No Way Home Villain Differences
I apologize for my ignorance of anything that may have already been declared, but what is the explanation for why Doc Ock and Electro in No Way Home have some slight differences to them compared to how they are in their first movies (Spider-Man 2 and Amazing Spider-Man 2)?
Namely, Doc Ock is wearing a black turtleneck, looks slightly older, and even seems to have longer tentacles—all of which don’t exactly match his SM2 self.
Also, Max Dillon is notably far more collected and mentally stable than how he is in TASM2, almost seeming like a different character.
Are these versions of the characters (as well as the other villains) meant to precisely be the ones from the Tobey and Andrew movies? Or are they variants from universes that are closely similar to those movies’ universes?
In the latter case, I would imagine their universes would have different story conclusions upon returning to them cured.
Namely, Doc Ock is wearing a black turtleneck, looks slightly older, and even seems to have longer tentacles—all of which don’t exactly match his SM2 self.
Also, Max Dillon is notably far more collected and mentally stable than how he is in TASM2, almost seeming like a different character.
Are these versions of the characters (as well as the other villains) meant to precisely be the ones from the Tobey and Andrew movies? Or are they variants from universes that are closely similar to those movies’ universes?
In the latter case, I would imagine their universes would have different story conclusions upon returning to them cured.
Commentaires
Osborn would likely still get charged for gross negligence and illegal human experimentation, and likely some kind of third degree murder or manslaughter as a consequence. He still voluntarily took an untested drug.
Otto's situation was a complete accident that altered his mind. Maybe some kind of negligence? And presumably some civil suits.
Max probably wouldn't get much leeway. The second he tasted power (and realized his relationship with Spidey was parasocial) he went nuts of his own accord.
Connors would probably be a similar case to Osborn. Illegal human experimentation that lead to his crimes. He was clearly altered by his drug, but he took it voluntarily.
Marco was still on the hook for all his past crimes. I assume he was on the run the whole time after Spider-Man 3 and would continue to be after No Way Home. Plus, if he were ever tried, he would 100% be responsible for everything he did as Sandman; he was completely in control. Maybe that final fight with Venom could be argued as a crime of passion...maybe? And maybe he'd get some sympathy from a judge if he explained he robbed money for his daughter's medical bills...but he still endangered hundreds and assaulted police officers in the process. If it was just burglary, that would be easier to talk out of.
That is an incredibly obtuse way to go about it.
My original comment starts with “they *LIKELY*” because it’s a theory that explains the differences from the old movies. Nowhere did I state it was an absolute fact. It’s a theory based on the lack of evidence to the contrary and to provide reasoning for the huge differences
Just because I'm using some intuition and some level of imagination that you aren't seeing doesn't mean it's "obtuse."
As OP pointed out, Doc Ock was wearing a completely different outfit in the Spider-man 2.
They have different outfits and looks so assuming they’re a slightly different variant from the Webb or raimi -verses actually makes way more sense
We even see something just like that in Deadpool vs Wolverine (and MoM) where the Wolverine variant (and professor X, black bolt, etc) look exactly like the Hugh Jackman Wolverine version we already know but with a different costume.
All we know, as viewers, is that variants were pulled from parallel universes. You're assuming they're from the *exact* same universes as much as they're assuming they're from similar universes.
The entire thing is moot anyway, quantum mechanics implies that interaction between two universes would create a divergence no matter what. Even if you pulled Green Goblin from that exact same universe, having done so would have naturally split the timeline into two variants: the original, and now the new one with a Green Goblin that's been removed and returned. Now you'd have the unaltered Raimi universe and a very similar one, wherein Goblin got a second chance, running parallel to one another, with each further diverging into similar but still parallel universes down their respective timelines. The mainline MCU would likely have been split by that entanglement as well, resulting in one where the spell never went wrong in the first place and, of course, the Sacred Timeline as we've seen it.
The entire plot of the film is they are taken from moments before their deaths in the original films. If they get sent back to their original universes, they die.
MCU Spidey doesn't want to do that.
It's like... the entire plot line of the film.
Please show me the proof you have of it "being similar universes, but not the same".
Were you equally confused when watching endgame?
There are *several* points in NWH in which it's explained that the villians are pulled from their respective universes moments before their death.
I'm not sure *why* they decided to go that route, but it's 100% in the film in multiple instances.
I'd like to think the universe's branch out with this: an original branch where all villains died and leaving the films intact and where Tobey and Andrew come from, and a new one where the villains are cured and changing events, leaving both scenarios to exist without retcons.
That or the cured villains were sent back to the exact moment they died and everything they did to cure them was useless and everything happens exactly the same.
There isn't an easy explanation so they'll probably never reference this, ever, in future films.
Go back and watch No Way Home, please. For the love of god.
