RDJ Doom's should be Doom, not Tony Stark and I despise every theory about it
I'm just so tired of reading about him just being a Tony Stark variant or trying to tie It with Endgame and It's not only a bad idea but It'd be a disaster to the level of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker.
RDJ should be playing Doom, the only Doom: Victor von Doom. If he plays Tony Stark he should play it as another character, not as an antagonist.
I don't want It to be a variant. I don't want It to be an absurd justification to a fanservice that only satisfy the only weird people that were claiming the child from Iron Man 3 should have become the next Iron Man.
I want a cool Doom. I want the characters that they failed to present us not once but twice. I want to see that incredible unique character that is both a genius and a magician, an engineer and a sorcerer, a villain but also the hero of his own history.
It'd have no sense to him not being that. Doom is implied in Fantastic Four: First Steps. We see references to Latveria in the Future Foundation scene. We see that the absence of Latverian representatives affects Sue Storm. We see her reaction. Universe 828 just KNOWS Doctor Doom and they have dealt with him before. This must not be an absurd variant of Tony Stark but the Victor von Doom of an universe that had heavily implied him even before the credit scene.
Everything is wrong with the Tony Stark theories, It's a blatant offense for the sake of good storytelling and it'd literally would be failing us (the fans) again with the most important and deep antagonist of the story of Marvel.
So please... stop with all of that stupidity and all of the insistence around the figure of Tony Stark. Let him fucking rest. Let Doom be Doom.
RDJ should be playing Doom, the only Doom: Victor von Doom. If he plays Tony Stark he should play it as another character, not as an antagonist.
I don't want It to be a variant. I don't want It to be an absurd justification to a fanservice that only satisfy the only weird people that were claiming the child from Iron Man 3 should have become the next Iron Man.
I want a cool Doom. I want the characters that they failed to present us not once but twice. I want to see that incredible unique character that is both a genius and a magician, an engineer and a sorcerer, a villain but also the hero of his own history.
It'd have no sense to him not being that. Doom is implied in Fantastic Four: First Steps. We see references to Latveria in the Future Foundation scene. We see that the absence of Latverian representatives affects Sue Storm. We see her reaction. Universe 828 just KNOWS Doctor Doom and they have dealt with him before. This must not be an absurd variant of Tony Stark but the Victor von Doom of an universe that had heavily implied him even before the credit scene.
Everything is wrong with the Tony Stark theories, It's a blatant offense for the sake of good storytelling and it'd literally would be failing us (the fans) again with the most important and deep antagonist of the story of Marvel.
So please... stop with all of that stupidity and all of the insistence around the figure of Tony Stark. Let him fucking rest. Let Doom be Doom.
Commentaires
It's their job. They are actors, not characters. Jesus christ...
Who gives a fuck about Tony Stark when we are talking about a man that is just THE MAN?
omg I remember this guy from tropic Thunder! (or iron man, for the characters)
The main character of a decade long saga playing another important character in the same universe? Absolutely not okay and there should be an explanation for it.
That being said, he can be an Iron-Man variant and Doom at the same time. If he comes from the Fantastic 4 universe, over there they have no idea who Tony Stark, he's just Victor von Doom. For whatever reason he was born as a nobleman in Latveria and has nothing in common with Stark, except his face and his genius.
1. I hope we see Doom's face the bare minimum because It's out of character for him
2. Doom is deformed
It'd not be the first time an actor get paid a lot of money for a role were they don't have to show their face. See Edward Norton in the Kingdom of Heaven
They didn’t pay $100 million to hide his face.
It was in character for Tony, not for Victor
Reed and Doom's rivalry is probably one of the most iconic rivalries in comics and their face off was the emotional climax or Secret Wars
It's late.. I'm high.. I was giggling when I typed it.
At the end of the day Sersi was not a variant of Minn-erva and Ben Grimm not a variant of Micro
Or the bad guy from Luke Cage and Blade
I’ll be genuinely astounded if there’s no connection between RDJ’s Doom, and his legacy within the MCU. There’s literally like a 5% chance *tops* that this film doesn’t acknowledge the MCU multiverse, or variants in some degree…
*Especially* when Loki, Deadpool & Wolverine, and Spidey variants are practically guaranteed to appear in Secret Wars.
