Is Helstrom an MCU show?
Disclaimer: I haven't seen Helstrom, it's on my watchlist, I'll get around to it eventually.
So, I'm not asking if the show is canon, we know the answer to that, it's no. But is it an MCU show? So, what the general definition of an 'MCU show' is a show made as part of the MCU, it was intended to exist in it, and released with that intention. So that would be anything from the older Marvel Television to the newer Marvel Studios/Television shows, from Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D., Agent Carter, the Defenders shows, Runaways, and Cloak & Dagger (I'm definitely not forgetting something), to WandaVision, Loki, Echo, Marvel Zombies, everything.
If I'm not mistaken, Helstrom was initially conceived as an MCU show, and it was going to be like Daredevil, where it would be the first show to set up an eventual Defenders-like crossover with other shows, one of which being an AoS spinoff of sorts, in Ghost Rider, starring Gabriel Luna. The group was shows were going to be called Adventure Into Fear. When Marvel Studios took over Marvel Television, those plans, alongside Ghost Rider, were canceled, and Helstrom released in late 2020. And again, if I'm not mistaken, without the Marvel branding, at all. So, is Helstrom an MCU show?
So, I'm not asking if the show is canon, we know the answer to that, it's no. But is it an MCU show? So, what the general definition of an 'MCU show' is a show made as part of the MCU, it was intended to exist in it, and released with that intention. So that would be anything from the older Marvel Television to the newer Marvel Studios/Television shows, from Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D., Agent Carter, the Defenders shows, Runaways, and Cloak & Dagger (I'm definitely not forgetting something), to WandaVision, Loki, Echo, Marvel Zombies, everything.
If I'm not mistaken, Helstrom was initially conceived as an MCU show, and it was going to be like Daredevil, where it would be the first show to set up an eventual Defenders-like crossover with other shows, one of which being an AoS spinoff of sorts, in Ghost Rider, starring Gabriel Luna. The group was shows were going to be called Adventure Into Fear. When Marvel Studios took over Marvel Television, those plans, alongside Ghost Rider, were canceled, and Helstrom released in late 2020. And again, if I'm not mistaken, without the Marvel branding, at all. So, is Helstrom an MCU show?
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But there are smaller references to the MCU...nothing big at all from what I remember but its there. Easily the show with the least references to the MCU
But...I think its cool as canon
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That was because Feige (Marvel Studios) and Perlmutter (Marvel Television) were at war.
Hawkeye uses Agent 19, which is Mockingbird's number in the comics, but Agents of SHIELD doesn't.
It’s one of three live-action shows in the Marvel Television era that was clearly stated not to be, the others being Legion and The Gifted.
So either he changed his mind midway through the interview, or by "isn't canon to the MCU" he didn't actually mean "not part of the MCU". He more likely meant that it's effectively not part of the MCU since it doesn't reference or crossover with any other MCU projects.
Yes and no.
It was upon the decision to move forward with Disney+ that they cancelled every Marvel show. They couldn't air any of them on Disney+ and it risked fragmentation and slow/low adoption of Disney+.
2. Superhero media has a precedent of demons specifically oddly enough not having a logo or branding, but being still a part of wider universes despite this. Look at Lucifer in the arrowverse, or even here with Helstrom having albeit minor references to the mcu, but they are there, in a newspaper they directly state the Sokovia accords are happening.
So yes they didn’t include anything marvel included in their branding, no that doesn’t mean it’s not a part of a wider universe.
3. Neither is runaways, which got entirely removed from Hulu, is considered marvel, was marketed as such with a logo, and is stated to be mcu canon with plenty of references.
So my response to this essentially is not only did he say it’s part of the MCU, clarifying an earlier statement, but it contains references to MCU exclusive things like the Sokovia Accords, and other MCU canon material are not only not under Marvel but also not on Hulu at all, something even worse.
(If you want me to I can gladly source any info here too, just let me know what you wanna know more about)
That being said, I definitely enjoyed it.
Unfortunately, things fell through when Disney gave the role of Chief Creative Officer to Kevin Feige, and merged Marvel Studios back into Marvel Entertainment, where Marvel Studios absorbed Marvel Television. Helstrom was further along in pre-production that it survived. Ghost Rider had unfortunately been canned due to a disagreement between the heads of Hulu and Marvel Television's Jeph Loeb.
Marvel ultimately removed their logo from the show as they felt the content was too mature and didn't want younger viewers, or unknowing parents to mistake it as "safe" for full family viewing.
Take all of that as you will.
Personally, I recognize it as a Marvel Cinematic Universe series considering the context of its existence. People will disagree, but that's not my problem.
And they've been making more mature content since. It took a while but, I mean, forgetting Deadpool & Wolverine, Daredevil: Born Again is a mature series, and they're not just moving forward with two more seasons, but Special Presentation spin-off about The Punisher. Marvel Zombies was also mature, despite being animated. They're also planning on making Blade - Whenever that finally releases - an R-rated, mature production. With his introduction, and characters like Mephisto, Jack Russel, and Man-Thing being brought in, it won't be long before Marvel starts leaning into the supernatural side of things, and likely bring back Helstrom and Satana in some capacity...
But I think it's fair to assume that it's not part of the MCU.
also remember that was the time during post-Endgame when MCU was sort of discovering its next path, with the whole acquisition of Fox properties, establishment of Disney+, merging of the then Marvel Television subdivision and the cancellations of the Netflix saga, AoS, Cloak & Dagger and Runaways shows etc, so there's probably a lot of thought process they went through.
they've probably already spent a huge decent amount of cash into developing the show, so i guess they just decided to continue with the show to not complicate things up. i guess it was sort of like testing the water for that kind of niche area in Marvel sort of thing, if it was done well, they could've been easily be retconned into the prime MCU, if it doesn't then they don't really have anything to lose as it was a one and done type thing they did at the time.
personally i have watched the show some years ago, thought it was kind of meh, but i do like the horror tone and i wish MCU could capitalize on that kind of different genres in their repertoire.
