Do you think Marvel Studios/Disney did consider at some point giving the post-Endgame characters their own Avengers movie before going full multiverse with Avengers Doomsday/Secret Wars (or Kang Dinasty)?

I always wonder if Marvel did it. And if not, was it only because of the structure of the saga or because a lack of trust in the new heroes' popularity

Commentaires

therealphilbo25302025-10-29 19:32

I assumed they never did one because they wanted to make sure an "Avengers" movie never bombed, so I think its closer to lack of faith on their end.

Excaliburn3d2025-10-29 19:35

Does Thunderbolts count?

Material-Elephant1882025-10-29 19:36

i would say no, because it wasn’t marketed as an “Avengers” film until *after* it released

Theasiuser992025-10-29 19:37

No cause despite the name change after the first week, the movie was promoted and released as Thunderbolts, and it still its official name, so I guess no. It is similar to how they handled Guardians of the Galaxy, their own name their own brand.

therealphilbo25302025-10-29 20:07

I see what you're saying but I don't think so, I think the branding switch was a marketing ploy not just a "New Avengers" movie the whole production cycle. Just my opinion though.

Correct-Chemistry6182025-10-30 09:53

I don't think so. Until two years ago, Marvel was considered (and considered itself) untouchable at the box office. Sure, Eternals and other films didn't do well during COVID, but COVID was in the mix, and you could use that as an excuse.

The bad box office performance of Quantumania was a shock to Feige, a shock that was repeated when The Marvels flopped. Deadpool gave them a false sense of security, but this year's meager box office performance was a real blow.

That's why I doubt your theory: for them, it was a given that any Marvel film featuring a minor character would be a success; it never even crossed their minds that an Avengers movie could flop (while now it may have become a real concern).

therealphilbo25302025-10-30 10:50

I like that viewpoint, do you think it has to do more with trying to do a scatter shot of projects versus trying to stay in a tighter line? I was thinking about how the first three phases kept building to be bigger but stayed in a sort of tight spiral. I think your idea of overconfidence made them spread too thin into solo films and maybe there wasn't a good way to bring them in for an Avengers film.

Correct-Chemistry6182025-10-30 12:21

The problem is that they were convinced they were still in the 2016-2019 era, when the superhero trend was booming and they could release standard action stories with their tried-and-true formula and any character they wanted without worrying about box office returns.

Post-Covid, people want more and are more selective about their moviegoing: they need a film that, whether it's because of its premise, characters, or creatives, is captivating and makes it feel like a must-see.

This is also why Superman performed much better at the box office than this year's three MCU films: from the trailer alone, it looked like an event film, and its quality led to favorable word-of-mouth, which, combined with excellent numbers on HBO Max and digital sales, made it a solid success for the studio. On the contrary, the other three had trailers that made them look like generic MCU films like so many we saw between 2016 and 2019: why should viewers go see them? And I say this regardless of their quality, which ranged from the catastrophic of Chapter 4 to "enjoyable and well-made but average" (at least for me).

This is what they should be thinking about: start making films not because "we need to launch this character/concept into the larger saga, put it in lots of action scenes, and write a standard story around it," but rather create stories that actually engage audiences. If you can do that, you can do it even with minor characters (considering the downsizing that cinema will have to face after COVID: spending $220 million on a film featuring Captain Marvel and the other two whose only appeal is "here's a short, generic adventure for these three girls" makes absolutely no sense), regardless of the impact on the larger story, which is actually a somewhat overrated factor: the general public isn't really interested and will go see the film regardless if they're interested (how many ordinary viewers have seen Superman without even knowing what the DCU is? I've met many personally), while those who research online and know how it works don't have these problems.

juances192025-10-29 19:35

I think there was (and maybe there still is) this misguided idea that each avenger movie had to top the previous one. We went from threats to Earth to a threat to the universe with Thanos, and how do you top endgame and Thanos? with an even bigger threat to the whole multiverse.

Maybe they'll realize that smaller conflicts are ok, we can't keep raising the stakes infinitely.

BlueAnt4562025-10-29 19:44

Ikr, I miss the earth bound movies. We still get ones like Captain America: Brave New World, but it just doesn't feel the same, lmao.

Icybubba2025-10-30 03:28

Thunderbolts

igloooooooo2025-10-29 20:08

Though Joss Whedon didn't really follow through on this, this is what he said after Avengers one was made. When asked how he'd top it in a future sequel, his answer was something like "You don't need to go bigger. It's better to go deeper \[into the characters their relationships/conflicts\]."

Nonadventures2025-10-29 20:12

It’s all late stage capitalism confusing bigger stakes with bigger profits. Even the comics realize you need to take a breath between massive, universe-shattering events or readers get cynical.

