Zombie Strange made a freaking cape out of spirits while controlling the dead body of another version of himself from a different universe—all while being in another universe. It is still crazy for me.
Commentaires
lkangaroo2025-10-11 11:59
With Christine-838 quarterbacking no less
zkandar172025-10-11 13:27
Very cool looking but never really did anything to Wanda😒
gazow2025-10-11 14:58
I liked the zombie cape and the music fight even though they were kinda stupid ideas but maaaan did this movie fall short of the premise of being a multiversal film. Like your big new multiverse is a world nearly identical but with green stop lights. wow......
POCITICIAN2025-10-11 15:57
And not even good looking
FX1142025-10-11 18:06
The music fight bothered me for a moment, but then I remembered how I had complained about the magic often being just glowy punches, and let myself enjoy how goofy and creative it was.
gazow2025-10-11 19:59
yeah kind of a stupid way for sorcerers to fight and especially die , but visually it was cool
FX1142025-10-11 20:30
I want more stuff that bends and warps reality. Infinity War was definitely going in the right direction, and Strange plucking the time stone out of the stars is probably my favorite magic moment in the entire franchise.
SkekJay2025-10-14 01:10
I think it was Danny Elfman's idea and honestly, probably one of the best fights in the MCU if not one of the more memorable ones. It was such a "Shut your brain off and enjoy the movie" moments and those are my favourite moments.
Heisenburgo2025-10-11 18:11
Feigning Feige: "Here's your multiverse film bro, but we only ever explore ONE alternate universe, and the only differences are... green stop lights, convenient memory pads to explain our characters' backstories, some green foliage on skyscrapers, oh and also Professor Xavier is here but this time he has a yellow wheelchair instead of a grey one, pretty cool isn't i-- wait why is our movie underperforming."
Canvaverbalist2025-10-11 18:38
> convenient memory pads to explain our characters' backstories
I will never get over the fact that this was written by a writer from Rick and Morty where that exact scene would have been played as a joke exactly to mock that type of narrative device.
MORTY: "W-w-wait Rick, what's that?"
RICK: "Stay away, Morty, this is a memory pad, it's a device that plays you the most convenient memory for your situation."
MORTY: "I don't know Rick, that-that sounds pretty useful to me."
RICK: "No Morty, only cowards use those, now here Morty help me set up my McGuffin radar."
Originu12025-10-11 22:29
I guess there's only specific people who had the x-gene required to view the secret third universe in the movie, which is where the set piece the post is literally about, took place
Eclipsiical2025-10-11 19:20
The title of the film marketing oversold it as being a Multiverse film, when really it was a Strange vs. Wanda film about the Darkhold with the secondary purpose of teasing what the Multiverse is like and setting up plot relevant terms like Incursions for an Avengers film down the line.
Thomas_JCG2025-10-11 16:20
Great for selling toys, useless in accomplishing anything in the movie.
thrust-johnson2025-10-11 17:04
This movie had problems, it also had a few REALLY cool scenes. This is one of them.
JakeWalker1022025-10-11 17:39
This and the music battle with sinister strange were pretty big highlights in my book
nealesmythe2025-10-11 18:19
The musical battle was cool but reminded me a little bit too much of Kung Fu Hustle
Brimstone7472025-10-11 18:44
You say that as if it's a bad thing.
dragon_bacon2025-10-11 19:02
That's impossible, literally everything on earth would be improved by referencing Kung Fu Hustle.
kevlarus802025-10-12 02:52
Including Kung Fu Hustle. Gets meta.
amodsr2025-10-12 09:48
King fu hustle is always referencing kung fu hustle because every scene in Kung fu hustle is in Kung fu hustle.
neogreenlantern2025-10-11 19:24
I fucking loved that. Magic is best when they get weird with it.
thrust-johnson2025-10-12 22:04
I think about the psychic battles between David and The Shadow King on the Legion tv show. They are battling as pure thought so it gets weird fast-even though it is a serious fight for them. But that weirdness makes sense in context, so it works.
