Do you think that the Avengers found out that Coulson was alive since Black Widow leaked all of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s files (including T.A.H.I.T.I.) to the world?
I think that it's possible, but they were really preoccupied so they might have not.
Commentaires
DigificWriter2025-10-08 04:45
No, because Agents of SHIELD doesn't take place on the Sacred Timeline.
marvelcomics222025-10-08 04:48
Feige said that it was a part of the MCU back in the day, and never walked back on those claims. The fans are the only people who raise questions. Also, until someone says otherwise, AoS is 100% canon.
Edit: Oh no, not u/DigificWriter again.
Morgoth18142025-10-08 04:49
Yup I agree. I’ll keep calling it canon until it’s confirmed it’s not.
marvelcomics222025-10-08 04:52
I don't even know why it's a discussion, there's nothing to suggest that it isn't canon, aside from a few 'How did they never mention that?' which can be explained really easily if you think about it.
DigificWriter2025-10-08 04:56
"there's nothing to suggest that it isn't canon"
You'd be right if it weren't for the existence of Mobius and 2012 Loki's conversation in Loki Episode 1.
d-o_oI2025-10-08 07:59
[removed]
CaptHayfever2025-10-08 16:49
Except it's not theoretical. There's a concrete answer to OP's original question: The Guest House was not in SHIELD's files. They say that directly in the show. There's no reason to argue about canon here other than to make people upset.
Hyperbolicalpaca2025-10-08 08:18
> there's nothing to suggest that it isn't canon
Other than the fact that it isn’t on the official disney plus timeline, along with agent carter and inhumans, while the Netflix shows all are, and the fact that it isn’t in the official sacred timeline book
DigificWriter2025-10-08 04:53
Then you have to stop considering it Canon because it absolutely has been confirmed as currently Non-Canonical.
Meanwhile, I'll rely on the facts as they exist currently.
YourInMySwamp2025-10-08 05:52
Here’s the facts:
* the show doesn’t even mention the Snap from Infinity War… directly after it took place. That makes no sense.
* the show has an alternate version of the Darkhold than the one which we know is canon to the MCU
* [Chloe Bennet herself said the series is not canon](https://www.thepopverse.com/tv-marvel-studios-agents-of-shield-canon-chloe-bennet?utm_source=chatgpt.com)
* in the series they re-establish SHIELD as a legitimate government organization, yet it remains a dead organization in the movies
* the rules of time travel work completely different between AoS and Endgame
* times where Fury appears in the series are times where he is *confirmed* to have been in space according to the movies
The most realistic explanation is that only the first 4 seasons are canon, and the time travel shenanigans in S5 led to a branched universe. It completely stops making sense and connecting with the MCU after that
JesterMarcus2025-10-08 05:01
As somebody who didn't watch it and has no dog in this fight, how so?
DigificWriter2025-10-08 05:07
As per Loki, Coulson died in 2012 and stayed dead, thus invalidating the entire premise and setup upon which Agents of SHIELD is predicated.
Furthermore, the series does not appear anywhere on any official Timelines for the MCU, and Brad Winderbaum, current Head of Marvel Television, made comments about wanting to "square those ABC shows (AoS and Agent Carter) with the Canon".
Doctor714002025-10-08 05:11
Mobius said he died, yes. But he didn't need to say that he was brought back to life
DigificWriter2025-10-08 05:13
The copium is strong with this post.
d-o_oI2025-10-08 08:10
He would've if he was, given the scene was him taunting Loki for losing… would've been the perfect spot to clap back for it.
> **MOBIUS:** It’s funny, for someone born to rule, you sure do lose a lot. You might even say it’s in your nature.
**LOKI:** You know, things didn’t turn out so well for the last person who said that to me.
**MOBIUS:** Oh, yeah, Phil Coulson.
(Plays footage of Coulson's death)
**MOBIUS:** Didn’t the Avengers come together to literally avenge him by defeating you?
**LOKI:** Little solace to a _dead man._
Loki would've had no answer if Mobius simply said *"Well he didn't stay dead"*… the ultimate answer if Mobius could prove his threats were toothless.
JesterMarcus2025-10-08 05:17
Why would Loki from right then know any different? This Loki is mere hours from that event. No joke, this is the worst bit of evidence presented.
I don't really care what promotional documents say or don't say. Those are marketing documents, not much more. That's just me. Until it shows up in a show or movie, I don't care what producers, directors, actors, documents or whatever say. Those things change once another person steps in. What's on the screen is more important.
What he said doesn’t mean they aren't canon, just that they are still working it out.
d-o_oI2025-10-08 08:16
> Why would Loki from right then know any different?
/u/DigificWriter is talking about Loki the show, not the character. The show tells us he died and makes no mention of his resurrection, despite having a clear opportunity to do so.
GarySoneji2025-10-08 05:21
If it were canon, it’d have been included in the Official Timeline book. Instead, that book acknowledges things have been made that aren’t technically canonical.
JesterMarcus2025-10-08 07:23
I don't really care what promotional documents, actors, directors, writers and so forth say. They already contradict one another too much already. Plus, they can all be changed at any time without the actual films or shows changing. Only what's on screen matters.
