, and it's unlikely anyone would have thought a project about him would be successful. Yet the series has become a critically acclaimed cult classic.
Creature Commandos is based on completely unknown characters, yet it was highly praised, and some catchphrases and characters have become cult classics (particularly G.I. Robot and its obsession with Nazis).
What do all these projects (which seem a bit too many to be an exception) have in common? They're high-quality and (especially since quality depends on the subjectivity of each individual) captivating, memorable ideas, precisely because they were written with commitment and not as if "OK, we have to put this character/event in this universe, let's write a story around it."
And this is also why Iron Man managed to stand out in a mass of bland superhero movies like Daredevil, Ghost Rider, and that other nonsense, or why Daredevil is still remembered as a cult series while the other Defenders series outside of the fan niche are less well-remembered.
(Of course, the same applies to some stories featuring popular heroes, always crafted with care, passion, and the ability to create instant cult classics, see Spider-Verse or Superman or Logan).
I’m not here to agree or disagree, just trying to clarify what looks like a miscommunication.
Also, David Corenswelt is a less famous actor than Pedro Pascal: according to your reasoning, Fantastic Four should have grossed much more than Superman, yet it didn't. Secret Invasion starred Samuel L. Jackson, one of the most famous actors of all time, but it was a flop hated by those who saw it and failed to enter pop culture at all.
Again, what's the point?
Nobody gives a shit about all these third tier heroes.
No matter how hard they try to convince us that we do.
One thing I don’t think people talk enough about is how the MCU uses A-listers now. The MCU was built on the backs of lesser known actors who basically became their characters. I like Pedro Pascal well enough but he’s in so many things that he just doesn’t feel like Reed Richards the way RDJ felt like Tony Stark.
Dr Strange 2, Thunderbolts, and Fantastic Four are perfect examples.
A reason why The Dark Knight is still considered to be the pinnacle of superhero films is because it’s not focused on being accurate to comics, it’s focused on just being a good film.
If superhero films want to be taken seriously, than they need to follow that same philosophy.
My biggest complaint is the movies no longer function as standalone movies. They’re all just the next chapter in the MCU with no real beginning and end. They just continue the previous movie and set up the next one which leads to a lot of mediocre movies. And it doesn’t help that the MCU has become incredibly formulaic while doing it.
That's something people keep *saying*, but I don't see it. Which recent movie doesn't have its own ending?
It's not that most MCU films don't have a true ending or 3rd act - they do - the problem is that they're just a small chapter before a huge team-up crossover film like the Avengers, and the audience already knows it.
Therefore, the problem is that there aren't really any stakes. There's no tension, because we know that Black Panther or Captain America or whomever is going to survive the story and villain of the month to make it to the next team-up.
What's worse is that the this multiverse has become a cheap trick to bring back characters from the dead so now "no one's ever really gone."
There are a lot of fanboys here who have to defend everything the MCU does.
At the same time I can imagine Disney probably stunts the creative growth of the teams putting a show together. One things tht kills art is to many boundaries because of some morality complex and then corporate rat fucks rushing and fucking ppl over.
Movies not labeled that have super hero characters
Arnold, Sly, Statham etc. aren’t really kicking ass 🤣
People are ignorant about reality.
And why would anyone not invested financially care about budgets and how other people spend their money.
Ridiculous.
A lot of people dislike marvel at the moment because they made a bunch of shitty movies and tv shows.
People aren’t just bandwagoning. They liked it. The quality went down and now they don’t like it anymore.
Actors are so fucking whiny for how much they get paid.
They can never handle their work just being bad and not deserving the time or money.
If they all get replaced by AI they can be forced to go get a real job.
No more being paid millions of dollars to LARP
For a lot of people it’s just a trend huh
That's the problem