Your examples legitimately just don’t qualify as variants.
And I assume the same will apply to Doom. Same actor different character.
I would honestly be very surprised that Fridge will do anything that risks altering the perfect story arc of Tony Stark.
You realize if RDJ is “the” Doom, we’d only be getting a Doom *variant* in future films, if they ever even use him again?
Besides, why would a variant’s story ruin Tony’s arc?
Whether we ever see Loki again or not (and I’m betting we do between Doomsday & Secret Wars), it’s not like his scene in Endgame “ruined his arc” in Infinity War. Not to even mention his entire show, or Sylvie…
I’d bet an arm and a leg that the RDJ Doom will canonically qualify as a variant of Tony and Doom *both.*
Its like bringing back Gendalf in Two Towers, but no one would recognize him. Weird
My favorite simple theory and Tony's ancestor was latverian heir that fled/abdicated rule. But in another timeline stayed and his familial line stayed in power and led to the generation that would have be an American superhero to be latverian king.
The role of Doom should be more theatrical not only because of Doom character but because of the mask stuff.
The other day I saw an "interview" with Pom Klementieff and It cringed me so hard, she was so disgusted about how they only bringed Mantis and how people ignore her boundaries.
Samuel L. Jackson has also said how annoyed he feels about people only talking about him being Fury.
They are actors. Being another people is LITERALLY their job.
Many people kind of just got off the Marvel train because the journey was over. RDJ gets people back in the game in a way pretty much no one else would have.
But at the end of the day I also believe we're gonna get a council of dooms just like a council of kangs and rdj is playing a doom who just looks like Tony stark and thanks to the power of friendship and nostalgia he's gonna be the doom who has no choice but to "save" the Multiverse from the other "dooms". That's just me tho
Also, these are just theories; not a single one actually affects the likelihood of what route Disney actually go for.
And finally - and I’m sorry because this is always an annoying thing to hear - but you just don’t have to read or engage with any of these theories. You can simply ignore them.
It'd be to the level of SW:TROS
That variant just looks like our Tony Stark
Like how our Steve Rogers looks like Johnny Storm in a different Universe
And if someone recognises It... it'd shouldn't be any character, but Deadpool
Nothing too meta
I predict little to no facial scarring, and Doom having the same crappy CGI helmet effect every boy and his dog has in the MCU.
It’s beyond silly to think they’ll be paying RDJ nearly $100M+, and *not* have him show his face. This is the MCU, not the comics. Thanos had numerous “cameos” and was teased for years. I think the *only* way RDJ’s portrayal of Doom works, is as a variant.
It’d be beyond silly to disregard the entirety of Loki along with Jonathan Majors. He will, almost undoubtedly imo, be a variant.
Having Howard Stark father a bastard with a Latverian gypsy, who just happens to look exactly like Tony, and also being legitimately named Victor Von Doom is both the easiest and smartest way to do it. Having him be “the one true Doom” is inherently shortsighted, because it means we’ll literally never see Doom again in the MCU.
Doom will *inevitably* be recast, especially if we want to see him in a future FF film. But this movie is the literal culmination of the MCU, right before a massive soft-reboot. I legitimately just don’t see how it’s possible that RDJ’s Doom won’t play into the near 20 years of MCU legacy it has to draw on…
It would be like Hooded Justice showing his face because they got Denzel in the role or V unmasking because it was Daniel Craig.
Ironically, knowing what Hooded Justice’s true face looked like was one of the most important elements of the Watchmen tv show. And V’s face adds literally nothing to the story…
Doom shows his face all the fuckin time! And guess what, it’s for shock value! What’s be more shocking to audiences than a fucked up, nose-missing, molten ass RDJ face? You think that’ll have absolutely *zero* in world meaning to our MCU characters???
These movies are meant to cap off the Multiverse Saga. It seems extremely likely there will be *some* sort of multiverse-related rationale as to why Doom is being played by the same guy who played Tony Stark. To not acknowledge it at all would be beyond bizarre IMHO.