Hyperbolicalpaca2025-10-08 08:20
It’s not in the Disney plus mcu timeline, which does however include the Netflix shows, and it’s not in the official sacred timeline book
admknight2025-10-08 06:15
Oh well if you say so then.
DigificWriter2025-10-08 06:19
"Oh well if you say so then"
Marvel Studios said so.
admknight2025-10-08 06:21
Sure buddy. They certainly did. Is the Marvel Studio you speak of in the room with us now?
DigificWriter2025-10-08 04:50
"Feige said that it was a part of the MCU back in the day, and never walked back on those claims"
The second part of this comment is unequivocally false.
See Loki Episode 1x01 and Brad Winderbaum's comments about squaring AoS and Agent Carter with the current Canon.
marvelcomics222025-10-08 04:54
Loki 101 said Coulson died because Coulson died. He was dead, not for 8 seconds or 40, but for days. Winderbaum never said anything about them not being canon and neither did Feige.
PickerPat2025-10-08 05:14
"Well, I’ll tell you this, and put it to you like this. It’s exciting for me to think about how to square those ABC shows with the canon,” said Winderbaum, indicating that while he has thought about how to canonize Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Agent Carter and Inhumans, he hasn’t figured out how to do so just yet.”That, to me, if you know me and the way my brain works, that is fun territory to imagine,” confirming that for now, imagination is the only place in which those series should be considered canon.
It's been at least interpreted that way in an interview.
marvelcomics222025-10-08 06:05
I see it more as 'How these shows square with what's happening in the MCU now, and if they could return'.
duxdude4182025-10-08 06:43
It sounds like you’re the one in denial. Winderbaum alll but states it’s not canon and is considering how he might retroactively make it so.
JesterMarcus2025-10-08 05:10
We learn by the end of that show that there isn't a singular "sacred timeline", but a few timelines that share the fact that none lead to the birth of a new Kang. So no matter what, it is still canon. But whether it is in the same exact timeline, he did not say it was or wasn't. He just said he'd love to find the right way to work it and the multiverse saga is a great way.
Tuskin382025-10-08 04:56
Oh no, I thought he was only on TrekBBS
marvelcomics222025-10-08 05:03
I've seen them on the vast majority of any AoS related posts I've made on this subreddit whining about canon, even when it's not the topic of discussion.
duxdude4182025-10-08 06:46
Most likely because your posts (if they’re anything like this one) assume AoS is canon, which undermines whatever point you’re trying to make that depends on that being true.
At best, the films are canon to to AoS’ but not vice versa. Even then, it’s very hard to make anything Infinity War and later consistent with the events established in the show. I think saying they happen in a branched timeline like the Fox movies are is the most generous appraisal we can give AoS.
Hyperbolicalpaca2025-10-08 08:19
>Also, until someone says otherwise, AoS is 100% canon.
It has been said otherwise…
It’s not on the Disney plus timeline (which does include the Netflix shows…) and it’s not in the official sacred timeline book
PhotoBonjour_bombs192025-10-08 08:25
It’s not canon because it’s not in the timeline in Disney plus
Rustyhobo042025-10-08 05:00
Doesn't matter if it is or not. All the movies still happen in both universes.
DigificWriter2025-10-08 05:02
It does matter because on the Sacred Timeline, Coulson died in 2012 and stayed dead.
SuperMajesticMan2025-10-08 07:31
Says who
DigificWriter2025-10-08 07:39
Marvel Studios.
Hyperbolicalpaca2025-10-08 08:16
The official timeline on Disney plus, the official sacred timeline book…
dzan796ero2025-10-08 08:36
There's an official book?
Morgoth18142025-10-08 04:47
Doubt it. Maria and Fury are the only ones who know.
marvelcomics222025-10-08 04:50
The doctors know too and so does the team, but yeah beyond Hill and Fury, it's possible that no one else knows. Zemo had to dig a lot to find out about Bucky, and T.A.H.I.T.I. was Level 10 access, so it probably had a lot more security around it.
Kagir2025-10-08 06:34
I consider T.A.H.I.T.I. a private thing of Fury, tbh. Or at least the facility. He also likely had the existence of Goose locked behind level 10 as he would never admit some stupid “cat” damaged his left eye.
ClaimSecure80382025-10-08 08:52
Why would anyone even know that for it to be under clearance?
Kagir2025-10-08 08:54
Matter of pride in the case of Goose. He would file him as a cat anyway, no reason to let everyone know they got a dangerous alien among them.
d-o_oI2025-10-08 07:47
[removed]
AlienHooker2025-10-08 10:50
>discount Captain America guy
Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down?
CareerMilk2025-10-08 14:05
> the discount Captain America guy whose name I forgot
off the top of my head, Jeffery Mace?
cee-ell-bee2025-10-08 07:30
What? We see throughout most of the entire series (especially season 1) him interacting with other agents. It wasn’t a well kept secret
_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_2025-10-08 11:09
Supposedly you have to be level 7+ to know he's alive, but nobody else knows about TAHITI.
Meme_Machine1012025-10-08 04:51
Didn’t they address in S3 it was so top secret it didn’t get out in the leaks and that’s why they had to hire Jeffrey mace as the public head.
marvelcomics222025-10-08 04:55
I'm not sure, I haven't seen it in a while, but most people knew that Coulson died, so it's possible.
