How should Marvel Studios have followed Wanda's story if they had decided not to make her a villain in DS:MOM?
After WandaVision I was expecting Wanda to have a better journey when it comes to her next appearences in the MCU. I was disappointed by the sudden change in her character in MOM. I was expecting them to make her one of the main MCU faces in a good way, not a villain.
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Only thing that ever did child reality warpers well was that twilight zone episode.
Boom! Superhero pass!
Also side note, her change isn't sudden at all. She was shown to be using the darkhold at the end of wandavision, so a darker turn was expected for her. Maybe not THAT dark, but she was never going back to being "just an Avenger" after her own story.
If anything, she was possibly set up to be an anti-hero is some cases, but Wanda as a villain isn't that crazy story wise.
Generally speaking it's hard to say where they would take her outside the villain route once they showed us her using the darkhold. Unless she “sensed” billy reviving, that would be the only way it could be a positive route. In which she'd possibly do a rebuilding of the family type story arc with Agatha possibly coming for them as a consistent antagonist.
If they're gonna adapt Doc, as much as I love the actor, he might be recast.
Like, I get the Darkhold corrupted her and she became tempted towards villainy. But we never really saw that, other than the one post credit scene in WandaVision which is so quick and so vague it really could have meant anything. I would have preferred if we saw her wrestle with those temptations or even second guess herself at times or even if she hated what she was doing but the Darkhold was whispering and comforting her. Rather than just have her be the 100% evil bad guy. Lean more towards her being more morally grey.
I think the storyline they had her on, was a good idea. They just rushed it a bit, and they didn’t make her sympathetic enough in DS:MOM in my opinion.
I think this would have helped a lot narratively. My biggest gripe with Wanda 's arc in MoM is that she has little to no agency because of the Darkhold. The Darkhold itself isn't fleshed out very well; as you mention, its tendency to corrupt isn't shown. Therefore, Wanda's "evilness" being tied to the book comes off as inconsistent and splotchy - she murders Kamar-Taj sorcerers without a second thought but then she spares Strange and throws him into an alternate dimension instead of just killing him? It just makes no sense.
I think having her be an ally and then having Strange betray her in some way through having to "be the one to hold the knife" push her to be his adversary would have been far better than having her be a villain from the get go. It would have allowed for us to see her inner turmoil far more effectively.
I also think having America be the one to bring Wanda back from her villainy would have great, but that's another story.
That isn’t how a universe that values continuity should write characters. It’s soap opera stuff from the 90s, like the sudden amnesia trope.
Even Olsen said it. If they wanted her to be a villain next, they should have planned it during WandaVision, not after. Give her a chance to get there through natural character progression. Not a post credit scene shot way later with a made up excuse for a 180 on a character.
Once again keeping needless secrets from MCU actors harmed a project for no reason.
You watched a whole season of a tv show in which the main character holds an entire town hostage, psychologically torturing them by controlling them like puppets and then it ends with her escaping to seclusion with a cursed evil book and you’re like “not enough seeds of villainy for me”
Then the MoM creators realized the show no longer flows into MoM, so they filmed the post credit sequence and slotted it into the show. That 5 second post credit scene is not character progression, it's their attempt at trying to bridge the gaping hole that they've created.
If only she could have slipped in something about enslaving a town and torturing all the residents
Exact opposite of the post's question. Gets voted to #1. wtf.
Wanda wasn't unreasonable, which was closer when she was talking to strange in the beginning. She would have known she would be killing her kids mother in the other world. And her saying "I need her powers in case they ever get sick, there's a cute for everything across the multiverse." Is weird too. Like... There's technology that can send you across the multiverse, stark built It, and they used it to bring her back a few years prior. She could use the tech, and if she is willing to just grab any kids and have them be hers, if her kids got sick and died in another world, she would just go to another world and take those.
It doesn't make sense. I get that it needed to happen for them to make her the villain, it's just lazy writing. I'm getting exhausted with the "this person needs a reason to do this, so let's just make it simple, and fuck anyone thats bothered by how dumb it is" crap writers do, especially in sci Fi and comic books.
