Doomsday doesn't need the buildup that Infinity War needed or Kang Dynasty would have needed...

I understand that people are worried about the lack of buildup to Doomsday, but let's be honest... based off of some set info around call backs to Steve going back in time and the topic of incursions, the use of the Russo brothers, and bringing back the staple characters from decades of Marvel content - Marvel Studios is making Doomsday the culmination of all Marvel content up until this point.

The Multiverse Saga failed in the sense that they didn't build up to their planned "big bad" and kept it all cohesive like they did with the Infinity Saga.

So instead, Marvel Studios is making the Multiverse Saga a way to "tie up" all the different Marvel universes colliding. That way when we look back on Doomsday and Secret Wars, we don't think about how they failed to bring Kang to fruition in Secret Wars, but instead we say, "wow, look at how they used all that multiverse jargon to pull in the Fox Universe as a last hurrah before soft rebooting."

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Commentaires

HankHowdy2025-10-07 04:00

Is this cope?

HighFivePuddy2025-10-07 04:03

Massive

CaptainTurtle32182025-10-07 04:09

I made a note because of yalls response.

But im not saying any of this as a good thing. I'm saying Marvel is making a last ditch effort to salvage the Multiverse Saga's overall story.

tomato_johnson2025-10-07 04:09

Yep. The "reasoning" phase of grief

Operator_Starlight2025-10-07 04:11

We are, admittedly, a little too bitter about all of this, aren’t we? We won’t even have a trailer until December, minimum, let’s try to keep an open mind until then, yeah?

AlienHooker2025-10-07 04:35

Did Ultron have any buildup?

NotAStatistic22025-10-07 05:36

Yes.

AlienHooker2025-10-07 05:41

When? Genuinely asking

SonOfRageNLove262025-10-08 07:51

Winter Soldier post credits scene, showing there's still remnants of Hydra, led by Baron Von Strucker, that have Loki's scepter and used it to experiment on the Maximoff twins

Tony in Iron Man 3 being really traumatized after going through the rift in Avengers, which is what eventually leads to his suit of armor around the world idea

And that's all I can think of

TheJackalFiles2025-10-07 04:43

“Cope” is just a lazy way to shade people whose default setting isn’t easy cynicism.

Dbfresh02025-10-07 04:11

I'm looking forward to both films.

GarySoneji2025-10-07 04:17

Without knowing the story of Doomsday, no one can really comment on “buildup.” Most stories *just happen* without a trail of easter eggs. The “big bad” has always been a concept, not a person. If not for the premature announcing of the title, most people wouldn’t, and don’t, have a clue there was something planned or anything has changed.

TheJackalFiles2025-10-07 04:23

This. It seems to me Marvel and co have a very easy path to pay off a bunch of seemingly disparate threads in Doomsday that will recontextualize a lot of what we’ve seen as “buildup.”

timforbroke2025-10-07 04:40

Thank you! There’s a lot of things tied together in IW/EG that people see now in hindsight and think they were fully planned or known about before they were actually tied together.

TheJackalFiles2025-10-07 04:45

It’s ’cos everyone got impatient after Endgame and forgot how serialized storytelling works.

Dezbats2025-10-07 06:55

Not just serial storytelling.

People don't seem to understand storytelling at all anymore.

Even if nothing is carried over from other movies aside from the characters and the setting, even if there is no "build up", or plot threads from previous movies addressed, it could still be good.

Great even.

Stories can just be self-contained. They can tell you everything you need to know about the story within the story.

It's like people have grown so used to the idea of a cinematic universe that they forget that movies can just stand alone and still be a satisfying experience.

GarySoneji2025-10-07 07:05

They wouldn’t believe that James Bond isn’t a series of sequels.

eleazar04252025-10-07 05:44

When Infinity War was released, I was what Reddit would consider “general audience”; I didn’t know who the fuck Thanos was before that movie, and I still loved Infinity War even more than Avengers: Endgame. If anything, I think that not having any “buildup” can be beneficial for doomsday, simply because you don’t have to watch any previous movie to understand what is going on, a factor that also applies to Infinity War.

InflictingRage2025-10-11 16:23

I agree. I was also not a MCU fan when watching Infinity War. Infinity War was the movie that hooked me and made me go back to look at all the other movies. It was easy viewing for anyone who wasn’t a MCU fan. Good movies don’t need any ”build up”.

