Is Nebula considered the most redeemed character in the MCU?
We were introduced to her as this somewhat vile and loathsome backstabbing antagonist in GoTG vol 1.
Fast forward to Vol 3 and she is less hateful but sometimes delightful in her scenes.
Manages to stay in character and has now found a family who she loves and loves her in return equally.
But then again, there's Loki.
I wish MCU made more of these 180 turns on villains.
Would have loved it if someone like Killmonger somehow survived and became one of the good guys.
Fast forward to Vol 3 and she is less hateful but sometimes delightful in her scenes.
Manages to stay in character and has now found a family who she loves and loves her in return equally.
But then again, there's Loki.
I wish MCU made more of these 180 turns on villains.
Would have loved it if someone like Killmonger somehow survived and became one of the good guys.
Commentaires
Nebula wasn’t a big villain. She was always either someone else’s pawn or was just trying to get back at Gamora in petty ways. Her redemption was becoming a hero.
Meanwhile, Loki as a villain:
- Full on tried to take over Asgard and destroy Jotunheim
- Tried to take over Earth
- Got Firgga killed
- Allowed Thor to be enslaved and then tried to betray him again for the millionth time.
His redemption was becoming the God of Stories. As in benevolently making sure all of existence continues on.
Anyone who considers Nebula to be the most redeemed character is just flat out wrong, a troll or just throwing out clickbait.
Edit to add: The number of villain redemption stories is good. We had Loki and Nebula and based on what has been set up, we’re going to get Echo and Namor.
He had redemption #1 when he sacrificed his life in TDW to protect Thor (Tom H has confirmed multiple times Loki didn’t know he would survive the wound from Kurse and so it was a genuine sacrifice)
He had redemption #2 when he returned to help defend Asgard in Ragnarok
and he had redemption #3 when he again sacrificed his life to protect Thor in Infinity War
Pretty sure that still makes him the most redeemed character.
On top of that, we’ve all watched the whole thing and even though they are different characters, they are the same person.
In the movies Loki remains mostly villainous, and his sacrifices to help Thor and Asgard are deeply personal in nature. His principles haven’t changed, he’s still the same tricky bastard as ever, but his experiences with Thor bring out his ever enduring love for his family, which ultimately emerges in desperate moments and drives him to protect them. These sacrifices are both selfish and selfless at the same time.
In the show, what Loki experiences makes it so that he actually develops new principles. he discovers higher, noble ideals and a sense of larger purpose beyond himself. His sacrifice at the end, as I said, is grand scale, made on principle, totally detached and for the greater good, not anything personal.
They started as the same person, but past 2012 they undeniably became two completely different people.
Trying to pretend none of that had an effect on him makes no sense.
Movie Loki:
- Full on tried to take over Asgard and destroy
Jotunheim
- Tried to take over Earth
- Got Firgga killed
- Allowed Thor to be enslaved and then tried to betray him again for the millionth time.
Redeems himself by leading Korg and friends to Asgard to help Thor and then dies trying to protect Thor.
TV show Loki:
- Full on tried to take over Asgard and destroy
Jotunheim
- Tried to take over Earth
- Got to see that he would have gotten Firgga killed
- Got to see that he allowed Thor to be enslaved and then tried to betray him again for the millionth time
- Tried to take over the TVA emotionally hurting multiple people in the process
Redeemed himself by coming to care about the people he had hurt and then saving them. Whatever you may think, Loki didn’t become the God of Stories for the greater good. He did it to save his friends. Yes, in the process of everything he is trying to save all of existence (and succeeds) but that’s secondary to him loving those around him.
Both versions of Loki redeemed themselves through love of people close to them, they just did it in different ways. TV show Loki may not have directly experienced the things movie Loki did, but they still impacted him. Movie Loki’s story is a part of TV show Loki’s story. Just because it’s second hand, that doesn’t change that it still impacted him.
My guess is that you are going to continue to hyper-fixate on the fact they are two different versions of Loki and say something like, “But they were two different Loki’s and TV show Loki didn’t actually experience what movie Loki did.” Or some other argument to that effect.
I’m going to assume that you have experienced empathy and sympathy for another person. Now try to take that same empathy and sympathy but imagine that the person you are feeling it for is an alternate version of you. It’s going to ramp those feelings up because instead of just having and understanding of feelings a similar way, you know exactly how you would feel because that other person is you.
So while TV show Loki may not have actually experienced those things, he is going to feel emotions associated with those events far more acutely than you watching someone else experience something.
You seem to be misunderstanding what *I’m* saying. each version of Loki is redeemed in a completely different way for a completely different reason.
They share similarities in the beginning but by the second or third episode of the TV show, that Loki is on a completely different character arc.
Further, although he saw what his movie counterpart went through, TV Loki never lived through any of that, and the knowledge of it effects him in a different way than living through it effected movie Loki.
By the first few minutes of Thor TDW, movie Loki is on a completely different trajectory. That’s just plain objective reality.
>Loki didn’t become the God of Stories for the greater good. He did it to save his friends. Yes, in the process of everything he is trying to save all of existence (and succeeds) but that’s secondary to him loving those around him.
This isn’t true at all, and you’ve got it completely backwards. Loki learned from his friends and his entire experience at the TVA, and that’s what taught him the higher ideals, but his actual motivation in making his big sacrifice was those ideals and the greater good.
