Black Panther: Wakanda Forever deserved more praise
I was a big fan of Wakanda Forever when it released in 2022. At a time where the MCU felt like it was staggering, I very strongly felt like it was a great new entry into the universe. Why didn’t people favor it as highly?
Elephant in the room, this movie began its presentation in a deficit. The loss of Chadwick Boseman in 2020 was such a massive blow to Marvel, Black Panther, and the world in general. Marvel had to revise their story and come up with an entirely new plot and purpose for the film, with a different character to take the mantle of Black Panther. In my opinion, not only did they make up for that loss with grace and elegance, they excelled and created a phenomenal film from what rightfully should’ve been a scrapped project.
Letitia Wright as Shuri powerfully and emotionally stepped up and into the role as the Black Panther. She took the opportunity as the main character to progress emotionally and physically as a presence on screen.
Angela Bassett as Queen Ramonda displayed an absolute Oscar-worthy performance after the loss of her on-screen son, eventually passing herself in the film in what still felt like such an emotional gut-punch. The scene where they tried to revive her was genuinely crushing.
Lupita Nyong’o and Dana Gurira as Nakia and Okoye both felt like such formidable characters with such importance to the plot and the country of Wakanda.
The addition of Namor and Talokan as a reimagined Atlantis was absolutely INCREDIBLE. They took a tired setting (done onscreen recently by DC) and created an entirely new story and origin for one of Marvels oldest characters and regions. The music and amazing score by Ludwig Göransson (as always) gave Talokan such a strong identity, like Wakanda in the first Black Panther film. The sequence of Namor showing Shuri his home of Talokan was nothing short of beautiful. The first scene with the siren songs and Namor mysteriously taking out a whole helicopter on a stormy night on the ocean was 100% a chilling, goosebump moment. Tenoch Huerta carried himself on screen as a new king in this world of Marvel, and felt every bit as powerful and menacing as Chadwick’s reveal as Black Panther in Civil War. And while they changed Namor’s identity and origin, very true to the comics, he appeared as an anti-hero ruler who only cared about his home and his people.
While the movie felt like an entirely new entry into Marvel and Wakanda, it felt so familiar at the same time, and alot of that feeling comes back to the centrality in themes on the loss of Chadwick Boseman, their Black Panther. Every actor on screen carried and SHOWED that loss in this film. It felt somber as opposed to the previous installment because this country lost its beacon. The emotion and love for Chadwick was so palpable and real that this movie truly felt like it was made as a eulogy for him, while still feeling like a big step was taken in a new direction for the franchise.
The special effects were great, the music was amazing, the acting was raw for most of the main cast, and another rich aspect of Marvel history was brought to the big screen in a new reimagining. I strongly believe that this movie was one of the best ones after Endgame.
The movie isn’t without flaws for at all, I know i have things I can criticize about it, but I feel people tend to lump it in with other bad Marvel entries when it felt so much better and more important than a cast off. What do you think? I’m curious of other people’s thoughts!
Elephant in the room, this movie began its presentation in a deficit. The loss of Chadwick Boseman in 2020 was such a massive blow to Marvel, Black Panther, and the world in general. Marvel had to revise their story and come up with an entirely new plot and purpose for the film, with a different character to take the mantle of Black Panther. In my opinion, not only did they make up for that loss with grace and elegance, they excelled and created a phenomenal film from what rightfully should’ve been a scrapped project.
Letitia Wright as Shuri powerfully and emotionally stepped up and into the role as the Black Panther. She took the opportunity as the main character to progress emotionally and physically as a presence on screen.
Angela Bassett as Queen Ramonda displayed an absolute Oscar-worthy performance after the loss of her on-screen son, eventually passing herself in the film in what still felt like such an emotional gut-punch. The scene where they tried to revive her was genuinely crushing.
Lupita Nyong’o and Dana Gurira as Nakia and Okoye both felt like such formidable characters with such importance to the plot and the country of Wakanda.