Vandersveldt2025-10-07 23:54

With as early as they announced the title and the actor, I'm assuming it's a misdirect. Would make a lot of sense for RDJ to be playing Iron Lad (a Kang variant from the source material) disguised as Doom, with the variant chosen specifically because Kang knows the visual would fuck with the heroes.

A LOT more sense than "Yo Viktor looks JUST LIKE Tony".

EnergyTakerLad2025-10-08 00:02

I agree but I in no way think thats the plan. Plus everyone keeps focusing on the idea hes gonna look just like tony. Ideally we never really see his face. Even if we do, prosthetics and such exist. They can basically give him an entirely new face for some short bits and have the mask on the rest of the time.

ogrezilla2025-10-07 04:19

Endgame was a well planned culmination of a decade of connected movies. These feel like a shoved together culmination of leftover scraps. It's not hopeless, but I'm more than a little skeptical.

Sunny-Chameleon2025-10-07 04:50

Ehh, calling it "well planned" is a bit of a stretch. Up until infinity war we were still guessing when/where the soul stone would show up, the guardians were completely disconnected from everyone else, and the avengers didn't get back together. The Captain Marvel movie didn't really add that much to the plot of endgame, and ant man 2 did, but barely.

I'm saying the IW+EG team worked with what they had and they stuck the landing. I'm hoping the new movie is 3 hours long to make everyone fit in properly.

TheJackalFiles2025-10-07 04:20

Not really sure what your point is here. They’ve already set up the premise of incursions and an unstable multiverse (literally being held together by Loki). It’s not hard to get from that set up to a movie that loosely adapts the Hickman Avengers run, regardless of whether they use Kang or Doom.

CaptainTurtle32182025-10-07 04:27

Your comment is restating my point.

TheJackalFiles2025-10-07 04:30

You’re saying it doesn’t need the buildup. My point is I think it’s had the build up. It’s just that the breadcrumbs aren’t as obvious as they were during the Infinity Saga.

NotAStatistic22025-10-07 05:35

No one knows Hickman, or what his Avengers run is or was. Just because you read comics religiously doesn't mean the general audience does.

TheJackalFiles2025-10-07 05:38

People who didn’t read the comics didn’t know the relevance of the infinity stones or Thanos until Infinity War.

ClaimSecure80382025-10-07 08:49

You can’t downvote them because this is just plainly true, people weren’t paying that much attention

HankSteakfist2025-10-07 04:41

People kind of forget that Thanos had a grand total of less than two minutes screentime in the MCU before he appeared in Infinity War.

The stones were set up, but the multiverse has also been setup across the films that have come out over the last 5 years. Multiverse of Madness, Fantastic Four, Spider-Man No Way Home and Deadpool & Wolverine all touched on this along with Loki

TheJackalFiles2025-10-07 04:53

Plus: Ms Marvel and Shang Chi both have mcguffins that can break through dimensions. And the post credit scenes in The Marvels, Brave New World and Thunderbolts.

SalemWolf2025-10-07 06:03

Fair point however Thanos was a prevalent feature throughout the arc. The entirety of the infinity stone saga was about Thanos and his collection of the stones through his lackies. Even if he wasn’t there he was still present. Doom is the enemy in the first film he appears in, and hasn’t been set up at all. I’m looking forward to Doomsday but I still feel disappointed that it feels like it’s coming out of nowhere.

After the spectacular infinity war saga the MCU has felt disjointed, and Doomsday is no different. It feels like it comes out of nowhere.

GarySoneji2025-10-07 06:53

The Infinity saga was about the introduction of superheroes to the world. Thanos and the Infinity Stones were retroactively applied to push the “story” forward. There is unnecessary focus on Doom considering Ultron also sprang up out of nowhere. Pretend the Avengers failed in that movie- That’s what Doomsday will be.

Hufa1232025-10-07 09:45

The entirety of the Infinity Saga was not about Thanos. He was in GotG 1, had an implied background role and cameod in Avengers, popped up briefly in Age of Ultron and I guess you could say he was indirectly present in GotG 2. The stones were featured in a few more movies, but most of the movies were not building up to Thanos.

The Iron Man trilogy, the Captain America trilogy, Thor 1 and 3, Ant-Man, Spiderman, Black Panther, Incredible Hulk and Captain Marvel had little to nothing to do with building up Thanos.

DrLeprechaun2025-10-07 10:57

Doesn't feel like a big boss if there's no mini bosses leading up

CloseToMyActualName2025-10-07 06:26

But he was present, that counted for a LOT.