Stormik2025-10-08 09:05
I believe it was even said that TAHITI was so secret Fury kept it off the books. It wasn't even in his cube.
ComplexTable71502025-10-08 04:52
[deleted]
marvelcomics222025-10-08 04:55
Feige never said that. It works 100% in the canon of the MCU 616/199999.
[deleted]2025-10-08 05:02
[deleted]
marvelcomics222025-10-08 05:06
Agent Carter actually works if they establish that making S.H.I.E.L.D. took a while longer, S.H.I.E.L.D. was a government organization again, so they could have rebuilt, and the Darkhold in both AoS/Runaways and WandaVision/Multiverse Of Madness was different because there were multiple copies.
illbeyour1upgirl2025-10-08 05:07
Go find the quote and post it here
dpittnet2025-10-08 04:54
lol
Grayx_28872025-10-08 04:55
Not really.
neogreenlantern2025-10-08 04:56
Yes/no because the show is canon/not canon
Smaragd442025-10-08 04:59
Honestly, I don't really care anymore lmao. It's been 10 yrs+, it doesn't really make a difference now if he's dead or alive
AlienHooker2025-10-08 10:51
He's dead, 100% canonically. That's not what the conversation is about
RistianC052025-10-08 05:05
My headcanon is that Maria hill made sure that the Avengers never saw Coulsons files since she was secretly working with him.
Working_Original_2002025-10-08 05:17
The weight people pretend Coulsons death had on the avengers is laughable. Like oh no! They found out he is alive!! Now all that avengers business they did for the better part of a decade is meaningless!
elpantera882025-10-08 05:07
Coulsonis alive?!??! When the hell did this happen and why was it never utilized?!??! Dude should have been running next to Cap at the end of endgame
marvelcomics222025-10-08 06:03
Happened in AoS S1, didn't show up in the movies because different studios. He was bought back using Kree blood, but died eventually after being Ghost Rider for like five seconds, and was dead (again) during Endgame.
SonicFlash012025-10-08 06:28
Don't know why you're being down voted - I also had no idea. Plenty of folks here skip stuff.
Banjo-Oz2025-10-09 00:46
Watch Agents of SHIELD for the full (awesome) story. Seriously, it's the best Marvel show or even movie we've got, IMO, except maybe GotG. It is also just a great scifi adventure show on its own, too; tone and writing is VERY much like the classic Buffy the Vampire Slayer series crossed with X-Files by way of superheroes. And it often ties in pretty cleverly with the then-current MCU movies like Thor or Winter Soldier. Be warned though that the first half dozen episodes or so are a bit weak compared and more "standalone" compared to the rest of the series.
Scumofdeeearth2025-10-08 05:09
Ooc: pretty sure AoS is not canon to the mcu anymore
DigificWriter2025-10-08 05:12
You're correct.
And even if it does get Canonized (again), it's likely that it will be a Multiversal series not set on the Sacred Timeline.
marvelcomics222025-10-08 06:06
Not confirmed, it's canon until someone says it's not, and no one ever said that.
Rman8232025-10-08 06:20
I still go 50/50 on whether it is or not but the fact they haven’t acknowledged it in any way (the show ends with SHIELD a fully legit operation again and yet groups like the DODC, SWORD, and SABER act like they’ve replaced them with no confirmation SHIELD is even still in the picture) I think does says a lot. Feige might not come out and say they’re not canon but at the same time I doubt they ever get referenced going forward. A lot of creative decisions were made on the show that affect the overall lore of the MCU and that Marvel Studios might not agree with (Inhumans being an example) and they simply probably don’t want to open that bottle now. The Netflix shows were more popular and did very little to impact the overall universe so it’s much easier to bring them in. Especially when Feige wanted Daredevil before Perlmutter gave him to Loeb and Marvel Television.
sucksfor_you2025-10-08 12:41
Hotter take: it both was and wasn't, because of the time travel in the show. It was canon to the main MCU universe, until they time travelled to the future, and once they did that, and travelled back in time, they were in a different timeline.
One that didn't attract the attention of the TVA because it wouldn't result in a Kang, we can assume.
Perca_fluviatilis2025-10-08 14:03
> One that didn't attract the attention of the TVA because it wouldn't result in a Kang, we can assume.
By the end of Loki the TVA aren't bothering pruning timelines anymore.
sucksfor_you2025-10-08 14:04
Sure, it just depends on how you work out that change. Its "always" been like that now, but we know that it wasn't, so who knows.
Perca_fluviatilis2025-10-08 14:08
The TVA sits outside of time. From its perspective, all the events from every timeline are happening simultaneously since they can hop it at any point in them.
cinnaminimoon2025-10-08 05:12
I doubt this was on the regular SHIELD servers. Fury kept it a secret from Coulson himself, and even HYDRA had no idea despite literally infiltrating the place since Peggy gave them free roam (or not, depending on your perspective).
d-o_oI2025-10-08 08:31
A ton of prominent public figures saw Coulson alive and well for the duration of the show (Mace, Talbot, lawmakers, etc). It's one of those plot devices that are just unworkable with the entire premise of the show, which is why it makes sense that instead of confirming the canonicity and ending the debate after decades, nobody at Marvel has given an emphatic answer affirming it.
mothgra872025-10-08 05:15
How did he survive?