SpiritGator2025-10-29 21:07

Counter for you: isn't that what happened? Due to COVID, we didn't get a single thing in 2019. The mistake they made, and it's not really a mistake because 5 of their last 6 movies had made 1 billion dollars, was to try to put everything that would have released in 2019 into the same year as 2020. That, plus the general public/movie critics feeling overwhelmed by both Marvel/Sony/DC coming out with a ton of stuff (if you want to talk superhero fatigue, don't blame Marvel by itself. the casuals don't know the difference between Spider universe and Marvel universe and some of them think Spiderman and the Flash fight in the same universe) during 2020, they were overwhelmed and cried fatigue and fall off.
I'm beating the drum by myself. I'm glad that Phase 4 was used to basically transition after the blip to the new characters. The fact that we didn't get an Avengers is because there wasn't an Avengers level threat to come together for. (My guess is that Avengers 5 would have been hated on because of the new characters anyway so we needed to build them up.)
My conclusion, Marvel didn't fall off, the superhero market brought it down. Yes, Marvel had more TV shows but if "fatiguers" were only watching Marvel instead of feeling like they had to watch "everything" there would be less complaining.
Side note: when people read books (I don't know if anyone reads anymore. That's a separate issue) do they start talking about how they would change how the book goes before talking about changing it? I think of these things as books. We're just now getting to Act III so lets see where we land. They made Infinity War/Endgame work because they thought about Acts I & II (and a banger beginning to Act III, I can't lie).
Side Note II: Most people who make money off the MCU, youtubers & podcasters, didn't really start working the MCU until after Black Panther. You're basically starting at the end and you can watch the other 18 movies in a month and talk about it. But now you have to talk about something every week to keep the podcast going and Marvel tried to accommodate. Unfortunately, these people making money off of this didn't want to work. This was supposed to be fun. Now I'm fatigued.

Nonadventures2025-10-29 22:46

I agree that Marvel isn't the only contributor to superhero fatigue, and honestly I don't even know if it's "Superhero fatigue" as much as a return to normal. Theaters are so expensive and home release is so easy now that people are more likely to watch a high impact novelty like F1 than the latest chapter in a continuing saga that's been primarily on their TV.

I think that means a movie has to be either novel or a big event to get butts in seats now, while the MCU has become more workmanlike. Our Reddit hivemind is super invested at seeing Marvel antics, but Joe Moviegoer isn't engaged in seeing what Bucky Barnes is doing on the big screen these days when the alternative is F1 or dinosaurs.

SpiritGator2025-10-29 22:54

Yeah, I can't really be too mad at the regulars for getting bored with superhero stuff if they're trying to watch everything. I was never into DC or Sony or even the X-Men after days of Future Past. You have to really care to want to keep up. My gripe would be with the people who are saying they want to keep up, getting bogged down. This should be what we want. We're getting fed and if you're full, take a break and come back. You don't need to bring the vibe down by complaining out the door.
Before my second MCU rewatch, I did an arrowverse watch (https://arrowverse.info/) and I started my movie journey in college by watching every movie that was nominated for a big five oscar since I was born (1980). So, I may be the wrong person to talk to about staying with something like this. I've been doing this for 25 years.

tepenrod2025-10-29 20:17

They sort of touch on it with Thunderbolts, but it seems in a post Infinity War world that using the Dark Avengers/the worst people for the job now have it plot line from the comic would have been an interesting angle to follow without making the stakes universe shattering.

DistinctNewspaper7912025-10-30 12:59

I mean kinda thats true.

I can see thousands of posts saying "The danger in X's solo movie was bigger but nobody showed up but this small threat has the entire avengers"

That is an issue with the comic world. There are constant world ending threats but when you have a movie every few month and people don't know what other characthers are doing around that time they will always question it. They should have make the movies happening around the same time most of the time. Like AntMan2 happening at the same time as Infinity War kinda thing.

AgressiveAnalExpert2025-10-29 19:42

Intentions or not it should have been done and was not so it doesn't matter at this point. Could have been a villain they fight while navigating who the new leader of the Avengers should be. Could have been a villain that says they are working on behalf of a greater villain while leaving it vague on who it was in case they wanted/needed to pivot in the event of unforeseen circumstances (Majors getting canned) happening.

JyconX2025-10-29 19:43

Feige said in one interview that he wanted to avoid oversaturating market with Avengers movies, which is why he chose them to act only as saga-enders during the Multiverse Saga.

ubutterscotchpine2025-10-30 01:10

lol and that was absolutely the wrong call. They need to be saga builders to even remotely care about the end product.

Any-Transition952025-10-30 03:47

They most definitely learned their lesson now.

CaptHayfever2025-10-30 03:43

It was also a practical matter of scheduling huge casts.

Bruhimonlyeleven2025-10-30 08:56

More team ups would have been great though. Ragnarok was awesome.

Aromatic-Cupcake48022025-10-30 12:11

He didn’t have to Avengers movies just for team ups. We could’ve easily had Civil War, disguised Avengers movies or even team up movies with 2 characters like Ragnarok.

The universe was established for 11 years, we could’ve had the characters play together in each others projects. Captain Marvel: Secret Invasion was right there, but we’re past that.

comehereyoudevillog2025-10-30 21:05

Seems nicer than saying “nope, no one cared about those characters”

mattsmithreddit2025-10-29 19:56

Yes one of the writers confirmed they were planning an Avengers vs Scarlett Witch Movie but that got scrapped and a lot of the idea were morphed into Dr Strange 2.