It's a notorious trope. Heroes was brutal for It, every CW, DC series was ripe with it. Marvel does it a lot now too.
They'll spend like years building on this sci Fi science, explaining how things work, etc.. and then if they need a round block to fit in a square hole, they'll just use a hammer to get it in. And the fans are just expected to go "ok yup.. that makes sense." And when you complain you inevitably get someone going " lol it's a movie" , " touch grass", or "you really need to go outside if this bothers you lol". But you're allowed to be annoyed by inconsistencies. .
I could maybe buy it if she was to become a "big bad" that slowly becomes unhinged for more reasons than just "I want kids", and over a longer period of media, and then the Avengers have to turn and fight (and even kill) one of their own. That might be interesting. MoM was not.
Obviously not every actor wants to be in it as long as Sam Jackson and RDJ but it's clear that one of the winning pieces in the MCU was the idea that they did take that time to build up a storyline and weave threads over time, much like comics do.
uh... she never really fully recovered from that mental breakdown. Before actually coming to acceptance, she had discovered the shortcut to solve her grief and pursued that instead.
Anyone that truly thinks this needs to go rewatch *Wandavision* and maybe try applying some critical thought and analysis to her actions. She's a villain for half the show...
It’s not that simple as just Wanda is a villain. Wanda’s actions in the show, are not that black or white. It’s full of gradient. She’s a mentally broken individual, who has lost so much. That in order to have any sort of happiness in life, she has to resort to living in a fantasy world. She’s avoiding reality and deep down inside, she knows it. She knows this world is exactly that. It’s a fantasy. It’s not real. And by avoid reality, she is hurting those around her. People she’s not even aware that she’s hurting. That’s what she has to confront.
Wanda is not a villain, in WandaVision. But she’s not a hero either. She’s something in between…..unlike a character like say, Thanos, who is shown as irredeemable and needs to be punished for their crimes. A character like Wanda, does have the capacity for good. She needs rehabilitation, not punishment. She needs therapy. Because she’s not malicious. She’s not evil. She’s broken. She’s hurting.
>And by avoid reality, she is hurting those around her. People she’s not even aware that she’s hurting.
Again, SHE WAS TOLD and she opted to continue. This is villain shit.
This is why, for example, murder is a more serious charge than manslaughter. A person who accidentally hits and kills a pedestrian’s who ran out into traffic with their car, is not the same level of evil as the person who left the house with the intention of driving over someone’s head.
>Hayward: *The missile was just a precaution. You can hardly blame us, Wanda.*
>Wanda: *Oh, I think I can. This will be your only warning. Stay out of my home. You don’t bother me. I won’t bother you.*
>Hayward: *I wish it could be that simple. You’ve taken an entire town hostage.*
>Wanda: *Well, I’m not the one with the guns, Director.*
>Monica: *But you are the one in control.*
Rather than free the hostages, she makes the choice to keep it all up.
>Wanda: *I have what I want and no one will ever take it from me again.*
At this point, she's on her villain arc. She's now accepted her role as a hostage taker.
In ep 3, Vision questions the pregnancy and Wanda reacts to him by breaking the fourth wall and staring at the camera. She later ejects Monica from the hex and becomes aware of the hex perimeter. In ep 4, the local cops claim Westview didn't exist to Monica and Jimmy... next to the sign of Westview... They clearly had their mind wiped to discourage people from exploring Westview. Jimmy explains to Monica his feeling of being discouraged from wanting to enter Westview.
>Monica: So you can’t reach anyone inside and everyone on the outside has some sort of selective amnesia?
>Jimmy: This isn’t a missing person’s case, Captain Rambeau, it’s a missing town. Population 3,892.
>Monica: Why haven’t you gone inside to investigate?
>Jimmy: ‘Cause it doesn’t want me to. You can feel it too, can’t you? Nobody’s supposed to go in.
Wanda is aware she put up the hex even before episode 5.
Not the end of the world you don't need to attack the media literacy of everyone who disagrees with you.
Just pointing out you can just disagree without shovong your head up your ass about it (referring to person I replied to).