_JAD19_2025-10-08 05:25
He didn’t survive, Loki did actually kill him. He was resurrected afterwards
marvelcomics222025-10-08 06:04
Died, resurrected with Kree blood.
redsandsfort2025-10-08 05:19
They didn't leak EVERYTHING. Things that SHIELD knew that was still a secret after this:
Wakanda and Vibranium
Captain Marvel
The Skrulls and shapeshifting
Pym Particles
Ghost
RonSwansonsGun2025-10-08 07:20
So the stuff they hadn't come up with yet, lmao
dntExit2025-10-08 09:40
Well, kind of. From that list at least, they definitely had Pym Particles, Skrulls and Captain Marvel.
_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_2025-10-08 11:04
The leak was in Winter Soldier.
All those other things are from later films.
synapseattack2025-10-08 13:44
Captain Marvel took place in the 90s
Hank Pym was doing crazy particle shit in the 80s
By the way that time simply works we must consider that in canon these things were known by shield when the leak happened.
The films are not a straight linear progression from one to the next
_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_2025-10-08 13:52
We are talking about the real world. The stuff that “turned out” to still be secret was all the stuff that the writers hadn’t thought of yet.
Markus28222025-10-08 15:02
Besides this. Tahiti was known about at the time and we never got evidence that anyone knew about it. So even at the time whether through oversight or planning they established that not everything was leaked.
SkekJay2025-10-10 00:12
Pym Particles were definitely thought of. Ant Man was in production since before Phase 1 so Pym Particles were definitely a thing behind the scenes
d-o_oI2025-10-08 07:31
[removed]
Latina_Deku2025-10-08 07:31
when?
Pristinefix2025-10-08 07:34
End o civil war
Funmachine2025-10-08 08:38
Isn't it obvious he asked T'challa for help?
iErnie562025-10-08 07:46
It wasnt like Wakanda itself was secret, he could have easily typed "Wakanda" into Google Maps
Ill-Kaleidoscope48252025-10-08 08:25
Or "wakanada" as Bruce put it
Haltopen2025-10-08 07:53
Black Panther had followed them there to the winter soldier base and presumably gave them a lift
KelvinDoesThings2025-10-08 09:14
The post credit scene of Civil War takes place in Wakanda, so it can be assumed T'Challa escorted him there and now Cap has a lifetime pass to the country.
dntExit2025-10-08 09:33
Didn't he have direct dealings with the literal heir to the throne before his first visit?
Vinnie_Vegas2025-10-08 12:16
Wakanda was presenting at the UN - The country was known, it was just thought to be a small developing nation.
The secret was it being a technological powerhouse, not that it existed.
PercyTheBlue2025-10-08 12:18
Are you referring to Infinity War when Cap told Sam the coordinates to Wakanda? Steve had been to Wakanda prior to Infinity War, he and Bucky were there at the end of Civil War with T’Challa.
MajorNoodles2025-10-08 13:23
T'Challa probably gave him his wakandaphone number at the end of Civil War
blackbutterfree2025-10-09 05:06
I mean, he had dropped Bucky off there a few years prior, if you're talking about Infinity War. If you mean when he actually left Bucky there, it's obvious T'Challa brought him there.
Desperate_Ad_92192025-10-08 10:30
White Vision and they had him for 5 years before anyone found out.
outofbounds3222025-10-08 14:10
Hawkeye family as well
DellOhRus2025-10-08 15:22
Well more importantly Fury kept TAHITI files in the black box outside of SHIELD servers
jimmyedagawa782025-10-09 17:50
This 💯
JollyJoeGingerbeard2025-10-08 18:40
Eh, I don't know about that. We're told *everything* was dumped online, and we have no reason to doubt Natasha's words or intentions. The point was to take down SHIELD, so you may as well reveal every secret it had. Intentionally holding anything back would undermine the point of their actions.
So...
1. World governments knew about Vibranium. Claue had a bunch, and both Steve and Tony understood the second his brand was mentioned in *Age of Ultron*.
2. Carol "Avenger" Danvers, the Skrulls, and the Kree were the *raison d'etre* for the Avenger Initiative and Phase II weapons. Something would be included in the files.
3. Videos of Pym in action were shown during *Ant-Man*. It's safe to assume those came from Natasha's file dump. The source of the footage could be SHIELD or a hostile nation.
4. Ghost is also probably known by some, and she would just be chalked up to another covert operative like the Ant-Man. Valentina at least needed a lead to find Eva, and we have no others.
It might take a few years for people to sort through it all, but it's reasonable to assume it's out there.
redsandsfort2025-10-08 18:50
Everette Ross didn't know Wakanda had any more vibranium.
Didn't he bother reading Natashas SHIELD files dump on Wakanda?
Why wouldn't he read it? He knew Klaw was obsessesed with the place?
Is he stupid or lazy?
JollyJoeGingerbeard2025-10-08 18:59
Officially, the story was Wakanda didn't have any vibranium because Claue stole it all. That was the belief, and nobody had spies inside the country to tell them otherwise. Governments still knew of its existence, and that it originated from Wakanda.
