Former Marvel TV head praises Daredevil: Born Again, but says don't call the Defenders the "Netflix" heroes: "I'm not sure if anything like that has happened before – especially across two networks"
"One thing that I'd love to clear up – while it's an easy shorthand to call them the 'Netflix' heroes – the plain truth is Netflix was our network. They aired the shows that then Marvel Television created, produced, wrote, cast, shot, edited, scored, etc. – hours and hours of some of the most brilliant people who worked on those shows for Marvel TV," says Loeb. "It was such an incredible team who have since gone out there and made names for themselves on nearly every other network/streaming service as executives/writers/producers – the works! Those folks are the real heroes of those six series!"
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This is partially why Disney wanted to get everything in house once they left Netflix, because of their immense pride in their brandings.
The Netflix versions had long seasons with a concentration on character development. The shows were also really dark, something that resonates with the comic books. That just won't happen under Disney atm.
How fucking ironic.
>The shows were also really dark, something that resonates with the comic books. That just won't happen under Disney atm.
So do you acknowledge that this point about darkness is addressed and you want to move onto a different discussion about "good storytelling"? Because I'd rather not get the two topics confused.
They literally made the shows, not Netflix. 🙄
I just think of and refer to them as the Defenders, but you know what would help with that? Doing more with the Defenders. Hint hint!
I understand they're canon, and execs can say, "This was all Marvel, 100%, we just published the shows." Then why was there almost zero relationship between those shows and the MCU?
If it's licensing, sure, but that's also why we distinguish Venom and whatever the fuck Sony is doing as its own thing.
And don't get me wrong, my point is that it's okay for things to tell their own stories and not everything has to tie into each other. Kevin Feige was talking about integrating TV characters into MCU movies way back when Age of Ultron released. We know the writers of Infinity War discussed including TV characters, and I agree with them that it would have been a bad idea because movie audiences and show audiences aren't the same. The reason you don't see as much of a relationship is because you still have to introduce series characters to movie audiences. That's why for some people Matt Murdock showing up in Spider-Man got their theater to explode but for other people there was no reaction. Millions of people watched that Daredevil series but so many more people watch movies that it has to be taken into account.
I'm willing to see only *Hawkeye* as canon because Kate Bishop's mom running a security company while in debt to Fisk provides an explanation as to where Francis and the other bodyguards Fisk used in DDS1 came from.
Yeah, but ignoring the events from other media to a degree that can't be explained in-universe obviously makes people doubt if it's canon. In the era before Marvel's in-house show production, it was just a lot more vague if the various shows were even *supposed* to be canon. There was the occasional statement that they were, but no tangible effort was put into it for a long time.
Civil War was the most extreme case, with recasting an actress from Luke Cage as an unrelated character, and the Russos not even knowing about the Terrigenesis crisis, let alone mention it in the movie, even though it would logically have been super relevant to the plot.
And the post Infinity War season of Agents of Shield not mentioning the Snap in any way seemed like the final nail in the coffin of the "shared universe". That one is still the most difficult to reconcile, which is why no-one seems to agree whether AoS is now sacred timeline canon or just alternate universe canon.
Then Jarvis from Agent Carter suddenly showed up in Endgame, but at that point it wasn't even clear if it was just an Easter egg or a genuine attempt to make the universe "shared" again, because it almost seemed too late for that.
The D+ shows are a bit disconnected too sometimes, but it's made a lot more clear now that they're at least *supposed* to be canon.
What you say about Fisk is true enough, but it definitely still feels like it's *supposed* to be 1 continuity, and in any case, it's a much smaller continuity breach than some other stuff.
Maybe I’m. not remembering this right, but isn’t all of the later half of the AoS series taking place in alternate timelines, the future, virtual dimensions, etc? They don’t inhabit the same WORLD as the rest of the MCU at that point.
Plus, some fans are too 1 sided with feige, so when him and Ike pearlmutter and Jeff Loeb, who was with marvel TV at the time under a separate division, didn't like each other, of course some fans would be bias and try to side with feige cause more fans are into the mcu films more than the mcu shows, whether it was under marvel TV or D+ anyways
The reason why I think fans Don't carry the same standard for the D+ shows as much is because those shows aren't as fulfilling or considered "mid"/bad in some fans eyes and don't deserve the same standards. I mean, the D+ shows aren't really long and are pretty short and rushed, 6 eps, less than a 6 hour runtime, you could pretty much binge 1 season in a day, more so than daredevil season 1 or agent's of shield season 4, which those can take 2-3 days if going on a 8-10 hour limit.
Also, you got to remember the die hard marvel fans aren't the same level with your average marvel fan and not all marvel fans are just exclusive to mcu, for me, I like to watch, read comics and watch cartoons of marvel, but I am really weak with the videogame side of marvel, however, I got enough "marvel knowledge" to understand these characters and storyline and can watch or read quick summaries to understand certain concepts that MCU tries to implement, but for some, they don't have much of a reference to hang on to really grasp the concepts properly, especially how much time and effort to really understand and get knowledge about it, hard to convince other fans to get into the TV side of marvel, who only focus in the movie side, when the TV shows take a lot more time to digest, watch, get into, then the films, 1 film can take about, on average, 2 hours and there is dozens of them in marvel in live action, 1 season of daredevil can take up to 13 hours, even tho the runtime varies between 40 mins up to 1 hour, so I Don't think your average mcu movie watcher would have the attention span, time and money to get into TV series like that and expect them to also get into the films as well, especially when 13 hours of 1 season can be equivalent to 4-6 films in that same time frame. Films give you a condense story with spectacle in a short amount of time, TV series gives you an expanded storyline with a lot of world building and simple spectacles. It isn't something anyone can do, to be able to be look at TV series and films at the same time, but in a different lense. That's why when I talk or meet with TV series watchers and film watchers, not all of them can get into both at a good balanced pace, some people are more into movies, than shows and some people into shows aren't into movies much either...