As to the OP, they don't need a buildup because:
a) Dr Doom is arguably a bigger name than Thanos for the general public.

b) They spent $100m hiring RDJ precisely so they could make the audience care without a buildup.

GarySoneji2025-10-07 07:03

The lead-up to Thanos required a lot of elements to go from the start of Iron Man to an alien warlord seeking magic space rocks. What does Doctor Doom need that we haven’t already seen? A man in armor, super science, magic, advanced technology, and the leader of a nation have all been covered. Secret Wars only needs the multiverse and incursions to be introduced to create a fantastical story.

DrLeprechaun2025-10-07 11:02

You're talking about what fits within the universe as opposed to an audience's connection to a character. As a character, the only thing we can attribute to him is his pointed absence from the F4 film. Thanos had multiple scenes across multiple films, characters that reference him, and organizations that work for him. Doom has... presumably, a country (that we've never seen and know nothing about).

GarySoneji2025-10-07 20:29

A vague, general awareness doesn’t create a connection. If Infinity War didn’t happen yet (or at all), most people would forget about him like they have with so many others. The little bit they showed wasn’t exactly exciting to people who didn’t already have an idea of what to expect.

DrLeprechaun2025-10-07 20:37

I don't think that's true at all, people were hyped after he got teased in the first Avengers, and that's when everyone knew where things were eventually headed. He was obviously being set up as something bigger.

GarySoneji2025-10-08 06:58

Being excited means you needed to know who that was and what his appearance could mean. The regular movie-goer probably didn’t even stay long enough to see the scene. If they had, it’s not like there was a narrative implication.

The primary intention of the producers was to set up the possibility of his arrival. That’s why the setup was slow and incremental. There wasn’t a connection to a nameless guy for most people. At the time, people were sure he would be the villain of the second Avengers movie. The MCU isn’t a predictable story centered around a natural chain of events.

DrLeprechaun2025-10-09 01:12

Yeah man, but then he kept showing up after that first movie, and started getting directly named by other characters, and then we started getting glimpses into what his goals were. I think it's disingenuous to compare the complete absence of Doom from the narrative and who this version of him might be against Thanos, who had plenty of buildup and generally only one storyline that's majorly associated with him. I would also argue the setup is even more important this time around because Doom has already been done twice before, so the MCU needs to make a serious distinction with theirs- *especially* since they're bringing back legacy characters.

GarySoneji2025-10-10 05:45

Only one movie introduced him as an actual character. Doom isn’t the star of the show for the Multiverse Saga. At this point in the MCU, he’s not a concept that requires teasing. He can easily be a Dr. Strange villain and no one would ask why because his existence and skill set isn’t that fantastic. All they need to do is make Doom look like a menacing, cartoon maniac and they’ll succeed. Humanizing him and making him relatable is what failed the previous movies.

CloseToMyActualName2025-10-07 16:52

It's about audience investment. Thanos showed up over years as the big bad behind the scenes. So when he became the main character he had a ton of gravitas.

Without that he would just be the monster of the week like Hela, Gorr, Ego, or Ultron. They can still carry a movie, but the audience isn't excited about the villain and they don't feel like the same level of threat.

Doom is coming in cold, so to make the audience care then need to raise the stakes for the audience. That's why RDJ is involved.

GarySoneji2025-10-07 17:21

At the time, much of the audience still weren’t aware of the stingers, and many more were less impressed with the guy in a chair from Guardians of the Galaxy. Most villains are forgettable because they don’t actually accomplish much.

Hela had less of an introduction than Thanos and was more impressive. As long as they don’t forget the movie is based on comic books, Doctor Doom is an easy character to portray and make even more threatening, and he needs less exposition than the Infinity Stones or the Celestials.

Mizerous2025-10-07 20:20

Thanos had a bigger impact on Thor than Hela.

____mynameis____2025-10-07 07:39

F4 popularity among GA is way overestimated by BO analysers. Before July people were swearing here and even in the usually MCU hating BO subs that it would be the summer winner, would atleast outgross JW and F1, due to F4 being popular comic name, yet it came last among the big releases...