[David vs. Shadow King](https://youtu.be/Gcoz6geWtf4?si=C34iWP_8rC_HfKB0)
I particularly liked the psychic battles that appeared as dance-offs in the astral plane (or the rap battle that one time.)
Nathanielsan2025-10-12 04:03
I was playing Lost Ark around the time and I thought this scene was basically me on my bard.
AUnknownVariable2025-10-12 04:56
That little scene is one of my favorites in the MCU.
I'm a magic "nerd" I guess. I love any and all magic in any form of media and that scene got to show the level of creativity that you can get from nicely done magic, I was so so happy when it happened. It was just so short 💔
ephemeralstitch2025-10-12 07:30
Really reminds me of old Tolkien stuff, where you had a magic fight that was singing of concepts and ideas and scenes. Finrod and Sauron did that. And Tolkien took it from mythologies. They put in a visual aspect for a film but it was really old-school as a thing.
AUnknownVariable2025-10-12 21:21
I need to get into more Tolkien, I wanna get to reading.
The fantasy setting of LoTR was smth I knew I'd love, never really took effort into watching till me and friend watched the extended editions of everything. Kinda hype.
Minus the obvious, what should I read?
ephemeralstitch2025-10-13 03:01
Tolkien, as someone who loves modern fantasy, can be difficult to read. His writing style is definitely archaic compared to current writing, deliberately so. He doesn't have characters so much as archetypes.
That being said, I loved the *Silmarillion* more than *Lord of the Rings* or *The Hobbit*. There's a lot of really sad stories and epic struggles. In particular I love the story of Beren and Luthien. It's one of the best love stories in fiction imo. Beren was a Man, a mortal, and Luthien the fairest and most beautiful of the Elves. They fell in love but when Men die, they pass beyond the world and go 'on'. Elves have to stay in the world until the end of days. But they both pass to the Halls of Mandos before then, and Men only stay a little while. So when Beren died and Luthien found him, she killed herself as well to desperately try and find his spirit before it was gone forever. The song she sung out of grief was so powerful that Mandos (basically Death) was moved for the first and only time in history, and pleaded for her to God. God Himself made Luthien mortal and restored Beren to life so they could spend eternity together. I highly recommend [Luthien's Lament](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F3X5CrPn8I), which is written to be her song to Mandos.
I also love [The Song of Beren and Luthien](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11_aneHVaz8). Those artists really make the stories come alive, and *Clamavi De Profundis* has a bunch of Tolkien songs that are amazing. They take Tolkien's poems and sing them.
*The Silmarillion* is the backstory, it's everything that happens before *Lord of the Rings* and explains what Gandalf is, where all the Elves came from, and Sauron's history. It's written as a legend though, so it can be a little difficult to start with but I recommend sticking with it until you're used to the prose.
Also fun fact, since Tolkien trivia is a tradition: Tolkien considered himself Beren and his wife Luthien. The scene where Beren comes upon Luthien dancing is based on when Tolkien's wife danced for him in a hemlock grove. The names Beren and Luthien are inscribed on their tombstone.
AUnknownVariable2025-10-13 04:16
Thanks so much for the indepth kinda guide😭 It sounds like that's what I'll be reading first to be honest. This was so much better than searching on Google tbh. I'm honestly really excited to get back to reading something, love to read but rarely find the time. I've got some Star Wars Novels to get to as well.
The bit about the characters being him and his wife is so sweet/cool, and I see the tombstones. For a second I forgot Tolkien wasn't alive
ephemeralstitch2025-10-13 04:25
Sadly he is not. Though the silver lining is that we got the LOTR movies, which he might not have approved of.
The thing about the Tolkien legendarium (the term for the whole universe) is that he wrote a ton of notes and letters. For him, it wasn't so much a book as a worldbuilding exercise. He was a linguistics professor so it was mostly an exercise in making a new language (the kinds of Elvish, Sindarin and Quenya) and he kinda just made a world around that. Poetry was another big thing for him (Tolkien did one of the modern translations of *Beowulf*) so there's a number of epic poems written in tetrameter (I think) as well.
