The really disappointing thing about the Multiverse Saga is that they didn't set up any big bad for the vast majority of it

The Infinity Saga built it beautifully, phase by phase, Avengers movie by Avengers movie.

It may have been easier, because it was all focused on the Infinity Stones, a perfect plot device to keep the MCU dynamic. But here the movies didn't really have anything in common and overall we only focused on three universes, not much of a Multiverse Saga if you ask me.

They could have planted clues for a big bad at the end, but they didn't even have a plan for someone to step in. Even before they switched Kang with Doom, they didn't set up Kang almost at all, and then the first time we see him is the last.

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impuritor2025-11-14 21:26

Their plans got derailed midway through. Not that big of a deal. Movies set up and deal with villains all the time. It’ll be fine.

BagofBabbish2025-11-14 21:28

“Their plans got derailed” is a lame excuse. If I fucked up on that scale at work I’d be fired.

impuritor2025-11-14 21:29

The actor was indeed fired if that makes you feel better.

BagofBabbish2025-11-14 21:58

He didn’t. He was crisis that was badly managed

EnigmaFrug08172025-11-14 21:29

That’s why they don’t have Kang anymore.

John_Zatanna522025-11-14 21:31

Like I said, they didnt shoot for any star, they just did movies and rolled with it. And while that is a fine approach, it's not really the product you pay for when you go see a Marvel movie

AnonymousFriend802025-11-14 22:08

Have you forgotten Chadwick Boseman?

John_Zatanna522025-11-14 22:41

I don't understand what you're getting at

rasputin12025-11-14 21:30

the person who derailed them was fired...

BagofBabbish2025-11-14 21:57

Kevin Feige wasn’t fired?

rasputin12025-11-14 22:18

Jonathan Majors

BagofBabbish2025-11-14 22:23

Right, it wasn’t his fault.

trashdrive2025-11-14 23:44

Stop talking.

BagofBabbish2025-11-15 00:13

Oh right, the official narrative is always accurate

bjwills72025-11-14 21:44

Jonathan Majors was the big bad and he was involved in a lawsuit. Also there were signs that the plot heavily involved Black Panther and the actor died.

Some things just cant be controlled or predicted.

BagofBabbish2025-11-14 21:57

Jonathan Majors wasn’t the big bad. Kang was. Black Panther did not die, Chadwick Boseman died.

They made a dumb bet on the Rick and Morty writers and got cold feet when Ant-Man wasn’t a massive hit. They’ve also gotten far too invested in the actor over the character, refusing to recast, seemingly being allergic to masks, all the while taking the bizarre stance that you can seamlessly pass the mantle… which is directly at odds with anchoring yourself to specific actors.

This was extremely poorly managed and it’s hard to excuse.

bjwills72025-11-14 23:32

wtf...

impuritor2025-11-14 23:36

Dudes got the hate boner

AnonymousFriend802025-11-14 22:07

Their planned lead, who was beloved by everyone, including everyone from outside the series passed away. COVID devastated not only the Marvel production schedule but everyone else's as well. The actor for the lead villain got caught up in domesticated violence.

Shit happens.

BagofBabbish2025-11-14 22:24

I got dumber reading this vomit of corporate spin

SeekerVash2025-11-15 02:01

>Their planned lead, who was beloved by everyone, including everyone from outside the series passed away.

No she didn't.

>According to Marvel Studios boss Kevin Feige, the upcoming [***Captain Marvel***](https://screenrant.com/tag/captain-marvel/) movie will set up [Brie Larson’s character](https://screenrant.com/captain-marvel-set-visit-report/) as the center of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in Phase 4 and beyond

[Captain Marvel Will Take the Lead of the MCU, Says Kevin Feige](https://screenrant.com/captain-marvel-mcu-leader-kevin-feige/)

If you're talking about Boseman, I agree he would've been a major character. But there was never anything official that he would be a saga lead, it's largely Reddit that convinced itself of that.

