Avengers: Endgame originally had a more “galactic” version of Black Widow’s death, Jeremy Renner says
“We shot the scene, but that scene is not in the movie,” Jeremy Renner says during a panel at Space Con 2025. “It’s a very different scene. There’s much more galactic and more aliens and there’s a lot more stuff going on. And then we reshot it to make it much simpler to the scene that’s in the movie now.”
“There’s much more emotional, much more impactful, I think. It’s more heartbreaking. It’s heartbreaking to do that scene. It was a celebration also. It’s like saying goodbye to somebody. There was 22 films before this that made this scene happen. I think it’s one of Scarlett’s last scenes anyway. It was a pretty emotional time, a lot of years had gone by, and shared stories, and life shared. It was real enough for us to feel it.”
“There’s much more emotional, much more impactful, I think. It’s more heartbreaking. It’s heartbreaking to do that scene. It was a celebration also. It’s like saying goodbye to somebody. There was 22 films before this that made this scene happen. I think it’s one of Scarlett’s last scenes anyway. It was a pretty emotional time, a lot of years had gone by, and shared stories, and life shared. It was real enough for us to feel it.”
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Edit: If you rather believe unsubstantiated claims, give [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/entertainment/comments/1orpxp8/comment/nns2xxe/?context=3&share_id=vWVGuHVKtRrdOrt9iT5xk&utm_content=1&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1) comment a read - it's gone through things pretty thoroughly. Very easy to just decide Renner is guilty and downvote anyone who dares be reasonable, but it's also plain stupid.
He’s not the first Marvel man to get canceled for horrifically abusive behavior. RDJ, Josh Brolin, Tenoch Huerta, Jonathon Majors, etc. all have some pretty big skeletons in their closet.
It is a deleted scene.
But it is still a very bad and unnecessary scene.
Good call!
Also, I wonder what the explanation was for these aliens showing up?
For all Nat knows, she’s literally leaving Clint up there to be killed by Thanos. The fact he’s going to somehow get the stone is not necessarily going to save him.
It’s so illogical and the proper version was way better.
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>However, Marvel Studios wasn’t sure if the original version of Black Widow’s death was hitting the way it was supposed to, so they rewrote it.
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>“We shot the scene, but that scene is not in the movie,” Hawkeye actor Jeremy Renner says during a panel at Space Con 2025. “It’s a very different scene. There’s much more galactic and more aliens and there’s a lot more stuff going on. And then we reshot it to make it much simpler to the scene that’s in the movie now.”
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>“There’s much more emotional, much more impactful, I think. It’s more heartbreaking. It’s heartbreaking to do that scene. It was a celebration also. It’s like saying goodbye to somebody. There was 22 films before this that made this scene happen. I think it’s one of Scarlett’s last scenes anyway. It was a pretty emotional time, a lot of years had gone by, and shared stories, and life shared. It was real enough for us to feel it.”
But retroactively you look back at a moment like that and realise how forced it was, which is why it's been parodied and criticised since. The same would have happened with the deleted scenes had they remained in the film.
The entire movie is silly. And we all love it. Getting upset about that one shot is the epitome of nerdy whining.
Because it makes no sense narratively. It's Captain fucking Marvel, we've literally just seen her demolish the main ship. She doesn't need any help, the fuck is Mantis or Okoye going to do? The power levels of the female heroes in that scene are so wildly different and we know she can just burst through all of the army anyway.
It's all about the execution. Having all of the female heroes together is a cool idea in concept, but the way it was done rightfully gets criticized because they did the most low effort thing possible without it feeling like a moment of payoff or appreciation in the same way Cap lifting Mjolnir did for example. Instead it felt like checking off a box for pandering and calling it a day, which is a shame because had they done something a bit more natural and clever that scene wouldn't have been ridiculed and likely would have been a standout moment of the movie.
Those characters deserved better than to be awkwardly shoehorned in just because them being there at all is a victory.
Sure the bar is on the floor, but come on.
I'm just saying they shouldn't dismiss people who would have liked more (or conflate them with sexists).
On the other hand, the Endgame ladies didn't really have anything in common by this point. The shot tells us that they're a cool supergroup before we've had an opportunity to decide that for ourselves. Like that Dark Universe group photo.