If people wanna view her as a villian that is fine and dandy.
Having her show up there, clearly struggling and not well, and Clint referring her on to Dr Strange because he can’t help her due to his lack of magical powers, could work. It would be a nice way to include a bit of her dark side coming in to play, if she then had to help Wong deal with a dimensional breach and found herself in that world and tempted into looking for her kids - that’d be something to work with. She could then ditch Kamar-Taj to go to her cabin in the woods, where her dark arts studies are revealed to the audience.
>!I've never seen that movie and was not referencing it.!<
I can't tell if this is praise, but it seems sarcastic.
I get it's a heel turn, but... you know, let's mix it up.
Boy do I have some news for you about what *all* acting is...
She could have had to deal with the extensive trauma and grief. She could, like many of us, stay true to her morals even though it was hard.
She could have talked with the ghosts and figure out a way to exist in a diminished life that still goes on. Seeking new purpose.
Like lots of us.
But no. Wanda smash!
Bah. Fucking lazy. And insulting.
So after all that shit, they just had her fall to her knees again like everyone else who by the way, arent the scarlet witch and dont have a dedicated chapter about them in the darkhold like she does.
She was set up to be different than the rest and the writer chose to be rid of all that so his cool idea can be made to happen.
I dont know why people find it hard to be honest about this, they can like the movie and the direction they took her, preference isnt the issue but at least be real about it being a backward bending to make something happen
I don’t know if I’d go as far as to say she was a villain in WandaVision, but she definitely wasn’t a hero either.
She knows shes doing this. But she’s not aware of the extent of her powers. She’s still figuring that out. Again, it’s not till the finale where she sees just how this spell works and the damage she’s done with it.
You are in denial. She's confronted with the truth multiple times in the middle of the series...
>She knows shes doing this.
... Yes. she's very aware of what she's doing. She too is in denial and chooses to ignore reality to keep this life she's imagined going...
Agatha even flat out says, “this is magic on autopilot.” Wanda is not conscious of it at all. Did you even watch the show or did you just read the synopsis on Wikipedia?
Like, if Wanda was intentionally doing this as you claim. Then why did the show explicitly have Agatha say she was doing “magic on autopilot”? Can you explain that, or are you just going to dismiss it or not address it because it doesn’t support your argument.
2. You have the unfortunate experience of replying to someone that believed and commented that Tony Stark was the ultimate villain for the MCU, even causing havoc after his death.
not really though. she got away with the awful things she did without even a whiff of consequences. and then, she isolated herself, and tried to handle her trauma by herself.. that doesn't lead to anything good.
what should have happened was monica should've surrendered wanda to the government, where she can then undergo a rehabilitation and get some psychiatric help.
Give the film a different main villain and connect said villain to the Darkhold. When Strange goes to Wanda for help protecting America, it’s revealed the new villian has been subtly manipulating Wanda’s development as the Scarlet Witch via the Darkhold and using her powers to summon/create the monsters hunting America Chavez. From this point forward, the villian will do all the villian things Wanda did in MoM.
At some point in the film (probably the Earth 838 portion) she finds what she’s been searching for: her kids. She’d be tempted to stay there but after realizing they ended up in a loving, stable home she ultimately decides she can’t take that away from them. Instead, she goes off to rescue Strange/America when the new villian launches its attack on the illuminati. Wanda and Strange end up in the incursion destroyed universe when America gets captured in the space between universes.
Ultimately her fate remains the same: at the end of MoM she (seemingly) sacrifices herself to destroy Mt Wundagore and all the Darkholds across the universe.
If you think that's what she is, you COMPLETELY misunderstand the character
They could have shown Supreme Strange from *What If…?* and made a multiversal Avengers show up in the Doctor Strange movie. But all they did is: “I was born to rule the multiverse! No — no, I don't want that stuff; I want my children. They live somewhere in Universe 838; I'm going to kill their mom, replace her, and live there happily. If there is a problem or they get sick, I'll go through the multiverse and get a cure for them.” It’s powerful from a mother’s perspective, but from a story perspective it’s very weak.
i do think that at some point she should've been a villain tho
You kind of see this play out with Bob in the post-credits of Thunderbolts, where he rarely becomes the Sentry because if he's not in full control of his mental state, he risks becoming the Void. When Wanda wasn't in full control of her mental state, she hexed Westview for three weeks. Rather than make the smart decision to go to therapy and be surrounded by friends, she isolates herself with an evil book and, unsurprisingly, decides that a little extra-universal murder might solve her problems. That idea was, as her warped mind saw it, reasonable.