Bootytapper4202025-11-14 21:27

Great point. Felt like something big was always coming around the bend. But maybe this new saga has some tricks up its sleeves in regards to how they want you to remember this one?

I’m hoping and waiting. Lol

taviusparadise2025-11-14 21:28

still a way they can salvage. but the multiverse was affected by covid writers strike and the villains private life

John_Zatanna522025-11-14 21:33

They had plenty of opportunities to plant these Kang/Dooms seeds, the Multiverse Saga is five years old, gonna end on seven, they introduced Thanos after four years in a 12 years old saga

AsteroidMike2025-11-14 21:51

Doom seeds would’ve been hard to do because by the time they signed RDJ back on, the projects they could’ve put him in were already finished. They sorta halfheartedly did it with the post-credits scene for Brave New World, but at least did something more solid with Thunderbolts and Fantastic Four.

John_Zatanna522025-11-14 22:40

I know, I said Kang/Doom. And yes, they could have definitely done even more scenes like they did in BNW, just generally vague but still promising stuff and they didnt

taviusparadise2025-11-14 21:56

maybe i am biased. but after watching the entire mcu projects I must say they have had an extraordinary run that is still ongoing. i guestimating run will continue with upcoming projects

Johnny02302025-11-14 21:29

Thanos wasn't prepared very well either, his path was changed many times before Infinity War

John_Zatanna522025-11-14 21:34

But we saw him at least three times before Infinity war and we saw him way earlier than we saw Kang in relativity

Johnny02302025-11-14 21:37

3 times where he constantly changes characterization, with post credits that are often neglected and a second appearance that also shows him as someone who runs away from Ronan

Thanos has become rightfully important and awesome thanks to Infinity War

TylerHyena2025-11-14 21:43

And another thing to take into account: in Infinity War, Thanos himself was the “main character” in a big way, since we had already gotten to know everyone else by this point and so that movie was really his time to shine and learn about what makes him tick. Judging by how Doomsday and Secret Wars are being done by the Russos, I’m confident the former will be Dr. Dooms movie to shine in.

Johnny02302025-11-14 21:45

yes, I also think that Doom will be the protagonist

NateDawg80s2025-11-14 21:52

Thanos was first revealed in the stinger at the end of Avengers (2012), so 4 years into the saga.

Kang, as He Who Remains, was introduced at the end of Loki season 1 (2021), so 2 years into the saga.

John_Zatanna522025-11-14 22:38

I said in relativity. Thanos - 4/11 Kang - 2/6

NateDawg80s2025-11-15 00:36

That's still Thanos - 36.36% into his saga, and Kang - 33.33% into his saga.

Also, I'm not sure 'relativity' is correct to use here, as it refers to either the absence of absolute standards or to particular physical phenomena.

spidervenom6192025-11-14 23:27

Yeah... for a grand total of Drum roll please...... 1 minute and 30 seconds.

TelenorTheGNP2025-11-14 21:30

It's almost like a key player in the whole thing mixed his crazy with someone else's crazy. That resulted in a murky set of abuse charges and a giant mess of PR issues so that the studio got presented with a no-win scenario of how to handle the future of the story line. Now they've had to struggle to right the ship for literally years and it's not what anyone wanted, but it's what we have.

SAM124892025-11-14 21:30

The real big bads were our alternate selves we met along the way

AsteroidMike2025-11-14 21:55

Ah, so you’re telling us there’s variants of us somewhere right now on Reddit?

EddieBlizario2025-11-14 21:30

Let’s wait until the end..
And see how it ties together and sets up the next one,
As that’s really the only valid gauge as so many people have pointed out the advantages of focussing on the infinity stones or Covid affecting things or pivots based on actors actions…

We won’t know how disappointing or disastrous this saga has or hasn’t been until it’s finished

AsteroidMike2025-11-14 21:56

If Doomsday and Secret Wars both stick the landing, which I feel like they will, then the perception of the saga as a whole might improve a bit but still not be seen as good as the Infinity Saga.