Idk, I don't really get it either, to be part of the morbuis universe, which is also part of the venomverse and pretty much the rest of the Sony marvel universe??? But those ones are pretty much the closest to being part of the mcu, madame Webb and kraven the hunter seems the only films that are really separate and part of their own thing imo, as far as the defenders saga stuff goes, unfortunately, back then, the marvel TV shows wasn't acknowledged enough by fans and some of marvel studio's execs, at the time, because Ike pearlmutter, who was pretty much the head of the Marvel TV division, didn't get along with Kevin fiege and then Jeff Loeb wasn't really liked as well, so there was too much scrutiny with these head marvel developers that some fans just mostly focused on what was best for them and that was the MCU Films, wasn't until now that marvel TV folded, fox got owned by Disney and with this so called "multiversal saga" gimmick, everything is "connected" with the Fox X-men universe, the F4 films 2005 and 2007 specifically, the daredevil 2003 and Elektra 2005 films, blade trilogy and all that, so to say what is or isn't Canon is really just based on personal fan perception and there isn't something we can do and just have marvel studios and the Fandom form their own perception of what is the mcu main timeline Canon and what is filler or variant version of it.
But for me, I would say the main marvel projects in live action that is part of this whole multiversal saga is the Defenders saga, Agent Carter, Agent's of S.H.I.E.L.D, the FoX-Men films, thanks to Deadpool and wolverine and even The Marvels film, daredevil 2003 and Elektra 2005, F4 2005 and 2007, Blade trilogy, inhumans Season 1 because of doctor strange 2 Multiversal of madness, the Tobey and Andrew spidey films because of, no way home, hulk 2003 and incredible hulk 2008, venom trilogy, Morbuis and whatever Marvel is concocting with their crazy multiversal mcu in the future......especially with secret wars and ghost rider from Nicholas cage Era being rumored to be part of this war!
I've heard the series referred to as the Netflix shows, but thats because they were on Netflix, and Marvel had their own TV shows going like agents of shield.
The team is called the Defenders, and I'm sure more people would call them that if y'all had done anything with them since.
Gotta remember that when it comes to media, most people either don't mind, or they don't care. But extreme and negative opinions get clicks and clicks get you paid. Half the blame lies with fans not forming their own opinion. Mandalorian and Grogu isn't even out yet and there are people calling it the worst movie of the year.
That's one of Disney's problems when it comes to making good content. They pander to the haters screaming at anyone who'll listen, and never to the people who actually *watch* the movies and shows.
We're not giving Netflix all the credit, we're just trying not to confuse people when we talk about one or the other without having to give extra context.
If I say Marvel's daredevil, how does anyone know who tf I'm talking about?
"Jeph Loeb was not 'fired' from Marvel Television in the traditional sense; he departed the company in late 2019 as part of a reorganization where [Kevin Feige](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&cs=1&sca_esv=5539dfb16aea6726&sxsrf=AE3TifOfyXLxeFPLJuPgSEMIp5NtjcsyLw%3A1759838110569&q=Kevin+Feige&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwihmabrg5KQAxVNPUQIHR32MicQxccNegQIBRAB&mstk=AUtExfBh1qt0WUROE3XiGBT55Hn6-TD5h3T9fwlziKp8wUUX3KfEHFqNA19c8Jm9IAJVyxovSj3dzvuv6kM5yLQDXZMokmNntIOyxghykReQ-5CB9KrLPvyk03stoYBX1REVMz-hCBiCoNFInZsWqXQvKFn1hT6Kp223lKnlwUBXXf9LsPlJPVb4zylnOpTJsY0RA7VKiqXrzxYuK3D4sPjkCb3-xcAL3C9c6JRF4j0Qw_gJqrZxQrH7p_RgfW2PtpRb4MnAFYxpR1WA7D4-MnOYeelM&csui=3) took over creative control and the division began to be phased out. Loeb's exit was part of a planned transition where the live-action television shows previously overseen by Marvel Television were integrated into Marvel Studios."
Zero Marvel credits since 2020 as far as I know.
Those Netflix shows are still better than most things Disney+ has done, so does that mean the current team is just bad? The Netflix relationship seems to have been the best bit of said studio as proven by the output since...
And including the 'executives' in that comment is just silly. They've done more potential dollars worth of harm to the MCU than total dollars earnt by it so far.
Even Iron Fist got two! Iron Fist. I actually quite liked it but it was genuinely slated.
When Netflix did cancel them it kind of made sense because the other Marvel content would be on the new Disney platform. We don’t know if they would have if not for that.
Referring them back to Netflix is a reminder of when Netflix bothered to follow through with stuff. I’m nostalgic for those days.