And unlike shows like Agents of SHIELD, Agent Carter, Runaways, Inhumans, and Cloak and Dagger where there's room to debate whether or not their current exclusion from MCU Canon represents a change from how things might've been previously, Helstrom's creators explcitly stated that it had nothing whatsoever to do with the MCU before it even premiered.
>The official account for the series on Twitter, trades and other websites reported that show was part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, with Collider stating that "the series is somewhat canonically inside the Marvel Cinematic Universe". Alain Uy also acknowledged that the show was part of the MCU. Meanwhile, Elizabeth Marvel said that the show would be part of the established Marvel franchise and that it would bring a new section of it, comparing it to Marvel's Daredevil.
[source](https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Helstrom#cite_note-18)
There’s plenty of evidence the other way too, but to state everyone said the show was not MCU is just entirely factually wrong.
VFX artists who worked on the show said this:
>Today is a big day for fans of the Marvel Universe with WandaVision’s debut on Disney+. Once you finish watching the sitcom-esque adventures of the Vision and the Scarlet Witch in the two episodes, there might be a craving for some more Marvel magic, check out Helstrom!
>A darker vision of the Marvel Universe, Helstrom premiered late last year on Hulu and is available to stream. The series follows Tom Austen as Daimon Helstrom with Sydney Lemmon as his sister, Ana, and is based upon the “Son of Satan” and “Hellstrom” comic books that Marvel has published over the last 50 years. CoSA VFX was tasked with creating visual effects for the Hulu series which has 10 episodes available.
>Shows like WandaVision and Helstrom only scratch the surface of Marvel’s mystical world, and with films like Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness coming in the future, there’s so much more to come. It’s an exciting time to be a Marvel fan.
Trevor Roberts the actor who played Father said this:
>A heartfelt thank you to everyone at #hulu #marvel #marveltv #helstrom for the amazing opportunity and privilege to join the #marveluniverse
He also said this:
>"Trust me when I say... getting your ass handed to you by @sydney_lemmon ....not the worst day at work.
>If you haven't already, check out #helstrom on #hulu it's the perfect primer for #halloween ! (...) #mcu"
(Making multiple posts like this)
Crypt TV made a sponsored video saying this:
>Everything You Need To Know About Helstrom | Sponsored
>What do you need to know about the #Helstrom siblings before watching the series? Come to the darker side of the Marvel Universe and meet the Helstrom family, all episodes now streaming, only on Hulu. #sponsored
Inverse interviewed Alain Yu, who played Chris Yen saying this:
>There's always the hope of Season 2. It all really depends on the audience. What we have going for us is that this show is unlike any other Marvel show. The MCU is a fabulous world. There are so many nuanced segments of the world that haven't been touched. This is one of them. It's scary, and it deals with a lot of mature themes. That's something a lot of Marvel fans have been starving for, that variety of the universe. There's so much more worlds for us to explore... This is certainly the beginning of something bigger.
Nolan Hupp who played Young Damian Helstrom posted about Helstrom on his Instagram account saying this:
>"Helstrom is now streaming on Hulu! This is SO AWESOME and I’m so excited for those of you who have strong enough stomachs to watch it...
>I have to say... being a part of the Marvel universe is BEYOND exciting, and getting to represent a piece of Daimon Helstrom is a massive honour! #helstrom"
To date technically the last official word on the canonicity of Helstrom to my knowledge is that first quote by the VFX artists, saying it’s the same Marvel Universe as WandaVision.
As for the showrunners, I’m gonna be completely frank here, they’re dumb, there’s no other words for this, either uneducated on what the MCU means or just dumb. I can quote it to you too if you’re curious but it’s just laughable. They do say point blank “it’s is not MCU” several times, and every time blatantly contradict that. In one interview the showrunner said it’s not mcu, oh here’s all the mcu Easter eggs we put in to connect it to the mcu, in another he says it’s not mcu, we’re just in our own corner of that universe. These are the only times the showrunner said this to my knowledge.
There’s a single quote by Ana Helstroms actress stating point blank we are not MCU and that’s it. This is the only quote that I can find that clearly states it is not MCU and doesn’t contradict itself. But all these numerous other statements indicate otherwise. I’d argue 3 actors saying the same thing is more significant than 1 saying otherwise.
Also note every single quote I’ve given here was released on October 17 2020 and beyond, AFTER release.
[source](https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Steve_Fuenzalida/Proofs_of_the_canonicity_of_the_MCU_Marvel_TV_shows) (I apologize it’s a bit disorganized it’s not mine, just a great resource for this stuff)
It's not 199999 in the same way the later seasons of AoS weren't, but it's still MCU
What do you even mean by _not_ MCU show then, it's not canon to the MCU because it's not _in_ the Marvel Cinematic **Universe**
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helstrom_(TV_series)
It was cool but that was 8 hours of my life I'm never getting back
Also OP, PLEASE watch this show, it’s SOOO good. Between this and Runaways they’re both by far the most underrated MCU projects. I will warn you it gets dark but it’s a really good show
Though it was made by Marvel Television to be part of a dark corner of the MCU, it was released after Marvel Studios was in command, so they already had decided it wasn't canon. According the showrunner:
>"It's not part of the MCU," showrunner Paul Zbyszeweski clarifies to Looper while promoting the release of Helstrom's debut season. "We are our own thing."
I personally don't think it matters, though any MCU film will certainly never address any element of the show (and if it does, expect to see new actors or storylines).