Because of that, there are tons of notes and revisions and changes. Complicating this is that every book except *The Hobbit* and *Lord of the Rings* was released after Tolkien passed away. His son, Christopher Tolkien, took his father's notes, edited them, and then compiled them into books. That's why there are inconsistencies.
*The Silmarillion* was the first book that was released after Tolkien's death because it was the most complete, but there are a bunch of others that have come out more recently. *The Children of Hurin* and *Beren and Luthien* are more recent books but all of them expand on *The Silmarillion* so definitely read them first.
If you enjoy reading *The Silmarillion* then you can go full Tolkien nerd and get *The Histories of Middle Earth*. These are Christopher Tolkien's life's work, essentially, and detail Tolkien's notes and how the stories evolved. But those go further and further from actual stories and are more meta, detailing *how* the stories came to be rather than the stories themselves.
AUnknownVariable2025-10-13 04:35
I fear I will indeed like The Similarillion and then I'm gonna have another fantasy type world I'm stuck in😭
That is so fucking fascinating though, I've always known that Tolkien was interesting but I've never bothered to dive into it. Didn't know he was a linguistics professor, that explains a lot. I wish I could just warp a book into my hands rn bc damn this just got me 10x more interested than I already was.
As someone that has never written, but I do like to imagine other worlds in decent depth, the fact so much of his writing were notes and letters as opposed to just writing a straight story is so damn cool to me. Man
ephemeralstitch2025-10-13 04:43
Oh yeah. Tolkien was a linguistics professor who specialised in European mythologies and legends. The Elves have a strong influence from the Fae in Celtic and Gaelic mythology. The Rings of Power and Dwarves are from Norse and Scandinavian mythology. And of course Tolkien's Catholicism pervades the entire thing. The man knew his myths and legends and put them into the work.
The legendarium was his life's work, quite literally. He worked on it his entire life and the vast majority of it was unpublished during his lifetime. For worldbuilding in the kind of depth that Tolkien did, you really don't have anything like it done by a single person. Maybe something like Warhammer 40k or the Star Wars Expanded Universe come close in scope, but most of those don't have constructed languages (conlangs) in them.
For an idea of the depth of just those languages, Tolkien didn't just make up a language. He made several, and then simulated them evolving and drifting over time. He made entire etymologies, the histories of words, based on ancient languages that the Elves would have created which then 'evolved' into the languages that were used in the books. It's incredibly realistic for what languages actually do.
Sohjin_Red2025-10-13 17:21
Second vote for Silmarillion. I wanted to give it a re-read, and came across the audio book voiced by Andy Serkis. That was good fun.
AUnknownVariable2025-10-13 19:34
Bruh I love his voice, I'm gonna have to keep this in mind as well
FX1142025-10-11 18:04
When Raimi cut loose, it was great.
punbasedname2025-10-11 19:47
As much as I enjoyed all of the Raimi flourishes in this movie, and was happy to see him working, part of me really wishes I was just watching a Sam Raimi movie and not a Sam Raimi movie that had to deal with a shit ton of continuity on top of a major studio trying to tell the story in their own house tone.
sadir18142025-10-11 18:38
Honestly, as a pretty big Strange fan (comics) this movie felt the MOST like the comics.. and was better than most of what the MCU has put out for me. Am also a huge Raimi fan too, so that helps.
\*\* Something else of note.. comic fans love this movie more than most moviegoers because of all the Comic references and explanations.. such as you really don't understand The Darkhold if you don't know the comics.. or get things like the "black fingers" reference. Raimi REALLY gave us comic fans a movie FULL of Easter Eggs
SecretWarsIsComing2025-10-11 19:28
Haha think I was thinking my post at the same time you posted, so I missed. But we’re so locked in on the same perspective haha
sadir18142025-10-11 23:44
I actually feel bad for the people who didn't read the comics before seeing this movie and get the same experience I did. Can only imagine how confusing some of it must be.. but the sheer amount of Easter Eggs just jumping off the shelves. it literally takes like 5 times watching it to see em all
Askefyr2025-10-12 11:13
People forget that it's the "mystic" part of the MCU, not the "magic" part. It works well when they get *real* weird with it.
