Can we talk about how much set up Doomsday needs?

This isn't talked about as much I would've assumed, but Doomsday is going to need tons and tons of set-up.

We haven't connected with any of the main new teams that much, we haven't seen a lot of the legacy characters in a long time, we have a new villain that the audience knows nothing about, etc.

For a film thats supposedly very propulsive, it's definitely going to have very different pacing compared to IW. Whereas IW seemed like a lot of payoff, this film has to first establish a lot more.

I am imagining huge exposition dumps, thoughts?

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Commentaires

Puzzleheaded-Kick4242025-10-06 00:12

how though?

annoyingrelieve2025-10-06 00:15

Doomsday is more like AOU or the first avengers movie.

Benjamin_Grimm2025-10-06 00:15

People were saying the same thing about Thanos before Infinity War, that we had only seen Thanos for five minutes and didn't even know his motivations yet.

Ill-Philosopher-76252025-10-06 00:34

That was a little different because we didn’t know that Thanos would be the protagonist of Infinity War. We all pretty much expect Doom will be the protagonist of Doomsday, so the question is will we care about the heroes he’s fighting? It’s easy to see parallels that are unfavorable to the upcoming movie.

N8CCRG2025-10-06 02:39

> Thanos would be the protagonist of Infinity War

Ah, somebody from the "Thanos was right" crowd I see ;)

Ill-Philosopher-76252025-10-06 02:45

No, a protagonist can be the bad guy.

CaptHayfever2025-10-06 05:19

For another example: Invader Zim.

matty_nice2025-10-06 00:47

The Infinity Stones were set up though, setting up the main device and plot for the film.

Assuming incursions are the main device and the cental plot for the film, were they set up adaquetely? Multiverse of Madness, but any other main movie projects?

Puzzleheaded-Kick4242025-10-06 01:09

the marvels, spider man no way home, avengers endgame, x men films, fantastic four first steps, thunderbolts

digitalheadbutt2025-10-06 01:13

I know it is unrealistic to assume people have watched all of the post-infinity saga content, but between MoM, NWH, wandavision, Loki, Quantumania, Ms. Marvel, Deadpool 3, She Hulk, FF, and even 'What If...', I think there are so many reality bending and multiverse destabilizing entities and events that they can put something coherent together. It's just going to be a painful amount of exposition.

It is such a huge lift for the writers, I'll be impressed if they can pull it off. They have so many subplots with dangling threads and real-world bs they have to resolve.

Puzzleheaded-Kick4242025-10-06 01:14

the marvels post credit scene setting up an incursion too

matty_nice2025-10-06 01:16

I think there's a difference between a project showcasing the Multiverse versus showcasing an Incursion.

How many major projects featured an Incursion? Outside of MoM which is the only one I can think of. Don't remember Deadpool 3 featuring it.

Honest question, been a few years since I've seen some of these and haven't seen them all.

digitalheadbutt2025-10-06 05:56

Right on, i just caught up with Thunderbolts, FF, and The Marvels, which is why I came to reddit to see what folks were extrapolating about how Feige and them are going to bring all these threads together in Doomsday. You have a point though. There is a fine line between referencing the multiverse and an "incursion"

Cassandra Nova does an incursion in the finale of DP3. Deadpool does some incursions in DP2, but that is before Disney reabsorbed the Fox IPs, so it doesn't count until they say so. The TVA in DP3 makes it kind of implicit but not guaranteed.

Multiverse of Madness included a version of Strange introduced in 'What If...?' So that feels like fair game as that show was also all out clashing multiverses through Infinity Ultron.

Spider-Man: No Way Home's core narrative and finale are about how his world almost shattered because of the faulty spell Strange tried to spin for Peter. That is 2 different cinematic Spider-verses collapsing into the MCU, which is like Earth 616, I think.

The Marvels' after credits is Rambeau being stuck in some hybrid of MCU and Fox's continuity. Kamala Khan breeches another reality in Ms. Marvel.

Quantumania, for all its faults, is about Kangs penchant for incursions and then domination of those realities.

Wandavision and Agatha are all tied up in Wanda's incursions in MoM.

Loki is all about incursions.