If you don't want to watch the whole film, here is a clip of Dock Ock explaining to Norman that he died in their universe.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEIBAV2qP-Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEIBAV2qP-Q)
Ironic when calling someone else dense as fuck.
Although if I recall, there was still a little plot hole with one of them because of that.
The people that were pulled from the multiverse were people who *knew who Peter Parker was*. They didn't get pulled into the MCU because they died.
Just because certain ones were pulled from the moment they died doesn't mean they all had to be pulled in that way.
The entire premise, as quoted from the film,
Doctor Strange : "That little spell that you botched where you wanted everyone to forget that Peter Parker’s Spider-Man, it started pulling in everyone who knows Peter Parker’s Spider-Man -- from every universe -- into this one."
Later on -
Dock Ock - And then what? We perish?
Electro - Nah, no thanks, I’ll pass on that
Norman - Let me out of here. Peter!
Peter - Strange, we can't send them back. Not yet.
Strange - Why?
Peter - Some of these guys are gonna die.
The biggest example is that Electro never discovers Peter's identity and still gets sucked through the dimensions.
It's also fairly easy to handwave with multiverse stuff. "That's not 'our' Tobey and Garfield, but they are multiversal versions that are identical enough to the ones we know, with a few slight differences"
In universe: Electro said something like "different universe, different power"
So now he looks like sexy Jamie Foxx instead of dweeb Jamie Foxx haha
It's the incredibly 90's "zero to hero" motif that worked so horribly in those films. But it's all there.
The entire rest of the film he has an updated hair style, even if it's blue/transparent.
I dunno where these people are getting their information from. Yes there are changes, but I mean there has to be. There is only so much de-aging they can do. You just have to suspend disbelief a little to make the film work.
If his personality had stayed the same but he'd gone crazy, it would have been a much scarier villain.
There were a lot of weird choices in that movie. I respect that they were trying new things, but I also feel like at least half of them should have been immediately scrapped because anyone could see they weren't going to work.
Also I think the 'cool asshole' personality shift was only really introduced in No Way Home. He remarks that the 'energy is different' and he essentially has to reform himself out of pure electricity. I think it's a decent enough explanation for the huge change in personality and appearance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage
This guy's personality changed completely after a metal rod shot straight through his brain.
FTFY
The people in this thread are doing massive mental gymnastics to make this shit work. They gave them different clothes or whatever because they did. Who cares.
It's the same people from the film. If they weren't, why on earth would they spend the money to hire those actors? They aren't going to spend the time trying to get people to understand that "oh yeah, well they are *kinda* the same people, but not quite."
Yes, well all understand the multiverse has infinite variants. But that ain't what this movie is about.
Watching the movie, I did not expect a close-up shot of his teeth literally shifting in his gums to close the gap
That kind of stuff was common in 80's/90's movies, where a dorky or "unattractive" character becomes "attractive" after they get powers/become evil, and it's always blatantly done. I don't know why it's a thing in movies.
Heck, even Iron Man 3 does it with Killian, although that one is somewhat based in reality, but it's pretty muddy. He *says* he was doing physical therapy*,* but I think the implication is that Extremis is what helped fix him. But either way they don't physically show him changing so it's better, if only slightly.
As for his hair style/baldness, they don't show that, but his head is a glowing blue blob after that. So I'm perfectly fine with them giving him a decent hairstyle.
They also make a point to give him an arc reactor which give him and even more powerful power set.
I cannot believe the conversations people are having trying to justify the fact that these aren't the same variants from the Toby and Andrew Spider-Man films.
Edit: I made a mistake while typing out the word Constraints*, it was an honest mistake, we're only human :)
I saw a cool headcanon that I really like. In the mainline MCU, Tony Stark basically replaced the world's electric grid with his arc reactor technology which is why that Earth has a different type of electricity than the TASM world.
I just remembered he's DC but idgaf, my point still stands
For Electro, all his changes are for the best to make him far more comic accurate.
EDIT: I meant James Franco, shoutout to his brother Dave!
But in universe Electro does explain that the power is different... it's primarily sourced from Arc Reactors in the MCU-verse, not just when he stole the one from the little Stark tech gadget - but in general Stark Tech was used to power parts of NYC - first teased in Avengers
For Doc Ock - he is old and CG was used on the tentacles, vs practical. This then allowed for some more creative uses, but also meant in general he was used a little differently.
Same for Human Torch in Deadpool and Wolverine
In an infinite multiverse, there would be infinite versions of each universe we've seen. Like a never-ending gradient transitioning between different timelines, with slight variations. You go a couple universes over, and Doc Ock is wearing a different shirt. You go insanely far, and Tom Holland is Spidey instead of Toby.
It's not like he showed up in an Iron Man suit.
He supposedly got pulled into the Hollandverse at the moment of his death, so this was _after_ he got powered up.
Or his clothes suddenly changed when he hopped dimensions.