Ranos1312025-11-14 21:31

They absolutely did set up a big bad for the vast majority of it. That would be Kang. He was in both seasons of Loki as well as Antman and the Wasp: Quantumania. Yes they should have had him in more movies and may have intended to have him in more before the whole controversy broke.

The issue is that they didn’t do a good job of feeling like the movies and TV shows mattered to each other. The Infinity Saga was set up well because we got Avengers movies at the end of each. They didn’t bother doing that with the Multiverse Saga and so there wasn’t the same interest. They took a formula that worked well through the first three phases and threw it out for this saga.

The fact that Quantumania wasn’t huge hurt their story plans. So rather than recast Kang and try to salvage what they had, they threw it all away.

John_Zatanna522025-11-14 21:36

Yeah the Avengers movies were very absent.

>He was in both seasons of Loki as well as Antman and the Wasp: Quantumania

That wasnt him in Loki but it was a good set up to him, and then the next time we hear from that is two years later. Now, ordinarily two years is a pretty short gap, but Marvel released SO much content in those years

dweeeebus2025-11-14 21:53

[deleted]

eagc72025-11-14 22:06

Yeah, with Kang they tried to make him a more bigger presence than Thanos was. and i do think maybe that could've affected how people saw him because considering they had to beat him (and also He Who Remains) in order to hold him off before Avengers (and now people are going, why should i be scared about a guy who was beaten by a single Avenger and Ant-Man at that, but i believe that was the point, the ponit is no matter how many times you kill Kang........another one will pop out so you'll never be truly be rid of him)

eagc72025-11-14 22:03

I mean lets keep in mind some things, they did too much mostly because the higher ups wanted more content to feed a streaming platform.

Also because the world went to shit and later the film industry went to shit which caused alot of delays they had to play it safe and make them more standalone so they could release these projects in any order, like Multiverse of Madness and No Way Home were gonna be more tightly connected since MoM was meant to release first, thus America Chavez was gonna carry over into NWH, but since Sony wanted NWH in 2021, rather than wait for summer of 2022 to release it, they had to scrap any tie ins between both films, reducing any connection as simply Strange saying this is not his first rodeo with the Multiverse

We even heard that the Moon Knight crew wanted to tie the events of the show with Thor: Love and Thunder and make references to Gorr and the fact someone is killing the gods, but because of the moving slate they didn't knew which one would release first and opted to sever any tie ins to Thor and play it more standalone

Besides i think Marvel now having the luxury of having more content saw this as an opportunity to be able to explore other stories and other characters that weren't part of the main narrative, much like in the comics where we have a big event coming up and some comics tie to the main narrative, meanwhile we have other stories going on that are unaffected by that year big event or are just loosely tied to it.

SeekerVash2025-11-15 02:03

In fairness, they technically could've had a plot twist that revealed that every Phase 4 and 5 villain was a Kang and it would've been plausible.

Ok_Relationship_7052025-11-14 21:33

They tried. Kang was axed. Nobody supported Iron Heart so we probably won't get much Mephisto, etc

NicoleIlieva2025-11-15 00:50

>obody supported Iron Heart so we probably won't get much Mephisto

I was really excited for his appearance, it would be a shame if he didn't get to appear again.

Wakattack002025-11-14 21:34

I’ve been saying it since 2022, the lack of focus is what has derailed the MCU from it’s past place atop cinema and pop culture. Lack of focus on an overall story and a lack of focus on a core group of characters. Nothing else.

Sphezzle2025-11-14 21:37

People drastically overstate how much “setting up” occurred over the Infinity Saga. There was almost none - a handful of vague references designed not to inhibit future projects from making choices down the line. The problem with the MS is that there are too many characters - it’s that simple. It’s no longer the story of a small group of characters. It’s now a series of one-off projects which will have a single team-up at the end. In serial storytelling terms, we’re back to MCU Phase 1.

Aerynsw2025-11-14 21:41

It was literally kang
He was being set up as early as Loki
What are you talking about???