Wesselton30002025-10-11 19:02
Hard agree. If I could re-do this movie, Zombie Strange would stay in
SecretWarsIsComing2025-10-11 19:24
Oddly it’s the movie/show I’ve watched the most since Endgame. In large part because I feel it’s the most connected as a bridge, for all things possible, that upcoming productions could bounce off of. Not to mention comic fan refs — that was only one-upped by DPW (and NWH).
The little that this movie shows multiversal-ly is all banger content IMO.
eriverside2025-10-12 01:24
Agreed. Wandavision is a direct consequence/sequel/spinoff of endgame, and MoM is a direct sequel to wandavision despite the cast.
Everything else since endgame is completely disconnected. Except maybe Eternals.
deemoorah2025-10-12 19:48
>MoM is a direct sequel to wandavision despite the cast.
That is the problem, i want Dr Strange's sequel not wWV continuation
I_am_a_wave2025-10-11 21:51
And one of Dr. Strange must have woken up from this nightmare because he pissed himself
UnderH20giraffe2025-10-12 09:56
I saw no problems, only awesome scenes, but that’s just me
thrust-johnson2025-10-12 14:06
Good!
esmelusina2025-10-12 10:05
It’s a shame that the problems undermine how cool each of the cool moments are.
-XOBTRAF-2025-10-13 12:09
wait which movie is this?
eltrotter2025-10-11 17:13
Shit like this is why I actually really like this film.
JarethCutestoryJuD2025-10-12 22:04
> Shit like this is why I actually really like this film.
Done well, Strange can and should be one of the coolest fucking characters.
ChaoticCaptain1772025-10-11 17:20
The movie has flaws but this scene is pretty cool
Legitimate-Reditor2025-10-11 17:49
Seriously, this was some badass shit
Heisenburgo2025-10-11 18:09
And yet he was still too weak to stop the Scarlet Witch on his own, and she had to do it for him. Weird to define your protagonist by their inaction like that
LikeClockwork862025-10-11 18:33
As a Sam Raimi fan, I enjoyed the everloving fuck out of this movie.
friedpickle_reloaded2025-10-11 19:32
Same. People can whine about the writing all day long (as long as the movie somewhat holds together, I honestly don't care), but I'm so glad they let Raimi cook with the style and tone and didn't water him down.
Bardmedicine2025-10-12 00:39
Me too and ME TOO! It's like a 5-10 MCU for me, which is really high rating since I am a big fan.
I couldn't believe how much Raimi they allowed in the MCU for this.
As soon as they buried his corpse, I was just waiting for Evil Dead Ash... err Strange...
maybe_a_frog2025-10-12 02:54
Wanda getting inside the Kamar Taj temple is genuinely my favorite scene in the movie because it turned into a full on Sam Raimi classic horror movie. Could have fit into a modern Evil Dead movie for a few seconds there and I absolutely loved it. The best parts of that movie are the moments that feel like classic Raimi magic.
sadir18142025-10-11 18:35
and sadly, this isn't even CLOSE to peak Strange
ConfidentInsecurity2025-10-11 18:39
He also stepped on a giant sidewalk button that provides exposition to the audience. Very cool!
StewiesCurbside2025-10-11 18:45
People don’t like this movie, and I understand the flaws, but wow did it have some of the coolest MCU scenes of all time
leuno2025-10-11 18:47
Top 5 MCU moments for sure
Spicy_Weissy2025-10-11 18:56
MoM is dope and I'm not going to pretend it's not.
Antrikshy2025-10-12 02:46
Same. I don't get the haterade that a lot of people here seem to have taken.
Sirocco112025-10-16 17:00
visually its dope, writing sucks imo
overall 6/10
Romoehlio2025-10-11 19:00
It’s not perfect but it goes HARD and that’s why I love it
Four_N_Six2025-10-11 19:11
Genuine question: Would people dislike this as much if it wasn't "Multiverse of Madness?" If they'd gone with a different subtitle and just happened to hop universes a few times, would that have removed the flaws people have with it?