Here’s quotes from Tom H:
“I feel very happy with the narrative conclusion of season 2 . . . purpose is more burden than glory - and Loki's found his purpose after all, which is to commit himself to protecting the lives of others by holding the timelines together."
”But to the point about that last line: one of the things I kept trying to guide our team back to was that the whole series, both seasons, was really about finding purpose, or re-finding, re-defining, re-discovering a sense of purpose. And I think a primal need in all of us, is that we need our lives to mean something. So I kept coming back to this line from The Avengers, ‘I am Loki of Asgard and I am burdened with glorious purpose.’ And we kept thinking, well, if Loki has a second chance, he gets to redefine his purpose or re-imagine it.”
All talk about “purpose” and protecting people and existence *generally*. Nothing said about specific people or specific groups of people.
Loki’s sacrifice and development was about the greater good and preserving freedom for everyone. Not just his friends at the TVA, not for any personal reason, but all of existence. It was a sacrifice made on principle for the heroic ideals he’d developed. He was rising above personal motivation to a higher purpose.
And for your point at the end, again, I’m not saying that video of his family that he watched didn’t affect him, or that his new friends didn’t affect him. I even have another quote from Tom that TV Loki was thinking specifically about Thor and his family in the end:
“Thor is still very much alive in Loki’s mind. . . . Loki knows that his life on the [main] timeline is one where he loses, and he loses his family. Ultimately, he sacrifices himself for his brother. So in trying to find a new meaning, I think part of the drive in his search is that he keeps his family very alive in his mind. I think at the end, he’s thinking of them … close to his heart.”
But just as you asked me to imagine myself in TV Loki’s situation, I’d like you to imagine yourself in movie Loki’s situation. Actually living through all of those experiences is going to end in a different result, and it’s a different result we can *very clearly see* in how different TV Loki and movie Loki turn out in the end.
As I said earlier, movie Loki is maybe an anti-hero at best by the time he dies. The thing that’s so touching about him dying for Thor is that even though he’s still mostly bad and selfish, in the end, Loki’s love for his brother becomes his most defining and heroic moment. It’s an entirely personal sacrifice, which is why I noted that it’s both selfish and selfless at the same time.
TV show Loki develops the higher ideals about protecting freedom and free will. He makes his sacrifice at the end to protect *everyone* in the entire multiverse, not any one specific person or any specific group of people. It’s a sacrifice made on principle for the greater good. Huge difference.
To be fair to him on this one, he absolutely didn't mean to and the very act of getting Frigga killed was basically a punishment he inflicted upon himself. She was everything to him, I doubt there's anybody who hates him more than he hates himself for that.
>Allowed Thor to be enslaved and then tried to betray him again for the millionth time.
The God of Stories Loki never did either of those things. He escaped custody in the aftermath of the Battle of New York and then started fighting the TVA.
And I would argue Nebula was way more thoroughly redeemed. Loki still sees himself as the villain trying to do better, while Nebula has had three full movies and a few other appearances with her fully hero rather than brooding antihero verging on reluctant hero.
with what’s in the script and Tom’s acting, there’s kinda the sense that Loki impulsively decided “well fine….if you say we’re destined to go down separate paths…I’ll make sure you’re stuck with me on Sakaar forever”
She was living and working on in Sakaar when she captured Thor. What she’s did wasn’t cool but it wasn’t treason in the least.
Just because she was born Asgardian doesn’t in any way indicate that she was any longer an Asgardian citizen. She had been away from Asgard longer than Thor had been alive.
Also, she wasn’t just any Asgardian, she was a Valkyrie, a high-ranking military official. her harming a prince of Asgard would be even more treasonous than a regular Asgardian
You clearly don’t know what a military official is be she of all people definitely wasn’t one of them. There was absolutely nothing to indicate that she held any kind of military authority or rank. She was simply one member of a special team. So what?
As for “Asgard isn’t a place, it’s a people” congratulations, you proved my point. Since Asgard isn’t a place it can’t have laws that people would be subject to. Not that she would be subject to them anymore anyway because she hadn’t lived there for thousands of years.
And “Asgard isn’t a place it’s a people” means you’re always Asgardian no matter where you go in your life, no matter how far you’re physically away from Asgard you are always part of the tribe lol…..Asgard was destroyed by Ragnarok but all the Asgardians are still Asgardians…….it proves *my* point not yours….come on now….
Life's tough in the wild wild cosmos, it's an eat or be eaten world and space pirates be space piratin'. They turned their lives around and are doing good in the world now, it's better than an apology. Actions over words.
Valkyrie was a resident of Sakaar when she captured Thor. That was her home, not Asgard. She couldn’t have been committing treason because she wasn’t subject to Asgard’s laws.
Sheesh, no need to be so bloody harsh. You made your case.
I would probably agree it's Loki. Though it is a tricky one, since the one who was more redeemed didn't actually do some of that stuff. That said, some of the worst, most deadly acts were still committed by this Loki before the timeline split.
Truly Darren Cross is our most redeemed character.
Lol
I don't know why this is hard for people to understand.
Bucky feels a tremendous amount of guilt because he remembers the things that happened while he was controlled by Hydra. But he never chose any of it and doesn't have any actual responsibility for anything The Winter Soldier did.
He didn't need redemption because he never did anything wrong.
When he wasn't literally mind controlled, he never hurt *anyone* except in defense of himself or others.
By guardians 3 they are basically the head of an entire planet, well respected, and unambiguously heros of the galaxy.
Plus they throw a mean Christmas party. Even if it had a vile Actor there