Thoughts on having power-scaled Dark Avengers/New Thunderbolts team go against Dr. Doom in the upcoming Secret Wars Saga?

I want to move past the trope of "big bads" killing established characters in order to prove what a threat they are (love you Thanos - not disrespect intended)

What does everyone think about a morally grey/villainous character (Leader, Valentina, Zemo) putting together a team to confront Dr. Doom simply because he is that big a threat, and having him wipe the floor with them to establish himself as an antagonist who cannot be taken lightly?

Not to say any of these characters won't recover and get payback against DD, I just think it would be a cool etablishing moment to prove he is not to be underestimated.

Commentaires

Myhtological2025-10-25 05:05

I’m serious does the fandom understand the dark avengers at all?

abysmallybored2025-10-25 05:09

They think it's just about edgy characters lmaooo

Longjumping_Hope_1402025-10-25 05:23

I'm so, so sorry my open-ended discussion suggestion does not meet your expectations of lining up with comic-book lore.

Clearly, everything that happens in the comics is far superior to any alternatives. Just look at Black Widow II, High Evolutionary, Killmonger & Shang-Chi as examples of how diverging from the source material creates unmemorable characters.

thatsidewaysdud2025-10-25 06:42

This isn’t even the same idea. The Dark Avenged aren’t just “villains being heroes.”

The Dark Avengers are a team of villains led by Norman Osborn to pose as the real Avengers. This idea would have been perfect in a post-Infinity War world with most heroes missing, and the villains using this as a ploy to gain influence.

Longjumping_Hope_1402025-10-25 07:30

I acknowledged that my interpretation does not line up with comic book lore, and your rebuttal is "this doesn't line up with comic book lore'.

Thunderbolts in comics started off as Baron Zemo leading Goliath/Atlas, Mach-1/Beetle, Meteorite/Moonstone, Songbird/Screaming Mimi, etc FYI.

[deleted]2025-10-25 07:09

[removed]

Longjumping_Hope_1402025-10-25 07:20

Let me know if you need any help figuring out Coinbase.

SlAM1332025-10-25 06:11

I swear every team concept that gets posted here is like:

1. Iron man.
2. Namor
3. Makkarri
4. The Grandmaster
5. Wonder Woman

spidervenom6192025-10-25 14:23

Seriously, they aren't heroes. They are villains pretending to be heroes.

wasted-degrees2025-10-25 05:06

That may or may not be specifically what the Thunderbolts are for. Getting their asses very publicly kicked to establish bad guy street cred, and getting Bob to go to his dark place as a direct consequence, to where you have Doom and Sentinel duking it out and you’re really not sure which one winning would be the worse scenario. And this of course necessitates all of the rest of the new generation/surviving Avengers rallying to handle both of them.

Something like that. There’s a lot of morally grey characters on the table right now to leverage to this effect.

Longjumping_Hope_1402025-10-25 05:25

I like this.

ColorLighter2025-10-25 05:19

so rather than have dr doom kill established characters you want him to kill established characters (evil)?

Longjumping_Hope_1402025-10-25 05:25

When did I say killed? This is literally how I ended my comment:

*"Not to say any of these characters won't recover and get payback against DD, I just think it would be a cool establishing moment to prove he is not to be underestimated."*

ColorLighter2025-10-25 05:31

ok, functionally it’s the same thing though. bad guy fight good guy. bad guy beat good guy. bad guy strong. it doesn’t matter if they live or die cause the core of the interaction is the same. does it really make a difference if after the battle doom runs up to everybody and injects them with fentanyl

Longjumping_Hope_1402025-10-25 05:40

Considering Infinity War killed off the original Loki, Heimdall, original Gamora, original Vision, Black Widow, Iron Man, and sent Captain America into retirement/self-imposed exile, yes, I believe killing off characters vs them getting a beat down is a critical difference in their character arc.

ColorLighter2025-10-25 06:10

ColorLighter2025-10-25 06:16

but that’s not what you were talking about. it makes a difference in their character arc, yeah, but it doesn’t change the trope. in fact most of those deaths are literally a part of the trope that you said you wanted to move away from. what you were suggesting and what thanos literally did are virtually the same thing (literally in the case of hulk at the beginning of infinity war)

if all you’re asking for is a group of villains assembling against a greater threat then that’s fine, but it’s immediately absorbed by the trope of the villain bodying them to prove how tough they are. at that point they just become cannon fodder and anything interesting kinda becomes null and void.

AwarenessOk77482025-10-25 06:17

No, why add another team to an already overloaded saga? It would be more logical to create the Dark Avengers in the X-Men Saga as the antagonists for the Avengers.

Successful-Grand-5492025-10-25 06:32

Just do Avengers vs. X-Men. Job done everyone is included

NotACatWithAccordion2025-10-25 06:39

Who is top left?

Longjumping_Hope_1402025-10-25 07:17

Abomination - now with fins.

Notoriously_So2025-10-25 07:54

It's wild how much they changed the character from how he looks in The Incredible Hulk.

Longjumping_Hope_1402025-10-26 01:36

![gif](giphy|9GMrUGZ8NIpDFS4M5j)

MCU Execs: "You either die a villain or you live long enough to be a hero."

spidervenom6192025-10-25 14:21

WANDA MAXIMOFF AND SENTRY ARENT'S VILLAINS I SWEAR TO ODIN HIMSELF.

Longjumping_Hope_1402025-10-26 01:49

They both committed war crimes and child abuse.

spidervenom6192025-10-26 02:45

So Did Tony Stark, Natasha Romanoff, Yelena Belova, Etc.

Longjumping_Hope_1402025-10-26 03:50

They tried to kill a 15 year old girl and steal her powers to bring dead loved ones back to life, or they trapped a little girl in nightmare hallucination shadow dimension?