I only ask because I love this movie, but I have a bias toward Strange *and* Sam Raimi, so I concede that my opinion isn't as impartial as some others. But a lot of the time when I see people say it's flawed, the "It wasn't a real multiverse" sentiment is the most common complaint I see.
ipostatrandom2025-10-11 19:21
Remember the amount of predicted cameos before the movie came out only for 99.99% of those to fall through.
Its a decent movie, expectations were just very high due to the title, like you said, on top of following NWH which handled the multiverse beautifully. In a way, it set itself up for disappointment with a title & timing like that.
Personally I was a little more annoyed at having MCU Mordo's villain arc develop entirely off-screen. What even is the weight of him facing alternate Mordo when we never saw him fight the original to begin with.
Four_N_Six2025-10-11 19:39
I remember, but I've been trying to stop judging movies (especially Marvel stuff) based on what I'm expecting or what it *could* have been, and just judging it for what it is. I left Age of Ultron thinking it was terrible because of expectations I had basically made up for myself, but going back and watching it years later, I think it's pretty solid. James Spader alone cranks the rating up a few notches.
I do however completely agree about Mordo. I was really hoping for that to be the next film, but after half handling it in MoM and then bringing in Clea at the end, I'd be surprised if it went that way for a third film. Definitely dropped the ball, and could have just had original Mordo teaming up with Wanda and kept her whole villain story in, as well.
SkekJay2025-10-14 01:08
I think expectations hurt Marvel projects more than we like to admit. Because everyone assumes everything will be a cameo fest and major characters like Mr Fantastic or Beast will be introduced in WandaVision (real theories I remember from when the show was coming out) or that Mephisto will be the big bad of a show where thematically it makes no sense for him to show up and it would it ruin the project, or that Spider-Man will show up in a film where he isn't needed despite the fragile Sony deal. And when our hyper inflated expectations aren't met, we get pissed and assume the project is horrible and the worst thing ever made. Now expectations aren't the only thing that hurts Marvel, quality on stuff like the "They'll never know what you sacrificed" or "Do better senator" or Secret Invasion definitely hurt it just as (if not more) than our expectations.
ipostatrandom2025-10-14 15:13
I say it's a mix of the 2.
I do feel quality has diminished somewhat since Endgame days.
But I also 100% agree people's expectations are too high.
Although for this particular movie I will say, they definately had too little multiverse for a movie with a title like that. Deadpool 3 fit that title much better.
SkekJay2025-10-14 15:42
I agree completely but I also think we compare too much. Not everything that a studio or a creative will put out will be a masterpiece, some things will kinda suck, or not be as good as before. Everyone expects Endgame level quality and when something that is still decent to pretty good gets released, it gets branded as terrible. The Infinity Saga also had some stinkers, people listed Dark World, Age of Ultron, GOTG Vol. 2 and Ant Man and The Wasp as the worst MCU films, so Marvel have always put out dome films which don't match expectations
ipostatrandom2025-10-14 16:23
Gotg vol 2 was not generally branded a stinker? The others are (wether I agree or not).
Just most infinity saga movie quality will do I think. Many recent movies are struggling to do that too though.
And the fact that we the focus is on less bigger names hurts too of course, ppl do miss Iron Man & Cap.
SkekJay2025-10-14 16:44
I remember Vol. 2 not being ranked highly when it first came out, and only really getting appreciated more recently. And I agree on the Iron Man and Cap thing. But I also think it was a great opportunity to give some lesser knowns the spotlight, but I think the quantity of projects made people be a lot more picky with what they watched, also Disney + exclusives didn't help either. And then Covid happened and that screwed up everything. Projects got delayed (Black Widow was meant to come out after Far From Home), others got redone from the ground up (Multiverse of Madness was supposed to have Nightmare as the villain and Wanda turn villain at the end but they switched it round and cut Nightmare entirely) and it was just a headache for everybody.
harbjnger2025-10-11 23:32
IMO the multiverse concept suffered because it came out the same summer as Everything Everywhere All At Once, which is one of the best multiverse stories ever made.