Nonadventures2025-10-29 20:17

Makes some sense - Wanda messed with reality fighting the Avengers, which introduces the multiverse in tandem with Loki, which trickles into a NWH with America Chavez having a prominent role. I think that was part of the pre-COVID plan, which got rewritten to swap Spidey and Strange.

rtslac2025-10-29 20:24

I doubt it but they really should have. Instead of getting whatever the fuck the Disney+ show was, Secret Invasion easily could have been an Avengers movie instead.

Any-Transition952025-10-30 03:41

They probably didn't want two Avengers movies being named Secret Invasion and Secret Wars so close to each other.

Plus Secret Invasion premise was bound to fail unless they build up to it by inserting hints of espionage every other project leading up to it. Phase 4&5 are not well planned enough for that.

AsteroidMike2025-10-29 20:40

Part of me feels like they did or were going to but that pesky COVID got in the way and then they also had to deal with Chadwick Boseman’s death. But really at least a few characters should’ve gotten their own flicks sooner and there should’ve been one other Avengers movie in between.

walkinmermaid2025-10-29 20:44

A connected universe was one of the huge things people loved about the MCU. Then post-Endgame, Feige is all like "oh this is a problem". Dude... now we go so many new cool characters introduced and they never got to see the light of the day again. I like the Multiverse saga but it didn't feel like the Multiverse saga at all. Most projects barely touched the theme and they all felt like loose movies. Shang-Chi set up something for the next Avengers = went nowhere. But that's it. It was the only moment I felt like "oh we're back to the bigger story". Nah, never happened.

No development for Captain Marvel as a Captain. The unnecessary Love & Thunder and many other mid-projects. I don't think they considered it but they should have. They had everything to no longer rely on the Avengers being: Steve, Thor, Hulk, Iron Man, Black Widow and Hawkeye and they missed it. They didn't form anything with the introduced characters.

We already had: Captain Marvel, Okoye, The Wasp, Wanda, Valkyrie, Ghost, then were introduced to: Black Panther (Shuri), Yelena, Ms Marvel, Kate Bishop, Monica Rambeau, She-Hulk, Sersi, Thena, Makkari, Ironheart, America Chavez, Agatha, Scarlet Scarab, G'iah, Sue Storm. So many new female characters and guess what: only 4 of them were announced to be on the next Avengers movie.

We didn't have any sequel of anything started on Phase four. We don't see Doctor Strange for years now, it's even funny to think about it. The only characters that had two projects as main characters was Sam Wilson, Bucky, Loki and Yelena. Next would be Spider-Man.

neoshark752025-10-29 22:18

Not really, but... man, we needed some badly before Doomsday. Endgame and Infinity War were so hyped up because we saw the characters we watched grow over the years in one last showdown. These guys? I won't count Thor and Ant-Man because he has had films, but everyone else? We've hardly seen them, Sam's never led a team, Shang-Chi's still waiting on a sequel, no one knows what to do with Carol, Thor and Ant-Man got hit hard by bad movies, and everybody else has also not seen much, as much as we all kinda hate the Kang Dynasty... in retrospect it was probably needed, to actually set-up the New Avengers before... the reset of the MCU.

Excaliburn3d2025-10-29 22:21

Isn’t Doomsday effectively a replacement to Kang Dynasty?

neoshark752025-10-30 20:51

Yes... but, Doomsday meant to be the big finale of the Multiverse Saga, it'd be like if went from Avengers to Endgame

Excaliburn3d2025-10-30 20:53

Isn’t Secret Wars the endgame analogue?

neoshark752025-10-30 23:04

I guess so. But we basically have a bigger-stakes Infinity War/Endgame event, with none of the buildup. Thanos got multiple teases, and Doom got a post-credit tease. We watched the Avengers grow before the final showdown. This will be the new Avengers' first team-up. We've basically assembled the Avengers to be immediately defeated and then reset in Secret Wars.

Excaliburn3d2025-10-30 23:30

My point was that both Kang’s Dynasty and Doomsday would have led into Secret Wars either way.

ArmadilloOk14452025-10-29 23:12

🗣️🗣️🗣️SECRET INVASION SHOULD'VE BEEN AN AVENGERS MOVIE INSTEAD OF A CRAPPY DISNEY+ SHOW

cane-of-doom2025-10-30 00:59

Nope. Feige made it clear they didn't want an Avengers movie that was smaller than Endgame. And I'm still convinced that was their most critical error.

MTM_28146162025-10-31 02:08

I agree it was really surprising to not have an Avengers film announced at the Phase 4 Comic-Con panel. Huge departure.

FaiLclik2025-10-30 04:30

I want to see Shang-chi and Moon Lnight fucking shit!!!

GoldenEagle30002025-10-30 09:17

I think all have their own movie before doomsday/secret wars because I don't think all new/young avengers will survive or have a single chance against Dr Doom except captain marvel, shangchi, thor, moonknight and namor.

To give young avengers a little pre-tribute like something so they have their own movie before doomsday. Most of the young avengers will not survive

comehereyoudevillog2025-10-30 21:04

Hope not