ZardozSama2025-11-14 21:43

They tried to set up Kang. However, that plan went catastrophically wrong between Johnathan Majors becoming a PR Liability, problems caused by doing a lot of CGI then changing what they wanted post render, and not doing enough to connect Kang to the movies during phase 4.

END COMMUNICATION

WallyOShay2025-11-14 21:44

I could care less about the villain build up. You know what bothers me? We have yet to see any major impact on the main MCU from any of these multiverse shenanigans. No incursions. Every movie ended with everything being A OK! At the end excluding the marvels and I guess Dr strange.

dweeeebus2025-11-14 21:48

>the first time we see him is the last

Kang's first appearance was in Loki season 1. Then he was the villain in Quantumania. Then we saw an entire council of Kangs. Then he came back for Loki season 2. Three different Kang variants, if you don't count the entire council we saw. This would have been a great setup if Majors had not gotten fired. He had more screen time than Thanos. And possibly would have had more leading up to Kang Dynasty. But they unfortunately had to switch it up at the last minute. It's not like they could go back and shoehorn Doom into earlier stuff.

BagofBabbish2025-11-14 21:48

They made the mistake of testing to see if these would still be “must watch” event films, after removing connectivity and the long-form narrative. Marvel has always been “mid”, but it was tolerated as a cost of the impressive continuity and narrative that ran fairly seamlessly story-to-story.

For those saying “their plans got derailed” - kang didn’t even show up until 2023. That’s four years after Endgame.

Endgame introduced time travel and the idea of the multiverse. Far From Home teased the multiverse with Mysterio posing as a displaced hero from another world.

Why in gods name did they say “you know what should follow that?” - a Black Widow prequel taking place in 2016.

WandaVision (2021) should’ve made Evan Peters the Fox Quicksilver. First crack in the Multiverse.

Loki reveals Kang (2021).

Shang-Chi (2021) reveal the Ten Ring are extra dimensional.

No Way Home (2021) brings in Tobey and Andrew. Doctor Strange should’ve had a post credit scene teasing he sees the universe breaking.

Multiverse of Madness (2022) - Stephen Strange goes on his adventure because of what happened with Spider-Man. Goes to Wanda because he knows she also encountered a multiversal alien (Evan Peter’s). Have one of the strange variants mention Kang.

Leave Black Panther (2022) as is. Maybe humor the audience with a Shang Chi cameo.

Ant-man (2023) - Kang doesn’t lose but doesn’t (clearly escape). Maybe sacrifice Hank and Janet to allow Scott and Hope to be the messenger.

Guardians (2023). Make the High Evolutionary a Kang variant.

The Marvels (2023). Monica gets sucked into X-Men world because it’s where Evan Peters came from and she got her powers from that same incursion. Cameo from Namour or Shuri.

Deadpool and Wolverine (2024) - Doctor Doom is trapped in the Void. Explains he’s never allowed to exist in the main timeline. Agrees to help with Nova if they set him free.

Cap 4 (2025) - Shuri cameo.

Fantastic Four (2025) - Rama Tutt is the villain. Doctor Doom has a large role.

Avengers 5 you pick if it’s Doomsday or Dynasty.

Avengers 6 Secret Wars.

I’m not calling this perfect, but little tweaks to provide some continuity written by a professional (not me) and you’d have had a solid saga. This is 100% a failure on Feige’s part.

FierceDeity882025-11-14 21:50

It also doesn’t help that Wanda’s “gone” after an awkward heel turn to the dark side and an abrupt death, but not before massacring the Illuminati and then destroying every copy of the Darkhold

Also Strange is off fixing incursions, presumably, and is apparently fine after growing a third eye

These things seemed like big deals in the moment, but do they matter? Who knows? And who will remember that these things happened after 4+ years when they haven’t been mentioned since?

eagc72025-11-14 22:13

To be fair we were meant to have solved the whole Dr. Strange incursion story by now, like Secret Wars should've came out last week, but alas Blade got delayed causing some films to get delayedd and then the strikes happened pushing Secret Wars 2 years later.