There are a lot of threads there.

Did you see the after credits for FF or Thunderbolts?

GarySoneji2025-10-06 06:14

What do you think incursions are? Sinister Strange isn’t Strange Supreme.

digitalheadbutt2025-10-06 17:06

The Strange with the 3rd eye that is trapped in the collapsed reality who attacks "our" Strange, and has the music battle with him, is implied to be the same one we see in What If which released before MoM.

To be clear, I don't care if I am wrong, so if I am, that's fine, hooray for you, but I watched this crap as it came out, and it seemed an obvious reference to their own material not just a reference to Sinister Strange in general.

I see incursions as when an entity from one reality invades another, either intentionally or unintentionally; benevolent or antagonistic also seems irrelevant if the people of the breeched reality have any kind of monitoring they typically what the invader to go back where they came from. Is there some other meaningful definition to "Incursion"?

GarySoneji2025-10-09 03:29

Yeah, they’re totally different variants. One of them is the most powerful version of Dr. Strange.

Incursions are the process of two universes’ boundaries eroding, causing them to collide and resulting in the destruction of one or both. It was suggested that someone traveling from one to another could cause one, but it’s not the act itself.

(I’m only warning to help you out so you can update your understanding of the events and their place in the MCU. In general, I’m agreeing with you; I think there has been adequate setup.)

digitalheadbutt2025-10-10 18:20

Right on, good points all. Thanks for the perspective and knowledge.

labbla2025-10-06 02:18

We had lots of Thanos in Guardians of the Galaxy. That movie gave us important characters he was connected to and set up his motivation and the concept of Infinity Stones. All the stuff with Gamora and Nebula doesn't work at all without being set up before the Avengers movies.

Jaideco2025-10-06 00:15

I’m assuming the same. This is the main reason why I have been sceptical of any “twice as many chairs theories”… They may be leaning heavily on the developments in Wonder Man and Vision Quest to reintroduce key characters but those characters will not get much set up in Doomsday, I expect Doom will get 40% of the screen time by himself. The rest will need to be split between the occupants of at least three different universes and they will be going with the most familiar versions of those characters precisely so they can avoid having to explain who they are again.

digitalheadbutt2025-10-06 06:08

From the after credits in FF, it seems like Doom is doing the incursions. I'm wondering if Franklin will be the MacGuffin again, or maybe that is Doom from the FFs universe, and he's coming to 616 or whatever the MCUs number is.

OutsideIndoorTrack2025-10-06 00:17

Maybe not if it's well written. Think Fellowship, first Avatar, original Star Wars. Huge "lore" series that catch everyone up in the first installment -- without prior knowledge. Doomsday will be fine

Gorguf622025-10-06 00:17

The New Avengers and the Fantastic Four each just got their own movie, the Avengers are made up of MCU mainstays, and the X-Men predate the MCU.

gabbertronnnn2025-10-06 00:24

Lol the original Avengers movie was set up with basically one previous film, but sure go off i guess.

BelieveInTheShield2025-10-06 00:38

Categorically false lol

gabbertronnnn2025-10-06 00:40

The MacGuffin and villain were introduced in Thor. THATS IT.

5 movies came before it, but serve as simply character introductions and in Steve's case, putting him in the correct year. Actual set up for the Avengers movie itself occurred in Thor alone.

Regenitor_2025-10-06 00:27

I think it'll be totally fine. If you think about how the Russo's connected all of our heroes in Infinity War (some of them hadn't been seen in a while either), their task for this is similar.

Your imagination will likely have to fill in some blanks. For example, I expect that we'll just be introduced to Sam's Avengers right away and Shang-Chi is just going to be there, on the team, kicking ass.

Doomsday doesn't need to explain what's been going on this whole time the same way Age of Ultron threw us straight into the action and let us know that The Avengers had been going on many missions together to end Hydra.

I trust the Russos to weave together all the dangling story threads masterfully, the way they did with IW and Endgame.

No_Satisfaction96092025-10-06 00:28

The movies called Doomsday. It’s his movie. This is how we’re going to get the back story.

DigificWriter2025-10-06 00:33

"Doomsday is going to need tons and tons of set-up"

No, it's not.