____mynameis____2025-10-07 07:31

But other than maybe MoM and Loki, multiverse was barely a plot device in all other movies. It has no lore development or expansion

Whereas stones although acted as Mcgauffins, had plot relevance and gravity in their significance. They had a lore, they were set up to be this powerful on demand object in atleast 3 movies(AOU, DS and GoTG 1) and quite influential roles in couple of others.(Cap 1, Avengers 1, Thor 2, and CM to an extend)

Also I hate when people reduce Infinity Saga set up to just Stones and Thanos. Its not just those two things but multiple movie character arc pay off too.

The ultimate example of MCU world building is Cap picking up the hammer in EG. To a person who doesn't have the slightest idea of MCU, seeing that scene alone, its just a dude in stars and stripes summoning some hammer but for majority of MCU viewers its peak cinema moment because of the 6 movies of development and set up Cap got before, and the lore the hammer got

So its not just developmental of main conflict and big bad but also the character's journey that made Infinity Saga so satisfying. Not to mention every subsequent movie had some ties to any previous movie which gave the feeling of its all connected, which is close to nonexistent in multiverse saga. (There is a reason the movies that are least popular while also being good in Infinity Saga are the prequels like Cap 1, CM and AM2)

So Multiverse saga's biggest flaw is the lack of that character arc and linear world building, not the under development of the main antagonists and conflict.

greenpride322025-10-07 14:22

But what you're leaving out is all the other characters were built up. You know a lot about them and their relationships with other characters. There are many smaller side stories/subplots. That's why so many of the scenes in IW/EW are impactful. It's basically a progression of a long running storyline - similar to watching an 8-12+ season show. You need to take it all into account, not just how many lines or screen time Thanos had.

Now take First Steps - no introduction to the characters - no emotion in the movie. If you're a fan you might to enjoy it because you can already assume so much background knowledge. But to the casual movie goer, it's a loose plot, throwing random characters on the screen with little or no introduction and generic plot.

On the one hand, I don't care so much about what others think about DD/SW; if they like it they like it, if they don't they don't - same with me. But on the other hand, I realize the business side of things, and to keep the MCU train rolling they need to have box office success. From what I've seen thus far, I think DD/SW will far underperform IW/EG; maybe the first teaser trailer will change my mind. In my non-comic circle, nobody cares about this or any recent MCU projects - complete opposite during Infinity Saga. Anecdotal you say? Well box office numbers seems to say the issue is wider than my circle.

LnStrngr2025-10-07 04:49

It only needs a few minutes per group to remind old fans of them or introduce them to new fans.

Armandonerd2025-10-07 04:56

I hope Kang is in both films and give his character or arc a conclusion

Mizerous2025-10-07 20:37

TVA: We took care of it

Armandonerd2025-10-07 21:30

There's more to it!

Thundergod2502025-10-07 05:07

The way you says this is like saying that Doomsday is like No Way Home which is very nice if they managed to pull it off right.

No Way Home also has 0 build up except for the Mysterio Cliffhanger and 100% only relies on past movies that never planned to be brought back.

NotAStatistic22025-10-07 05:34

"No Way Home had no build up—except the previous movie directly setting up the proceeding film".

Uhhh, yeah, sure.

The entire plot of No Way Home is a direct result of the actions Mysterio took in the prior film.

Thundergod2502025-10-07 05:43

Mysterio exposing Spiderman literally had no business with bringing all the other Spiderman's together lmfao. That is very much a stretch and they went through hoops, like bringing in Strange, just to make it possible.

There's no build up on that when Peter and Strange aren't even close in their encounter. They met like 20 hours tops.

If ur gonna say that Far From Home's cliffhanger is that build-up because it's the "direct result of action" then that just further solidifies Doomsday when the events in Doomsday is also the "direct result of action" of F4 First Steps

NotAStatistic22025-10-07 05:51

No Way Home begins directly after Spider-Man is exposed in the previous film. The Peters are there as a direct result of Holland Peter attempting to gain his secret identity again.

Just because every single plot device wasn't set up in the last film doesn't mean there wasn't any set up.

Thundergod2502025-10-07 06:23

The point here is that NHW and Doomsday is the same. You saying that just solidifies that. They both have little to none build-up.

Doomday *\[No Way Home\]* begins directly after F4: First Steps *\[Spider-Man\]* when Doom visited Franklin in the previous film. The Avengers/Xmen *\[Peters\]* are there as a direct result of Doom *\[Holland Peter\]* attempting to covet Franklin's powers *\[gain his secret identity again\]*

I don't even get what you're arguing here. I did say that there was no build-up except for literally that premise

>No Way Home also has 0 build up except for the Mysterio Cliffhanger

eleazar04252025-10-07 05:48

However, considering the significant box office difference between No Way Home and the previous movie, one could obviously argue that people didn't care much about the “buildup” and enjoyed the movie anyway.