That said, I just thought they tried to do too much and Wanda’s character really suffered for it, which in turn weakened the whole movie since she was the main antagonist. A lot of the recent sequels have this problem, where they can’t seem to just tell a single coherent story with clear characterization. You can feel the shoehorning.
Bardmedicine2025-10-12 00:41
I think the negatives came from two camps. One is the multiverse as you said. They wanted something different. The larger group are the WandaVision fans who thought she was a hero.
Four_N_Six2025-10-12 19:06
I liked WandaVision as well, but I thought it was pretty well telegraphed at the end that she was being corrupted by the Darkhold. So her turn to being a villain makes sense. I thought, at least.
KingShere2025-10-12 00:43
[deleted]
MrCatchTwenty22025-10-12 18:31
What a strange perspective, why would any film maker, especially in a machine as big and controlled as marvel, be intentionally spiting fans?
[deleted]2025-10-12 20:14
[deleted]
OneTwentyOneFunyuns2025-10-12 02:34
The title honestly would’ve made a difference to me. I genuinely enjoyed the movie, but was disappointed because they didn’t deliver on the “madness” of the multiverse. It’s like if you like golden AND regular Oreos, and you buy a regular pack and on the inside they’re golden. Like, I love this, but it’s not what I was specifically promised.
MrCatchTwenty22025-10-12 18:28
Feels like this and a few other marvel movies were let down by the fan sentiment of "this one is actually really secret wars". For a while idk why but everyone expected every solo movie to be secretly the one that starts the next major event, even tho we knew those movies were years and years away.
deemoorah2025-10-12 19:50
My biggest problem with the movie is the title but not the multiverse part, i wanted a dr Strange's movie, not WandaVision sequel and this just pisses me off as a fan.
ReddiTrawler20212025-10-11 19:27
A wonderful stunt to see.
RhytmicCone472025-10-11 19:33
It's funny how one can see the scenes that were directed by Sam Raimi because those are the ones that are good, while the reshoots are notable as well because of the dip in quality
Sega_Genitals2025-10-11 20:07
One of the sickest things in the franchise honestly. So cool. And the fact that the spirits had the Evil Dead Deadite voice too was icing on the cake lol
LegitimateHat44002025-10-11 20:26
This rocked so hard
powerlevelmatters2025-10-11 21:53
Shame, that Strange isn't even that powerful of a magic character. Scarlet, Clea, Voodoo, Doom, and etc. Are all leagues above him in every single way imaginable.
CuriousRelation52025-10-11 23:18
That movie felt like a comic book. Like... A monthly issue. Amazing and weird things happening at such a fast pace that it feels they're telling a four issue story instead of a movie script.
The movie has a lot of problems but when it goes full comic book I just love it
DeuceDropper4202025-10-12 00:02
Wanda snapped Professor Xs neck in her mind while controlling her variant's living body - allwhile in another universe just meditating 🤯
Bardmedicine2025-10-12 00:37
The Darkhold is powerful, yo
TechnologyDeep99812025-10-12 01:07
And it extracts a heavy toll
FireflyArc2025-10-12 05:33
If you told me thar this guy was why and how we got marvel zombies live action. I'd believe you.
Majestic_Lime_11122025-10-12 10:27
remind me what was the hate about? except the fact that they cant move on from end game
Comfortable_Big_79232025-10-12 11:08
It's a really good underrated movie.
KingCodester1112025-10-12 12:17
I enjoyed MoM enough but this will always be the coolest thing from the movie. It’s so badass.
BigShrim2025-10-12 16:16
This right here was the moment that I thought, “Oh yeah. This movie is awesome.”
hercarmstrong2025-10-12 16:34
This movie rules. I waited too long to see it and I loved it from start to finish. 100% Raimi.