The addition of Namor and Talokan as a reimagined Atlantis was absolutely INCREDIBLE. They took a tired setting (done onscreen recently by DC) and created an entirely new story and origin for one of Marvels oldest characters and regions. The music and amazing score by Ludwig Göransson (as always) gave Talokan such a strong identity, like Wakanda in the first Black Panther film. The sequence of Namor showing Shuri his home of Talokan was nothing short of beautiful. The first scene with the siren songs and Namor mysteriously taking out a whole helicopter on a stormy night on the ocean was 100% a chilling, goosebump moment. Tenoch Huerta carried himself on screen as a new king in this world of Marvel, and felt every bit as powerful and menacing as Chadwick’s reveal as Black Panther in Civil War. And while they changed Namor’s identity and origin, very true to the comics, he appeared as an anti-hero ruler who only cared about his home and his people.
While the movie felt like an entirely new entry into Marvel and Wakanda, it felt so familiar at the same time, and alot of that feeling comes back to the centrality in themes on the loss of Chadwick Boseman, their Black Panther. Every actor on screen carried and SHOWED that loss in this film. It felt somber as opposed to the previous installment because this country lost its beacon. The emotion and love for Chadwick was so palpable and real that this movie truly felt like it was made as a eulogy for him, while still feeling like a big step was taken in a new direction for the franchise.
The special effects were great, the music was amazing, the acting was raw for most of the main cast, and another rich aspect of Marvel history was brought to the big screen in a new reimagining. I strongly believe that this movie was one of the best ones after Endgame.
The movie isn’t without flaws for at all, I know i have things I can criticize about it, but I feel people tend to lump it in with other bad Marvel entries when it felt so much better and more important than a cast off. What do you think? I’m curious of other people’s thoughts!
Commentaires
She also is a source of levity in an otherwise somber and serious movie. Essentially filling the role Shuri had in the first movie now that Shuri got promoted to the main lead and is a lot more serious as a character now.
You can show the victim stuff without giving into a major character to take away from other characters who needed that screen time.
She’s pretty vital to the plot.
Have them want shuri to steal form the government. Not take Riri.
Not a big change.
The whole conflict is that Shuri didn’t want to surrender Riri to Namor, especially since Namor wanted to either kill or imprison her. Especially with Riri being just a kid.
It could be a different threat. Namor is going to demolish the east coast if she doesn’t help.
The ways to write it are endless.
Kind of seems like Marvel fans either A) just thought they threw in another superhero for no reason (which I guess is fair) or B) just don't think a movie needs two smart black girls
That being said, I loved the movie. I just recognize it's flaws.
Its just like in the comics where whatever new and popular character is just randomly in someone else's story for a bit, only to get a solo run where those previous adventures get like 5 seconds of reference. I hate when they do it in the comics, I hate it more with the movies. Side stories don't need to be center stage, but her entire intro is in a movie unrelated to her.
It’s like they thought, “hey, we have the predominantly black casted movie, let’s introduce this random black character even if she doesn’t really fit into the plot.”
It wasn't like she just happened to be there and accidentally got involved. Her machine started the sequence of events that became the movie.
If they had connected Riri to the educational program that T’Challa set up in the first movie it would have all tied into the legacy theme that hung over the plot as well. As far as I recall she had nothing to do with that, which felt like a wasted chance to tie her into the existing lore.
She was unnecessary.
Would have been better if the had just kept the conflict between Wakanda and the Atlanteans. Have the vibranium finder be a gift from
T’challa before he died.
Instead of all the bloat about Riri’s hamfisted involvement.
Ok, but they did tie her into existing lore.
The whole reason the Wakandans are defending her is because they made a promise to Killmonger--and the world--that they would act on behalf of the African diaspora. They would defend African descendants across the world, even if they are citizens of other nations.
This decision leads to their conflict with Namor
His original story was supposed to be about T'Challa (who was snapped away by Thanos) lamenting the loss of being away for his son's formative years....and the Namor storyline. Much more focused and personal.
In my opinion, "War Machine: Armor Wars" should have been a pivotal project right after Endgame and Riri should have been introduced there.
The more they delayed it, the less sense had to deal with Tony's death aftermath and that aftermath would be the perfect opportunity to introduce a hero inspired by him.
On it's own, I genuinely think it was incredible.