I also agree with you that there's a near-zero chance of him not showing his face. You don't pay RDJ a literal dumptruck sum of money to just be a voice actor. Disney is going to demand he show his face so they can use it in the marketing.
but there’s obviously a narrative connection/reason behind him being played by the same actor that played iron man
There’s definitely a deliberate reason it’s him. I’m not saying it’s definitely because he’s a Stark variant or that all the characters are gonna recognize him or something. But there is for a sure a reason that hopefully doesn’t ruin his integrity as Doom.
/s
So they can keep his simultaneous return as an Iron Man variant in the same movie a secret...
Simple wardrobe changes will not satisfy me.
Ngl going from Tony Stark to Victor von Doom is a HUGE promotion
so basically they wont simply say he varient of tony stark but surely people will have confusion but only 4th wall breaker will say those i am sure.
Is that the justification they will use for the RDJ casting?
Dunno.
But it's weird as hell that with all this theorycrafting and complaining about theory crafting people are just ignoring that Doom has an actual power that explains it.
If we suppose that he swap minds and we end having the body of Tony Stark that would be against (kinda) Doom character since he'd despise using the image of someone that he consider inferior to present himself
While he did horrors to his face because he had an small scar, he'd prefer his own face with the mask than to use as a permanent solution Tony's face
At least the character from the comics
And that was within a year of his character's introduction.
You can't get much more classically Doom than that.
So it wouldn't be against the character at all.
Using Tony's body to achieve his goals if a Tony body is needed for his plan is one of the Doomiest things he could possibly Doom.
Nanotyrannus is real now
(This I just made up): After fighting Thanos, Stark realized the Avengers needed better team training, AND variants would be needed after learning about the time travel aspects and Incursions. Hence, the need for Doomsday & Secret Wars.
If they were to remain with Krasinski I'd pick Rainn Wilson
I have little hope MCU is going to turn things around with desperate moves like this, still too focused on casuals.
That’s a good attitude. But when they’ve already allowed Doom to be the worst comic character on screen multiple times in live action, it’s frustrating when they make such a stupid decision. I hope your vision is correct, and RDJ shuts me up, but I have a lot of reservations.
I've hated EVERY TIME they've done this! (Looking at you, old Hank Pym.) I pick up very few Marvel comics these days because of it.
I love rdj nd what he brought to tony stark, still not excited to see him as doom. If doomsday comes around nd he is the real doom I feel like THAT would be a massive missed opportunity, by missing the chance to cast an actor that can make Doom their own nd instead going with an actor that already built an entirely separate legacy. Casting rdj feels like their just dangling keys in front of our faces hoping we’ll buy tickets because “the band’s back together” except the lead bassist is doing vocals nd playing drums now
Regardless, this Doom is absolutely a one-off. RDJ left Tony Stark for a reason, he is not about to make a similar commitment again. Best case scenario is that everything is gonna reboot and we will get a new Doom along with a new cast for many other characters in the MCU.
From the looks of it, the next 2 Avengers movies are gonna be a send off to not only the last 2 decades of the MCU but Marvel Cinema as a whole, and to do it they will be using arguably Marvel’s best villain with one of its biggest stars as the face, and this rep will carry over to the new beginning that the Russos have teased.
The worst they can do is cast RDJ as Doom and make him a Tony Tark variant.
The closest would be Infamous Iron Man (from the comics) but he’s still actually Victor Von Doom where he just assumed the mantle of Iron Man.
But nowhere in the comics is there a Tony/Doom variant. And I see no logical reason for Marvel to create this new version of Tony in the film when there's no comic basis for it.
They had those Ultron bots, but those could’ve just as easily been created by Hank Pym instead, or someone else.
Maybe that’s what makes 616 special. Every other universe got a Doctor Doom, the sacred timeline was curated to make an Iron Man instead.
Dude, stop reading about the movie.
It’s still so far away and there is going to be so much more speculation about it. Nobody knows anything.
Yes. It sucks. But it's inevitable. He *is* Iron Man.