FierceDeity882025-11-14 22:19

That explains why we haven’t gotten any follow-ups, but that doesn’t help keep the narrative thread which keeps the overall saga together cohesive

When Shang-Chi came out in 2021, for instance, I was impressed: great new character, great story, and a post credits scene which shows that the Avengers are still talking together discussing potential threats.

4/5 years later…nothing. And I’m sure there are studio reasons for that too, but it doesn’t make the multiverse saga feel any less flat

eagc72025-11-14 22:27

Yeah the thing we tend to forget is that this saga was cursed by delays after delays after delays, which meant potentials sequels had to be put in the backburner for a while since other films they already announced now had to wait longer, like if their planned slate had gone without a hitch, i would believe we would be hearing about stuff like Black Panther 3, Thor 5, Shang-Chi 2, etc coming out in a year or 2, this was meant to be a short saga, it was only meant to run for 4-5 years unlike the Infinity Saga 10 year run, but now thanks to everything that happened in the world its now running for 7-8 years but Marvel is sticking to their announced film slate (with the expection of Blade and Armor Wars) and not adding extra films (unless its Spider-Man given Sony calls the shots here)

FierceDeity882025-11-14 22:46

I really thought in 2021 we were seeing the beginnings of the new team: Scarlet Witch, (new) Captain America, Winter Soldier, (new) Hawkeye, Shang-Chi, and (new) Black Widow

And maybe something with the Eternals, which I actually thought was a really good movie

By that time I didn’t care about Kang. I wanted to know what Shang-Chis rings were about, or what the fallout would be from stopping the Emergence. Those were more interesting overarching stories to me

And I know this isn’t exactly a popular opinion, No Way Home really rubbed me the wrong way, and that feeling got worse with MoM. The multiverse seemed to be primarily used as a vehicle to reintroduce old IPs from franchises that had ended years ago for nostalgia. Not really to set up an actual overarching storyline

Also the plot in NWH was extremely forced and required everyone, mostly Strange, acting remarkably incompetent, which he continues to be in MoM…leaving me to wonder whether Strange is some kind of surprise bad guy that was deliberately sabotaging things across the multiverse for some nefarious purpose, which honestly, I’d get on board with. Supreme Strange in What If was great as an antagonist.

wildeebelmondo2025-11-14 21:53

I know that I am in the minority here, but I love the way the Multiverse Saga has played out. Sure, it has had its missteps and it doesn’t have the critical praise of the Infinity Saga, but I think the different approach has been very refreshing. Honestly, I would have been disappointed if they just would’ve carbon copied the infinity Saga: big baddie is teased early on, slowly build to their appearance and then giant show down at the end. It was perfect with Infinity Saga, but imagine how stale that would get if that becomes the formula of every saga.

With the Multiverse, we have gotten so many stories, offshoots and characters that we never would’ve gotten otherwise. It has even connected all of the old comic book movies that came beforehand and made them cannon. Now all of that will be threatened in Doomsday/Secret Wars. I’m glad they didn’t end up trying to fill Thanos’ shoes with Kang. I think that would’ve been a big mistake. Some of my absolute favorite MCU movies/projects came out of the Multiverse Saga and I honestly think it will be looked back on more fondly as we move forward into the next saga.

eagc72025-11-14 22:11

They tried............it was Kang and his variants, but people hated Ant-Man 3 and the actor got into legal issues, which lead them to scrapping that entire storyline and shift to Doom at the literal last minute that they couldn't push the Avengers films further just to drop last minute films to set up Doom outside of Fantastic Four

Jazzlike_Cat_9952025-11-14 22:39

Think about it that through a lot of the mutiverse saga, Kang was set up as a big bad. Although not the greatest way of dealing with kang, he was taken care of in Loki season 2 and wrote out by a line at the end. After loki season 2, we’re starting to deal with congervences, and that is starting to play out and come to an end with doomsday. If you think about it that way, it’s like 2 parts. Part 1 is over, part 2 plays out in the avengers movies with new big bad after kang.