They paid amazing respects to Chadwick. Shuri’s arc was incredible. Angela Bassett’s acting was unreal. Nakia trying to move on away from Wakanda was really interesting. Namor is my favorite post-Endgame MCU addition and the way they modified his history was done really well. All his action scenes and the Shuri vs Namor fight were standouts.
Rewatching it now is a great experience because I can skip the filler, but it’s a bummer all the filler is there. They should have narrowed the focus and it would be S tier instead of A tier.
Maybe it’s a personal gripe, but I really wasn’t a fan of Shuri becoming the Black Panther. She’s like the “guy in the chair” for BP in the MCU, with little combat experience. It would be like if Ned took up the mantle of Spider-man. Not to mention the actor has had some pretty bad controversies and I just don’t like looking at her face anymore. I was really rooting for either Okoye or holding off on naming a new BP.
Not a huge fan of the Ironheart stuff. Cameos/teasers are fine for introducing new characters, but she had too much of the spotlight in a movie that already had a lot of new information for us to digest.
The real hurdle is that it was hard to be overly enthusiastic when the lead is so off-putting with her crazy real life shit though. Same reason it was hard to be enthusiastic about Wasp, but Quantumania was a misstep across the board.
I don’t think she’s the reason this movie underwhelmed. It was a losing battle and Shuri was never going to be able to bring T’Challa-tier crowds and popularity. I do think they made the right call in building the movie around Chadwick’s death rather than just recasting and acting like nothing happened, but it was always going to be a losing battle.
The trailers were fucking incredible though; tricked me into going to theaters.
They should’ve recasted T’Challa & we would’ve had a better story
They shouldn’t have changed Namor’s backstory & origin
Shuri as Black Panther sucks
While I can appreciate the changes made to Namor and why they made them( and I actually like the character and his scenes) He just doesnt feel like Namor to me, he is like a different character.
It was a powerful tribute to Chadwick, that can’t be denied. And dealing with that grief as a central component of the movie was not only necessary but handled really well. But you could tell they didn’t adjust enough to deal with the reality of that event because Ramonda’s fictional death was horribly undercut by the REAL death of Chadwick and should’ve been cut from the movie.
Sure, you could get into the specifics of “Well, they didn’t have to write the script in a way where they _needed_ to suprise attack Talokan”. And sure, that’s valid. But there is no other way it could’ve happened
Thor the Dark World did a similar concept where Odin wanted to stay in Asgard and wait for the Dark Elves return, and Thor and Loki committed treason to escape Asgard and fight Malekeith on his home turf in a suprise attack.
Once they have Namor, the plan is to cloak and retreat, which, again, they would have successfully done if Namora was unexpectedly strong enough to breach the sonar and destroy it.
I’m not gonna say it’s _all_ people who dislike Wakanda Forever, but a majority just dislike it simply because they didn’t recast T’Challa. I actually created the 5th most controversial post of all time in r/Avengers titled “What’s up with the Wakanda Forever hate?” (Someone was doing a MCU film ranking in that sub, and anytime someone commented Wakanda Forever, it was met with downvotes) and nearly everyone in the replies hated it and was acting like I was crazy. I got close to like 400 replies I think lmfao
I definitely think you're onto something there about the recasting. People also like to complain about Riri in it, and maybe it's just me, but I don't see the issue with that either. I'm not gonna call sexism, but I'm also not dismissing it.
I think a huge issue is that a lot of this new saga came out post COVID which is the "golden age" of monetized outrage and bad faith, internet criticism and a lot of people got their talking points from...less than intellectually honest, less than good faith critics.
Again, like you implied, the movie isnt perfect and not all criticism is baseless. I don't personally think all the Ross/Valentina stuff is tied in as cleanly as it could be, making it a bit more jarring when we check in with them from time to time. But I do think a lot of certain criticisms are parroted in bad faith and if you're around spaces like this enough, you start to see the same ones over and over.
Wakanda Forever was far more poorly written, though. Namor was great, but the film was unfortunately focused on anything else but what was interesting so even the scene where Shuri meets Killmonger, it was just... yeah, it exists
Namor was fantastic and the redeeming factor of this movie.