NotAStatistic22025-10-07 05:52

Spider-Man is always going to make money.

kafit-bird2025-10-07 05:10

\> Marvel Studios is making Doomsday the culmination of all Marvel content up until this point.

As if anyone fucking cares.

Marvel blew its load with the last big "culmination" and failed to build up anything else in the meantime. That matters. Seeing Tobey Maguire team up with Hugh Jackman might be a huge thing for a subset of fans, but it's not going to read a big cultural "moment" the same way the end of the Infinity Saga did. Endgame was sold as the end of an experimental story arc spanning ten years. This is just the culmination of a series of corporate buyouts.

Even the nostalgia bait is kind of worn out at this point. Oh, Patrick Stewart is back? Just like he was back in Days of Future Past? And Logan? And MoM? Wow. Exciting. How many more times is he going to "be back"/"say good-bye to the role"?

SonOfRageNLove262025-10-08 07:58

I can almost bet you that the nostalgia bait is unfortunately going to gain most audiences.

RDJ as Doom is already a nostalgia-based choice and the main selling point of the movie. And while some of us may be bitter about it, most people are eating it up, being so excited about how the characters are gonna be so shocked when they see Doom's face and how Doom is gonna trick them and how crushed everyone's going to be at his betrayal and how he is probably a Tony Stark variant and so on and so on

ShadesOfTheDead2025-10-11 22:29

Yeah. Deadpool & Wolverine made over a billion dollars last year.

Cultural_Comfort58942025-10-07 05:14

Kang had a good run and Loki 2 wrapped his story up well enough

Although I wouldn’t be surprised if Doom’s intro is taking out Kangs.

xdrkcldx2025-10-07 05:33

Yes it is. It’s not only reason to be worried but it is a reason.

Decalvare_Scriptor2025-10-07 06:35

The problem is that Doom is a complex villain. He's not a giant planet eater, the power and threat of which is obvious. Introducing him in a movie and immediately needing practically every superhero in existence to take him on is tricky. (Assuming that's how it goes of course.)

The added complexity is having him played by RDJ and having to explain that to a general audience.

It's an awful lot to do in one movie.

cybo472025-10-07 07:20

Cope.

Grayx_28872025-10-07 08:28

I have a better question. What exactly does this movie even at this point? Because if you think this movie needs luck, 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂 yeah. You are barking up the wrong tree. The only thing this movie needs is a good God-damn script. So, the writers better not do a half-ass job on the story if they expect people to take this shit seriously. This ain't fucking Zack Snyder or M. Night Shyamalan. Or even that prick J.J. Abrams.

Massive-Cream17992025-10-07 10:37

I am sorry but it will tank. How will they connect all the mess they have created after far from home. Infinity War worked because all the characters were set up properly. The movie straightway continued the events of thor 3 and civil war. Thanos was being set up for almost 6 years with small glimpses and the idea of infinity stones was laid out in Age of Ultron. MCU has spent Phase 4 setting up Kang and now all that went to shit.

DuncanRG20022025-10-07 15:15

I think these two avengers films will be more sequels to endgame than wrap up films for the multiverse saga

Fictionj2025-10-07 16:08

Not enough build up? The move is 14 months away and I read the word Doomsday every day… anticipation is building. I heard a rumor we will have a teaser/trailer by December.

chickenkebaap2025-10-07 19:21

Hasn’t the multiverse been set up over the last 6 years?

ThisAbbreviations4762025-10-08 07:45

The "build-up" has basically been the same between the sagas. The only movies that really led directly into Infinity War were Thor: Ragnarok and Black Panther, when they already knew where things were going. Now, we have Thunderbolts\* and Fantastic Four with post credits scenes leading directly into Doomsday. People forget how much of Infinity War and Endgame was retroactively making things all come together, and how people only cared about (movie) Thanos as a character after Infinity War made it interesting.

Techno_Core2025-10-12 17:30

Counterpoint: You need the build up if you want people who don't normally see comicbook movies, to go see Doomsday.

I think that's what Marvel Films got right and why the numbers were so high. Doomsday could be the best movie Marvel's ever made but it won't see numbers like Infinity War or EndGame because that portion of the audience won't be there.