Wanda is more or less a sentient Reality Stone. If she's in full control of her powers and in a good mental state, what villain ever poses a threat? Similarly, we'll see Billy have to self-nerf himself. That boy is going to constantly be questioning what's real because he has the power to create and alter reality without even realizing it. That leads to doubt and paranoia, which leads to fear and lashing out.
So I’m not sure why so much analysis for something that won’t pay off until the X men are integrated into the MCU
She’s always got that potential to come back over to the good side of things but after all that she works better as a character that’s really been through some hella stuff to work her own little private redemption arc like the kind you forever hear about but don’t see on screen .. then maybe she just keeps travelling MCU getting involved with Magics and stuff with Agatha and dr strange and other dimensions
Maybe if I'd watched what if first I would have been able to buy into the concept.
Wanda: Ok sure, that sounds WAY easier than kidnapping someone draining their powers and turning super evil like the book suggested I do.
Stephen: Agreed, and this can be your way out from all the shit you did in that town.
Her consistent tragic life and streak should’ve ended in Wandavision and that that exact background of grief, suffering, depression should’ve been the reason why she is to be the only one whos able to resist the book and use it without getting corrupted
She has a chapter in it, she is also thee scarlet witch. Let the weight and meaning of all of that be put into action. She should’ve even a hero and Strange’s ally. Give her a b plot of resisting the book’s influence, one which she is triumphant against at the end.
Despite Waldron’s decision, marvel themselves initially wanted for her to turn bad at the end and then be an avengers level villain. Either way sucked but at least the original plan would’ve given us a glimpse of what hero wanda would be
Enough with wanting Wandavillain. It’s tiring and uninspired.
For example, her helping Chavez and Strange with good intentions at first but her exploration of the Multiverse and The Dark Hold corrupting her then turns her into a villain.
Wanda's arc is about being at fault for stuff that wasn't majorly her fault. Having WV be about Wanda finally doing something that is fully her own than being someone else would've granted her a lot of weight as a standalone character and start the "solo work" arc that the books have had since the 2010's.
This in WV would've ultimately had a more, idk the word, renaissance period? Of Wanda and Vision doing cute shit together as each episode is a sub story which follows the overarching themes leading to Wanda eventually doing it and failing leading into White Vision, emotionless/memory-less where she failed to bring him back in that way since the flaw in the show would've been ignoring that question.
In MOM that would need horrific changes too but ultimately Wanda was better off not being there.
She’s contrite and penitent, and swears she’ll do the right thing going forward even if she can “never be a hero again”.
Marvel formula where the villain resembles the hero: Nightmare enslaves people mentally and Wanda is the only one who can resist him. He mocks her - saying she did the very thing he’s doing and she loses faith in her powers. Eventually she gathers herself and says her actions weren’t right but she did them out of grief, not perverse pleasure - she triumphs and we forgive her because she’s a fan favourite.
Add in a debuting B-list character who helps her restore her faith, an Agatha hallucination (we need Katherine Hahn) and a Dr Strange cameo - “I know how to beat him, but you’re the one who can beat him”.
Something like that I’d say.
For the Record, pretty much almost all of the MCU current Main characters would have done the same thing that Wanda did once that book was involved, the only people who are immune to it currently are either Dead, A old Man, Sam Wilson, or a Robot.
That said, I think it may have felt more rewarding if she was the villain in MoM the same way that Magneto is the final villain in X2. Have someone else set up the evil plot, only to have Wanda defeat them and take it over.
That said, it was fine. Wanda was just trying to get her family back. I thought it was perfectly in character after WandaVision.