GoatDifferent12942025-10-12 18:32
Probably the most underappreciated post Endgame movie. Everyone just whined about how far they expected the “multiverse of madness” title to be literally represented, they didn’t appreciate the movie for what it was.
Nevic19842025-10-12 23:54
I fucking love this movie. I honestly don't get all the criticism for it.
bootyholepopsicle2025-10-13 03:36
This is too 3 best shots of the MCU
Danjeter2025-10-16 01:39
I can’t really say I enjoyed this movie to the fullest. I just wish it had more multiverse in it.
Commentaires
I will never get over the fact that this was written by a writer from Rick and Morty where that exact scene would have been played as a joke exactly to mock that type of narrative device.
MORTY: "W-w-wait Rick, what's that?"
RICK: "Stay away, Morty, this is a memory pad, it's a device that plays you the most convenient memory for your situation."
MORTY: "I don't know Rick, that-that sounds pretty useful to me."
RICK: "No Morty, only cowards use those, now here Morty help me set up my McGuffin radar."
[David vs. Shadow King](https://youtu.be/Gcoz6geWtf4?si=C34iWP_8rC_HfKB0)
[another one.](https://youtu.be/9U5FqvAcj-Q?si=3bC91QX5_W8fI_9z)
I'm a magic "nerd" I guess. I love any and all magic in any form of media and that scene got to show the level of creativity that you can get from nicely done magic, I was so so happy when it happened. It was just so short 💔
The fantasy setting of LoTR was smth I knew I'd love, never really took effort into watching till me and friend watched the extended editions of everything. Kinda hype.
Minus the obvious, what should I read?
That being said, I loved the *Silmarillion* more than *Lord of the Rings* or *The Hobbit*. There's a lot of really sad stories and epic struggles. In particular I love the story of Beren and Luthien. It's one of the best love stories in fiction imo. Beren was a Man, a mortal, and Luthien the fairest and most beautiful of the Elves. They fell in love but when Men die, they pass beyond the world and go 'on'. Elves have to stay in the world until the end of days. But they both pass to the Halls of Mandos before then, and Men only stay a little while. So when Beren died and Luthien found him, she killed herself as well to desperately try and find his spirit before it was gone forever. The song she sung out of grief was so powerful that Mandos (basically Death) was moved for the first and only time in history, and pleaded for her to God. God Himself made Luthien mortal and restored Beren to life so they could spend eternity together. I highly recommend [Luthien's Lament](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F3X5CrPn8I), which is written to be her song to Mandos.
I also love [The Song of Beren and Luthien](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11_aneHVaz8). Those artists really make the stories come alive, and *Clamavi De Profundis* has a bunch of Tolkien songs that are amazing. They take Tolkien's poems and sing them.
*The Silmarillion* is the backstory, it's everything that happens before *Lord of the Rings* and explains what Gandalf is, where all the Elves came from, and Sauron's history. It's written as a legend though, so it can be a little difficult to start with but I recommend sticking with it until you're used to the prose.
Also fun fact, since Tolkien trivia is a tradition: Tolkien considered himself Beren and his wife Luthien. The scene where Beren comes upon Luthien dancing is based on when Tolkien's wife danced for him in a hemlock grove. The names Beren and Luthien are inscribed on their tombstone.
The bit about the characters being him and his wife is so sweet/cool, and I see the tombstones. For a second I forgot Tolkien wasn't alive
The thing about the Tolkien legendarium (the term for the whole universe) is that he wrote a ton of notes and letters. For him, it wasn't so much a book as a worldbuilding exercise. He was a linguistics professor so it was mostly an exercise in making a new language (the kinds of Elvish, Sindarin and Quenya) and he kinda just made a world around that. Poetry was another big thing for him (Tolkien did one of the modern translations of *Beowulf*) so there's a number of epic poems written in tetrameter (I think) as well.
Because of that, there are tons of notes and revisions and changes. Complicating this is that every book except *The Hobbit* and *Lord of the Rings* was released after Tolkien passed away. His son, Christopher Tolkien, took his father's notes, edited them, and then compiled them into books. That's why there are inconsistencies.