Puzzleheaded-Kick4242025-10-06 01:09

it’s really isnt lmao

dpittnet2025-10-06 00:39

It needs zero setup

HuckleberryUnique4462025-10-06 01:29

Good movies with good writing/script, especially when dealing with tons of already existing/known characters, don't need all the set up that people think.

IW is INCREDIBLE

But there is more than one way to make an incredible film(s)

DoomsDay doesn't need to break as a story in the same way that IW does.

Loose-Examination-392025-10-06 01:31

I am just really mad how we are not going to get anything decent about how the reforms. The post credit scene in Thunderbolts where they are talking about Sam assembling the Avengers and the copyright stuff piqued my interest so much and it would have been so fun to watch but we are getting like a 5 minute scene at most in Doomsday.

They failed to capitalise on Disney plus this year imo. One of the shows could have been about Thunderbolts or something that also shows Sam’s team. Or just sprinkle more post credit scenes about stuff like that. We desperately need connections but we got so little of them. I personally really wanted a group team-up show. It would have been perfect to establish the scenery and just provide info on the whereabouts of everyone.

Doomsday has to fill a lot of holes. Way too much still left hanging. I have no idea how/if they are going to pull it off.

ContentVanilla21402025-10-06 02:06

With the way they're marketing this film and are bringing virtually every major Marvel character, variant or not, into Doomsday + Secret Wars, it's becoming apparent that the "setup" is literally Marvel's entire catalogue of movies (and some shows). Just as the Infinity Saga (2008-2018) was the setup for Infinity War and Endgame, the Pre-MCU/Fox/Sony/Universal era (1998-2019) and the MCU (2008-2025) serve as the setup for Doomsday and Secret Wars.

N8CCRG2025-10-06 02:44

In the lead up to Infinity War:

Tony had major appearances in three Iron Man movies, two Avengers movies, Civil War and Homecoming

Steve had major appearances in three Captain America movies, and two Avengers movies

Thor had major appearances in three Thor movies and two Avengers movies

Hulk had major appearances in one Hulk movie, two Avengers movies, and a Thor movie

Black Widow had major appearances in an Iron Man movie, two Avengers movies, and two Captain America movies

Hawkeye had major appearances in a Thor movie, two Avengers movies, and a Captain America movie

In the lead up to Doomsday:

Yelena had major appearances in Black Widow, Thunderbolts* and Hawkeye

Everyone else has had two, one or zero major appearances in this saga.

If they try to make Doomsday like Infinity War, they will fail. The audience just has not had the opportunity to connect with and get to know the characters anywhere near as much. It needs to be more like Avengers or Age of Ultron. Especially with a heavy focus on Sam's Avengers.

MarcSpector17012025-10-06 04:30

The big problem is that the new heroes, by and large, haven't had the same impact that the original Avengers did. But that's why we're getting the X-Men. I'm personally hoping that Doomsday focuses mostly on the Fantastic Four. I'm also hoping Doomsday kills off some major characters and they don't get magically brought back. Ant-Man's Quantum Time Travel Exploit still exists, and if Doctor Doom manages to cause catastrophic damage, the Russos will need to explain why the heroes don't use the time machine again.

My hope is that we get the inverse of Infinity War and Endgame: in Doomsday, I want a lot of the older characters--Sam, Thor, Ant-Man, Rhodey, Captain Marvel--to be killed off, with the new characters like the Fantastic Four and the Thunderbolts saving the day in Secret Wars. Let';s clear the decks and streamline the universe going forward.

lfr22025-10-11 14:58

I've seen this argument posted before somewhere on YouTube or here but Dr. Doom is powerful but I don't think he ever was like a super epic villain...I realize that secret wars he becomes god doom but in general dr doom hast been a force to be reckoned with. I think though they can bridge some of the existing phase 4 and 5 stuff that brought about the darkhold and use that somehow to explain the sudden powers that's dr doom suddenly came out from nowhere with. There's a lot of good stories and background related to that. Anything but using that stupid cgi baby franklin to explain dooms powers...that was horrible and looked awful...no more cgi babies...wtf were they thinking. Ugh