We do not know what else SHIELD knew or suspected. We have no reason to believe they even knew about the murder of Prince N'Jobu in Oakland. "Intelligence" will have blind spots.
Adorable_Ad_34782025-10-08 05:21
Do we know for certain that BW leaked the files in the AOS Earth? Perhaps their version of CA2 also played out differently.
KingKaiKai0012025-10-08 05:23
I'm not even sure that Kevin Fiege realizes this yet. Bring back Phil!!
Pretend-Meaning-15362025-10-08 05:28
Tahiti was classified even to shield’s files just like how Clint’s family and whereabouts where kept secret in aou
Chardan00012025-10-08 05:29
Isn't he a robot?
Grumpiergoat2025-10-08 05:30
Even Joss Whedon, who worked on the show, said Coulson's dead as far as he's concerned. It was maybe-canon during the first season but it's definitely not canon now except in the general multiverse sense.
The Coulson who died in Avengers is never going to show up in the MCU again and no one's going to reference anything he did in the show because he's fully dead in the MCU. Folk can headcanon what they want, but Feige simply won't reference him so the folk who insist something is canon don't get miffed by him or someone else definitively saying it's not canon.
_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_2025-10-08 11:10
He's fully dead in Agents of Shield too.
marvelcomics222025-10-08 11:24
Coulson's dead in the MCU, he died like a million times, but the most recent one was in 2018.
DangleberryFortune2025-10-08 12:47
That's hilarious
EightBiscuit012025-10-08 05:42
I’m pretty sure that wasn’t in the files. It was just Fury, Hill, and the doctors that knew and a piece of technology that has no other known uses. It was so secretive that people at Coulson’s tank or higher didn’t know about it
elconquisador692025-10-08 05:58
No because T.A.H.I.T.I. Was not IN the books. It was so secret that very few knew of it and had to be sworn to secrecy. But not like a government agency level of secrecy, more like a pinky swear level of secrecy.
d-o_oI2025-10-08 08:39
LOL! If you were on Talbot's detail, [you knew…](https://youtu.be/2XNPqYLtR3w?t=44)
Romnonaldao2025-10-08 06:35
TAHITI was a deep, deep blacksite SHIELD program. It would not have been in normal SHIELD files. Another examples of this would be the Barton Farm
Just-Contact-97562025-10-08 06:35
No.
Greedy-Somewhere-3072025-10-08 07:25
Didn't Brad Winderbaum recently state that it's not canon currently? Why are we still debating this?
DigificWriter2025-10-08 07:59
"Didn't Brad Winderbaum recently state that it's not canon currently?"
Yes.
"Why are we still debating this?"
Because denial isn't just a river in Egypt.
Greedy-Somewhere-3072025-10-08 08:51
I don't get it. All the pro arguments are just the PR promo pieces that the executives gave years ago.
Yet look at how AoS has been treated after the first seasons. I don't get it how some can be so blind to see that it's just multiverse canon, nothing more.
marvelcomics222025-10-08 11:28
He did not. No one ever said that it's not canon, fans just raise questions that don't need to be raised.
a_phantom_limb2025-10-08 07:30
Daisy (still Skye then) deleted all of the S.H.I.E.L.D. files that Natasha released which directly related to members of the team before those files could be acquired by anyone else.
blackbutterfree2025-10-09 05:13
This.
OjamasOfTomorrow2025-10-08 07:44
No because it’s not canon. It’s just not. It was for awhile, sort of, but it’s not.
KOStrongStyle2025-10-08 07:47
I'll be honest, until the day comes that literally ANYTHING from Agents of SHIELD is directly referenced in the movies, then I don't believe Marvel Studios counts it as canon to the MCU.
marvelcomics222025-10-08 11:24
The Helicarrier?
SpellOpening78522025-10-08 12:59
Also the Darkhold I think?
Didn't it go on some sort of journey from Dr. Strange --> Runaways --> AOS --> Wandavision? (Not sure on the specifics for AOS anymore, and have 0 knowledge about Runaways)
marvelcomics222025-10-08 13:09
Unless it was the same copy all along, it was AoS S4 > Runaways and a separate copy was WandaVision > Multiverse Of Madness.
SpellOpening78522025-10-08 13:12
A second copy probably makes sense yeah. Although I wonder who stole it in Dr. Strange in the first place to get it to Wanda like 5 years later
CaptHayfever2025-10-08 16:46
Wanda took it from Agatha.
DellOhRus2025-10-08 15:21
Completely different Darkhold. ABC Darkhold doesn't use chaos magic
MajorNoodles2025-10-08 13:26
That was more AoS back-referencing AOU than the other way around. If there were AoS characters on it when it showed up, I'd argue you had a point, but it was crewed by TWS characters, not AoS characters.
KOStrongStyle2025-10-08 15:41
That's the closest to anything being referenced but even that isn't a direct reference. Fury never says Colson specifically. He just says, "a friend," and we're supposed to know who that is because of the show. But you can insert anyone's name there and it makes no difference to the film.
So as far as I'm concerned that's a "connection" that's a one-way street. Which is basically a summary of that entire show's relationship to the films.
CaptHayfever2025-10-08 16:45
Feige confirmed that connection himself, so we don't get to say it's not one.