*The Silmarillion* was the first book that was released after Tolkien's death because it was the most complete, but there are a bunch of others that have come out more recently. *The Children of Hurin* and *Beren and Luthien* are more recent books but all of them expand on *The Silmarillion* so definitely read them first.
If you enjoy reading *The Silmarillion* then you can go full Tolkien nerd and get *The Histories of Middle Earth*. These are Christopher Tolkien's life's work, essentially, and detail Tolkien's notes and how the stories evolved. But those go further and further from actual stories and are more meta, detailing *how* the stories came to be rather than the stories themselves.
That is so fucking fascinating though, I've always known that Tolkien was interesting but I've never bothered to dive into it. Didn't know he was a linguistics professor, that explains a lot. I wish I could just warp a book into my hands rn bc damn this just got me 10x more interested than I already was.
As someone that has never written, but I do like to imagine other worlds in decent depth, the fact so much of his writing were notes and letters as opposed to just writing a straight story is so damn cool to me. Man
The legendarium was his life's work, quite literally. He worked on it his entire life and the vast majority of it was unpublished during his lifetime. For worldbuilding in the kind of depth that Tolkien did, you really don't have anything like it done by a single person. Maybe something like Warhammer 40k or the Star Wars Expanded Universe come close in scope, but most of those don't have constructed languages (conlangs) in them.
For an idea of the depth of just those languages, Tolkien didn't just make up a language. He made several, and then simulated them evolving and drifting over time. He made entire etymologies, the histories of words, based on ancient languages that the Elves would have created which then 'evolved' into the languages that were used in the books. It's incredibly realistic for what languages actually do.
\*\* Something else of note.. comic fans love this movie more than most moviegoers because of all the Comic references and explanations.. such as you really don't understand The Darkhold if you don't know the comics.. or get things like the "black fingers" reference. Raimi REALLY gave us comic fans a movie FULL of Easter Eggs
The little that this movie shows multiversal-ly is all banger content IMO.
Everything else since endgame is completely disconnected. Except maybe Eternals.
That is the problem, i want Dr Strange's sequel not wWV continuation
Done well, Strange can and should be one of the coolest fucking characters.
I couldn't believe how much Raimi they allowed in the MCU for this.
As soon as they buried his corpse, I was just waiting for Evil Dead Ash... err Strange...
overall 6/10
I only ask because I love this movie, but I have a bias toward Strange *and* Sam Raimi, so I concede that my opinion isn't as impartial as some others. But a lot of the time when I see people say it's flawed, the "It wasn't a real multiverse" sentiment is the most common complaint I see.
Its a decent movie, expectations were just very high due to the title, like you said, on top of following NWH which handled the multiverse beautifully. In a way, it set itself up for disappointment with a title & timing like that.
Personally I was a little more annoyed at having MCU Mordo's villain arc develop entirely off-screen. What even is the weight of him facing alternate Mordo when we never saw him fight the original to begin with.
I do however completely agree about Mordo. I was really hoping for that to be the next film, but after half handling it in MoM and then bringing in Clea at the end, I'd be surprised if it went that way for a third film. Definitely dropped the ball, and could have just had original Mordo teaming up with Wanda and kept her whole villain story in, as well.
I do feel quality has diminished somewhat since Endgame days.
But I also 100% agree people's expectations are too high.
Although for this particular movie I will say, they definately had too little multiverse for a movie with a title like that. Deadpool 3 fit that title much better.
Just most infinity saga movie quality will do I think. Many recent movies are struggling to do that too though.
And the fact that we the focus is on less bigger names hurts too of course, ppl do miss Iron Man & Cap.
That said, I just thought they tried to do too much and Wanda’s character really suffered for it, which in turn weakened the whole movie since she was the main antagonist. A lot of the recent sequels have this problem, where they can’t seem to just tell a single coherent story with clear characterization. You can feel the shoehorning.
The movie has a lot of problems but when it goes full comic book I just love it