It might work better if they had previously established relationships in other movies, or at least if it came after an extended sequence of them kicking ass together to show that they've forged a bond worth celebrating with a hero shot. At the same time though, the extended fight sequence would have been more than badass enough on its own.
Endgame’s scene is a bunch of people who have no reason to be there (and for some, reasons to explicitly **_not_** be there) all forming up to I guess support each other with carrying the gauntlet, AFTER we’ve already seen one of the group destroy a flying battlecruiser with her face
If so, no because that actually made sense they weren't posing they were forming up/regrouping. Hulk/Banner had just arrived to join the fight and Stark/Iron Man was leading that big Dragon think towards them. It also fed into the following scene where Captain is giving them orders/positions to take down the Army.
It also didn't take me out of the movie when they had the girl team up in Infinity War because it actually served the story/characters. That was a 3rd act payoff to a 1st act fight (Promixa Midnight vs Wanda).
There's nothing wrong with poses or hero walks if done right. However with Endgame is was done for all the wrong (external) reasons IMO
Says Spider-Man, to Captain Marvel, who just flew through a barrage of mounted laser guns and destroyed the city-sized alien spaceship in seconds.
>“Don’t worry”
Says Wanda, who is showing up here instead of solo-ing Thanos for some reason.
>”She’s got help”
Says Okoye, who has zero superpowers except for an extra strong spear.
And then the poses and then Carol outpaces them all in seconds showing that she did, in fact, not need their help.
It's the execution being highly clumsy and nonsensical that's the problem.
A longer scene without Carol taking center stage might have worked better.
Danvers could fly the gauntlet to the furthest reaches of the universe if she wanted! She had flown *through* the giant space ship like it was a made of tissue paper.
That moment should’ve belonged to any other of the woman heroes, even if Danvers showed up during it to join in.
Oh, I'd say it's pretty obvious why. There were a lot of "convenient" moments throughout the movie, even before the battle. But only one gets hate.
So yeah. It’s sexism full stop
Not that I intend to defend the sexist little scamps that hide behind that reason to excuse their childish attitudes.
Rocket Racoon, Bucky, Korg and Drax teaming up “oh wow love seeing these random combinations of heroes”
Bunch of women do the same thing “ergh they don’t even KNOW each other”
The only thing that truly riles me up is the writers somehow disagreeing with the directors about how the “time travel” works in the movie.
People (read: dorks) just have trouble accepting when anything isn't explicitly and specifically for them.
Really, ALL money shots are "forced". They're all deliberate. It's very clear why THIS one sets them off but not the others.
I have two daughters and I feel like I see this stuff more than normal people. I'm always trying to find positive female/girl superhero content and moments to show them. I grew up with superhero content and it's highly skewed towards boys.
That being said, I'll let my daughters draw their own conclusions about that scene. Maybe it will inspire them, but I have a feeling they would see it as shallow.
Middle of a chaotic battle, and they were suddenly side by side with their helmets down.
It felt unnecessary and obviously pandering.
Screw you Perlmutter!
That was so forced and unnecessary, and kinda blew a dramatic moment in favor of a cheap gag.
Everyone who complains about this scene is doing their best female-repelling force field maneuver. Universally anyone who complains about this scene is pathetic and every woman who’s seen the movie can smell that on you.
I actually liked the scene as well as the other people in the cinema and never felt that it was forced. I was surprised to see so many people mocking it my first thought was that the ones doing it are just being misogynistic.
My issue with it is the whole “she has help” setup. She’s Captain Marvel, and she just destroyed Thanos’ ship like it was nothing. She doesn’t need help. Also, what’s Mantis even going to do? *That’s* why it took me out of the moment, but it didn’t ruin the movie for me or anything. I’m not going to subtract a star from my rating just because the female heroes had team up scene.
The final version was significantly better. Much more impactful and emotional. Really felt like a goodbye to Black Widow
The scene he is talking about is a deleted scene with them getting attacked by Thanos army and Widow using the opportunity to sacrifice herself which was a weaker scene
The original scene does explain why Nebula tries to warn Clint and Nat which now makes no sense with the new reshot scene but that is a small gripe
I wouldn't say it makes no sense. Nebula warning her allies that Thanos is now aware of their mission is something she'd try to do, even if Thanos didn't end up making it to Clint & Natasha later on.
I think it’s very galactic