Haltopen2025-10-08 07:56
Files about the Tahiti project were likely only stored on the Toolbox along with any other secret files that Fury had decided were for the shield directors eyes only. The only trace of it that Fitz and Simmons could find when given access to the full shield archives was a travel record of fury traveling to an abandoned bunker called “Guest House”, with no information that would tell an outsider anything about what it is or here it is other than it’s supposedly a collapsed bunker from WW2
PrimaryMuscle13062025-10-08 08:05
Well I’d say TAHITI was in it possibly but I’m sure Fury kept Coulson being saved by it close to the vest.
HerrPizza2025-10-08 08:53
Not even the Agents of Shield in the show knew about T.A.H.I.T.I., it's reasonable to assume that Black Widow also didn't know and only leaked what information she had access to, and Fury was the only one who had access to everything
graveybrains2025-10-08 12:10
Their secrets had secrets
Human-Win47032025-10-08 12:50
I don't think Agents of Shield is canon so it doesn't matter.
padfoot121112025-10-08 13:39
I will guess Iron Man absolutely knew, everyone else hard to say, Tony probably respected Coulson privacy, and was pissed Coulson "lied"
admiralgoodtimes2025-10-08 13:49
You’d think JARVIS or FRIDAY would’ve picked it up and let Tony know
JANTlvr2025-10-08 15:07
TAHITI, I doubt was on those files. It was too off-books for that.
But it would've been odd for them not to somehow find out anyway, given that Coulson was both running an underground intel org and appeared in court publicly in season 4.
DellOhRus2025-10-08 15:19
You don't have to doubt, it wasn't. The files were in Fury's black box. Not in shield.
SinginGidget2025-10-08 18:43
TBH Natasha releasing the files and everything not being public kind of makes her releasing the files moot. And other than it affecting the show with the Ward reveal and the SHIELD schism, it had no real affect on the MCU at all. It's kind of a big thing they decided to ignore. The same as they do the Blip. There should be like some kind of Lone Gunman (X-Files era) group that printed out everything and they're trying to prove some of the things that the US Government was able to erase from the internet right after she released them all.
But it seems like she didn't even release anything about the Winter Soldier program, or Tony would have known about how Bucky was involved with his parents death a whole lot earlier. (There is no way he didn't have JARVIS scan everything and that JARVIS wouldn't have brought it to his attention.)
rdldr12025-10-08 20:53
My headcannon says that Maria Hill is still alive.
Raj_Valiant30112025-10-08 22:12
It is certainly up for debate.
HoochieKoochieMan2025-10-08 22:56
I hear it's a magical place.
LittleCupcake24782025-10-09 00:03
I don't think Fury made a S.H.I.E.L.D. file on that. That's why the Clairvoyant couldn't figure out how Coulson came back to life in Season 1.
The_Linkzilla2025-10-09 02:28
I think it's just easier to believe that Agents of Shield isn't canon. I mean, it might've gone and pissed Tony off to find out that Coulson was alive and never got in contact with them since...
snowhawk042025-10-10 06:30
In season 1, Fitz and Simmons use the S.H.I.E.L.D. database to search for what they can. They are equipped with a physical copy of Coulson's Level 10 medical file and use what they know to look through all of the S.H.I.E.L.D. data. They end up going into travel logs and stumble across "Guest House", presuming its related to "GH-325" found in the medical record. That would lead them to a file they thought was encrypted data but was actually a flattened image of a 3-dimensional location for the Guest House. It seemed any direct information on Project T.A.H.I.T.I. would have been classified on the servers if they were there. We later learned that the highly classified files were kept by Fury on a device called the Toolbox. It had the location of several S.H.I.E.L.D. secret bases unknown to the government after the leaks. Old SSR information and things kept off-book were stored on the device, like the 0-8-4 Obelisk. May would later recover Coulson's Project T.A.H.I.T.I. Level 10 "Final Report" that was encrypted on a USB drive that Fury buried in Coulson's grave.
Zemo says in *Civil War* that most of the data leaked by Natasha was encrypted. It took him a year just to decrypt the information on Bucky and his missions.
In the first episode of *The Falcon and the Winter Soldier*, Sam and Rhodey are walking through the Smithsonian museum and come up to updates given to the Captain America exhibit. The exhibit has murals and pillars of information. One pillar covered the Sokovia Accords (*Civil War*). [Another covered his time as a fugitive (*Infinity War*). The latter mentions S.H.I.E.L.D. assisting him.](https://i.imgur.com/4ZviAs4.jpeg) This was long after the events of *Winter Soldier*.
>**Out of Hiding**
New York Under Attack
>For the first time, Captain America operated outside the confines of a governing body. Rogers' new team consisting of fellow former Avengers, including Natasha Romanoff, Wanda Maximoff, and Sam Wilson, was forced to operate off the grid and live a new life as fugitives after aiding and abetting the accused Barnes. With some times to S.H.I.E.L.D. and the intelligence community still in tact, the team still worked to aid in the protection of Earth and its citizens.
>After two years of operating outside the law, a new threat from above brought Steve Rogers and his team out of hiding to once again join the fight. New York was under attack and, much like the events of 2012 that led to the forming of the Avengers, the threat was from another world. While the casualties, destruction, and impact of this event seemed to leave much less of an impression as a whole, it wasn't until a short time later that the true extent of the damage was suffered.