I don’t understand why they sidelined Nakia when she’s the best actress in the cast and one of the best characters as well.
The plot was a meandering mess.
Tchalla dies out of nowhere like he just returned from thanos’ snap and now you’re telling me he dies from a sudden virus, WHAT?!
Secondly,having queen remonda die after t’challa was not a good move by marvel because we, the audience, had not let go of t’challa’s death yet so we didn’t care much about queen remonda’s death. Also, queen remonda could’ve had a bigger role in the mcu had she not died so early.
Another thing is there is way too many things going on at once. You have shuri learning to become the black panther while also grieving her brother and then her mother’s deaths and then trying to solve the conflict between her people and namor’s people..
It was lacking as a comic book action movie.
Second mistake was making Shuri become the Black Panther. Nakia would have been a more believable and interesting choice. M'Baku as king, Nakia as BP, and Shuri as former royalty leading the science division creates a much more interesting dynamic. Huge missed opportunity for BP3.
If the film had given her a bit more physical presence or training portrayal to make her feel more convincing as the new BP.
Namor was great. Ironheart felt unnecessary and disracted the story.
Too much up-beat BS conversation for no reason, in the middle of people fighting for their lives..
Took me right out of it..
She didn’t fit the movie. Her suit doesn’t fit the aesthetics of the rest of the movie. All the cool Wakanda vs Atlantis storyline beats feel hampered by her being crammed into scenes she has nothing to contribute towards.
Shuri was essentially comic relief in the first movie, which was fine. Moving her into the role of Black Panther after the first one just didn’t make sense. Her character did not process the “royal elegance” that T’Challa had, and essentially it was hard to take her seriously as the Black Panther. It’s like they tried to make another RDJ Iron Man but didn’t do anything to make her unique.
I don’t know, I don’t think she is a bad character but making her Black Panther was probably worst for her character long run. It’s a shame really
I personally really enjoy Captain Marvel.
Not to mention the shape of the body, muscle mass... I'm sorry, but Shuri's actress is just too skinny... It's fine with her being Shuri, but as BP... My God, it's horrible.
It's really just a shitty film
Shuri isn't that interesting, Ironheart was meh, the end fight scene was stupid (let's attack them at sea).
Ramonda was great, Namor was great, Man Ape is always great.
It's a B tier movie that got B tier praise, what's the issue.
I just watched it for Namor. Wasn't satisfying enough with the entire Ironheart story arc.
Great seeing Namor finally in the mcu
4/5 for me.
If the last song was something more memorable & monumental that would’ve won over even more fans but I get the artistry behind the decision. It represents Shuri sitting down to grieve which isn’t pretty with breathtaking lyrics & catchy melody. It’s like weeping and letting the pain sit with you.
Most people can recognize the importance of representation as it relates to The Marvels, She Hulk, and Iron Heart for example. But when it comes to black boys and one of the first and most iconic heroes in our community they want to play dumb. All of a sudden they act like it’s not as important.
I dare anyone to say with a straight face that black boys wanted this character to die. Deep down you know it’s not true. We all know who the loudest voices were in insisting this character had to stay dead. It’s funny how all the talk of target audience and core demographic goes right out the window when it comes to this movie.
They should have recast Chadwick boseman actors or thespians and they live in the spirit of the show must go on. I hate that actors can lock up superhero rolls even after death
"You killed lots of my people, including my mother, but i forgive you. Let's be friends!"
"Alright, let's do that"
Later:
"Bwaha I'm actually still evil"
Like come on guys....
Downvote all you want mfers. You know who you are especially after reading so many of these comments.
Outside of that circle, it’s pretty highly regarded by critics. It has the second most oscar nominations out of any MCU film, and is the only one to get an acting nomination.
Do y’all not like wakanda forever because Chadwick couldn’t reprise his role or is it something else?
Here’s my opinion: loved the movie and I think they did the best they did considering the circumstances of everything that happened. Did it feel rushed yeah sort of but I believe everything worked out.
I wish they did recast but understand why they didn’t. With how negative people are these days whoever got the job would’ve been ridiculed and compared to Boseman. With time hopefully it’s changed