1. 828 Doom simply happens to have a face similar to 616 Tony Stark's. They're not variantes of each other, it's simply how the multiverse works. It doesn't need any more explanation than Chris Evans playing the Human Torch again.
2. RDJ is not 828 Doom's original face, but he changes it for some reason related to his plan. However, RDJ will simply be his main actor going forward. Think of a Tom Cavanagh in The Flash situation.
I hope they pull a fake-me-out and not even reference Tony Satrk at all
But you still want him to be a white guy instead of a Romani.
You don’t want Doom. You want Stark.
However we have what we have and sadly considering what happened with the Maximoff I expect zero consideration with the Rom subtext of Doom which makes me sad.
I mean..... *we've only seen him once so far and he was already showing his face to someone.*
Grow up, it's a comic book movie.
It’s one big final sendoff before the universe gets soft rebooted.
On a meta level, the MCU’s almost 20 year old universe has some cracks in the foundation. They have written out some of the most beloved heroes (Steve + Tony), real life complications have removed others (Chadwick + Jonathan Majors) and icons like X-Men and FF have to awkwardly integrate from other film universes. The multiverse is restrained by confusing and redundant rules, and overall, everything feels very jumbled.
This is one final MCU story. It’s adapting Secret Wars with an MCU spin. This is a way to wipe the slate clean, and basically pick and choose what needs to stay and what needs to go. Marvel can finally have a universe with X-Men, FF, and Avengers all coexisting. They can have a multiverse that is open. They can use old characters, and introduce new ones organically.
So will RDJ stay Doom? No. But he is Doom for this last story. This is not going to be a 1:1 comic accurate Secret Wars. This is the MCU’s version.
For close to 20 years now RDJ has been the face of Iron Man but arguably Marvel (not just MCU). We see him as Iron Man in every opening bumper.
People who know nothing about MCU know that "it's the one with RDJ as the Iron Guy". He is more synonymous than almost any other actor and character. It's like casting Hugh Jackman of all people as Sabertooth. Why?
Every normal movie goer who seeing RDJ in a Doom costume is gonna go "Why is Iron Man evil and green? Is someone using mind control?"
Why yes the character of Doom absolutely should have been able to stand on his own feet, that was out the window the moment they did this awkward pivot to RDJ after the Kang fallout.
It's the Multiverse Saga, they've done nothing but tease variant characters and timelines etc. it would subvert a lot of expectations in a game of thrones finale type way to just not awknowledge what the majorly of their non comic fans will be thinking. Not saying they couldn't do it, an yea maybe pull it off. But that's a big freaking risk with the largest movie franchise ever that already has been showing cracks.
My hope is that RDJ is only playing this variant of Doom that will only be relevent for Doomsday and Secret War, and not THE definitive Doom moving forward. Cause Doom is worthy of.being a recurring antagonistic character like Harry Osborne and Loki were.
-Kang didnt bring any emotional stakes as a villain, at least with what was established. A variant of Tony brings plenty, and will make for some compelling motivations and stakes for the Avengers without needing to lay groundwork for a completely new villain.
-there is nothing tying the characters of the MCU together at the moment. Having to fight a version of their greatest hero is a neat way to do that.
-Disney has a track record of this exact move with Palpatine’s return. This was a complete failure of course, however this time there is SOME groundwork for a variant of Tony appearing with all the multiversal shenanigans we’ve seen so far. If done right, Doom-Tony could even be the culmination of why the multiverse concept was introduced in the first place.
-RDJ’s contract was finished. They could hire literally any other A-list actor to play Doom and it would be cheaper, even Tom Cruise! RDJ has been allowed to set his own price, is probably getting the biggest payday in film history to return. There is desperation at play from Disney, and bringing RDJ back to play a completely different character just doesn’t make sense from a business perspective except for the reasons above.
-The character traits of Iron Man and Dr Doom do have a lot of similarities, and it’s entirely plausible that an egomaniac variant of Tony could go down a different path towards Doom. As others have said, there is enough history in the MCU to even show some alternate versions of events we’ve seen (eg Pepper not surviving, the Avengers dying like Tony saw in his vision). This would also be a neat way of “continuing” the arc we have seen so far in the MCU