Coulson was leading S.H.I.E.L.D. at the time the Sokovia Accords were implemented and was known for running off-book, secret missions (e.g. Intel on Strucker's location, Helicarrier 64 repair and deployment, the liberation of Eden Fesi). Talbot tries to convince Coulson to bring S.H.I.E.L.D. out from the shadows and re-legitimize itself at the cost of being subject to the Sokovia Accords. Coulson was against registering his Inhumans and initially refused. After the fallout with Hive, Coulson was forced to step down as Director to avoid S.H.I.E.L.D. being hunted again and eventually shut down. President Ellis would appoint Jeffrey Mace as the new Director and all inhumans under S.H.I.E.L.D. were forced to register. Coulson would return to being a field agent. If S.H.I.E.L.D. was going to help Rogers, it would likely have been before Mace became Director. Though, there was the storyline at that time where Elena was stealing resources from S.H.I.E.L.D. to assist Daisy, who was also a fugitive on the run.
TheNamesAxel_0092025-10-10 06:42
1. I don’t understand how people are arguing about “canon” in a multiverse that’s pretty well established as having limitless possibility due to the existence of branching timelines.
2. It’s kinda tough. Because like, sure, Tahiti was off the books, but you also can’t tell me that Nick Fury, Nat, Barton, and plenty of other super-spies or geniuses who would have cared wouldn’t have known about Coulson being alive after the fact. I’d probably imagine that you’re right- they were all dealing with universal level threats, so they might not have had time to catch up with their old friend.
If anything, this is inspiring me to go back and rewatch (and finish- oops) AoS.
Commentaires
Edit: Oh no, not u/DigificWriter again.
You'd be right if it weren't for the existence of Mobius and 2012 Loki's conversation in Loki Episode 1.
Other than the fact that it isn’t on the official disney plus timeline, along with agent carter and inhumans, while the Netflix shows all are, and the fact that it isn’t in the official sacred timeline book
Meanwhile, I'll rely on the facts as they exist currently.
* the show doesn’t even mention the Snap from Infinity War… directly after it took place. That makes no sense.
* the show has an alternate version of the Darkhold than the one which we know is canon to the MCU
* [Chloe Bennet herself said the series is not canon](https://www.thepopverse.com/tv-marvel-studios-agents-of-shield-canon-chloe-bennet?utm_source=chatgpt.com)
* in the series they re-establish SHIELD as a legitimate government organization, yet it remains a dead organization in the movies
* the rules of time travel work completely different between AoS and Endgame
* times where Fury appears in the series are times where he is *confirmed* to have been in space according to the movies
The most realistic explanation is that only the first 4 seasons are canon, and the time travel shenanigans in S5 led to a branched universe. It completely stops making sense and connecting with the MCU after that
Furthermore, the series does not appear anywhere on any official Timelines for the MCU, and Brad Winderbaum, current Head of Marvel Television, made comments about wanting to "square those ABC shows (AoS and Agent Carter) with the Canon".
> **MOBIUS:** It’s funny, for someone born to rule, you sure do lose a lot. You might even say it’s in your nature.
**LOKI:** You know, things didn’t turn out so well for the last person who said that to me.
**MOBIUS:** Oh, yeah, Phil Coulson.
(Plays footage of Coulson's death)
**MOBIUS:** Didn’t the Avengers come together to literally avenge him by defeating you?
**LOKI:** Little solace to a _dead man._
Loki would've had no answer if Mobius simply said *"Well he didn't stay dead"*… the ultimate answer if Mobius could prove his threats were toothless.
I don't really care what promotional documents say or don't say. Those are marketing documents, not much more. That's just me. Until it shows up in a show or movie, I don't care what producers, directors, actors, documents or whatever say. Those things change once another person steps in. What's on the screen is more important.
What he said doesn’t mean they aren't canon, just that they are still working it out.
/u/DigificWriter is talking about Loki the show, not the character. The show tells us he died and makes no mention of his resurrection, despite having a clear opportunity to do so.
Marvel Studios said so.
The second part of this comment is unequivocally false.
See Loki Episode 1x01 and Brad Winderbaum's comments about squaring AoS and Agent Carter with the current Canon.
It's been at least interpreted that way in an interview.
At best, the films are canon to to AoS’ but not vice versa. Even then, it’s very hard to make anything Infinity War and later consistent with the events established in the show. I think saying they happen in a branched timeline like the Fox movies are is the most generous appraisal we can give AoS.
It has been said otherwise…
It’s not on the Disney plus timeline (which does include the Netflix shows…) and it’s not in the official sacred timeline book
Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down?
off the top of my head, Jeffery Mace?
And even if it does get Canonized (again), it's likely that it will be a Multiversal series not set on the Sacred Timeline.
One that didn't attract the attention of the TVA because it wouldn't result in a Kang, we can assume.
By the end of Loki the TVA aren't bothering pruning timelines anymore.
Wakanda and Vibranium
Captain Marvel
The Skrulls and shapeshifting
Pym Particles
Ghost
All those other things are from later films.
Hank Pym was doing crazy particle shit in the 80s
By the way that time simply works we must consider that in canon these things were known by shield when the leak happened.
The films are not a straight linear progression from one to the next
The secret was it being a technological powerhouse, not that it existed.
So...
1. World governments knew about Vibranium. Claue had a bunch, and both Steve and Tony understood the second his brand was mentioned in *Age of Ultron*.
2. Carol "Avenger" Danvers, the Skrulls, and the Kree were the *raison d'etre* for the Avenger Initiative and Phase II weapons. Something would be included in the files.
3. Videos of Pym in action were shown during *Ant-Man*. It's safe to assume those came from Natasha's file dump. The source of the footage could be SHIELD or a hostile nation.
4. Ghost is also probably known by some, and she would just be chalked up to another covert operative like the Ant-Man. Valentina at least needed a lead to find Eva, and we have no others.
It might take a few years for people to sort through it all, but it's reasonable to assume it's out there.
Didn't he bother reading Natashas SHIELD files dump on Wakanda?
Why wouldn't he read it? He knew Klaw was obsessesed with the place?
Is he stupid or lazy?
We do not know what else SHIELD knew or suspected. We have no reason to believe they even knew about the murder of Prince N'Jobu in Oakland. "Intelligence" will have blind spots.
The Coulson who died in Avengers is never going to show up in the MCU again and no one's going to reference anything he did in the show because he's fully dead in the MCU. Folk can headcanon what they want, but Feige simply won't reference him so the folk who insist something is canon don't get miffed by him or someone else definitively saying it's not canon.
Yes.
"Why are we still debating this?"
Because denial isn't just a river in Egypt.
Yet look at how AoS has been treated after the first seasons. I don't get it how some can be so blind to see that it's just multiverse canon, nothing more.
Didn't it go on some sort of journey from Dr. Strange --> Runaways --> AOS --> Wandavision? (Not sure on the specifics for AOS anymore, and have 0 knowledge about Runaways)
So as far as I'm concerned that's a "connection" that's a one-way street. Which is basically a summary of that entire show's relationship to the films.
But it would've been odd for them not to somehow find out anyway, given that Coulson was both running an underground intel org and appeared in court publicly in season 4.
But it seems like she didn't even release anything about the Winter Soldier program, or Tony would have known about how Bucky was involved with his parents death a whole lot earlier. (There is no way he didn't have JARVIS scan everything and that JARVIS wouldn't have brought it to his attention.)
Zemo says in *Civil War* that most of the data leaked by Natasha was encrypted. It took him a year just to decrypt the information on Bucky and his missions.
In the first episode of *The Falcon and the Winter Soldier*, Sam and Rhodey are walking through the Smithsonian museum and come up to updates given to the Captain America exhibit. The exhibit has murals and pillars of information. One pillar covered the Sokovia Accords (*Civil War*). [Another covered his time as a fugitive (*Infinity War*). The latter mentions S.H.I.E.L.D. assisting him.](https://i.imgur.com/4ZviAs4.jpeg) This was long after the events of *Winter Soldier*.
>**Out of Hiding**
New York Under Attack
>For the first time, Captain America operated outside the confines of a governing body. Rogers' new team consisting of fellow former Avengers, including Natasha Romanoff, Wanda Maximoff, and Sam Wilson, was forced to operate off the grid and live a new life as fugitives after aiding and abetting the accused Barnes. With some times to S.H.I.E.L.D. and the intelligence community still in tact, the team still worked to aid in the protection of Earth and its citizens.
>After two years of operating outside the law, a new threat from above brought Steve Rogers and his team out of hiding to once again join the fight. New York was under attack and, much like the events of 2012 that led to the forming of the Avengers, the threat was from another world. While the casualties, destruction, and impact of this event seemed to leave much less of an impression as a whole, it wasn't until a short time later that the true extent of the damage was suffered.
Coulson was leading S.H.I.E.L.D. at the time the Sokovia Accords were implemented and was known for running off-book, secret missions (e.g. Intel on Strucker's location, Helicarrier 64 repair and deployment, the liberation of Eden Fesi). Talbot tries to convince Coulson to bring S.H.I.E.L.D. out from the shadows and re-legitimize itself at the cost of being subject to the Sokovia Accords. Coulson was against registering his Inhumans and initially refused. After the fallout with Hive, Coulson was forced to step down as Director to avoid S.H.I.E.L.D. being hunted again and eventually shut down. President Ellis would appoint Jeffrey Mace as the new Director and all inhumans under S.H.I.E.L.D. were forced to register. Coulson would return to being a field agent. If S.H.I.E.L.D. was going to help Rogers, it would likely have been before Mace became Director. Though, there was the storyline at that time where Elena was stealing resources from S.H.I.E.L.D. to assist Daisy, who was also a fugitive on the run.
2. It’s kinda tough. Because like, sure, Tahiti was off the books, but you also can’t tell me that Nick Fury, Nat, Barton, and plenty of other super-spies or geniuses who would have cared wouldn’t have known about Coulson being alive after the fact. I’d probably imagine that you’re right- they were all dealing with universal level threats, so they might not have had time to catch up with their old friend.
If anything, this is inspiring me to go back and rewatch (and finish- oops) AoS.