Thunderbolts* scored the equivalent of 5.5M completed views on Disney+ in its first 5 days in the US (Nielsen).
Commentaires
VVantaBuddy2025-09-27 05:39
Per Nielsen, the week of its release on Disney+, "Thunderbolts\*" scored 702M minutes viewed in the US, the equivalent of 5.5M complete viewings from start to end of the film. Here's how it compares to other theatrical films debut on Disney+ over their five days. (For "Black Widow", it's the number for the first free release on Disney+, after its release on D+ Access).
eBICgamer20102025-09-27 10:19
I don't know how to prove Netflix and Chiffres is a reliable source. They're the only game in town reporting and compiling these numbers, but I don't know if I could trust them given how streaming platform kept their viewership numbers vague.
[In fact the person behind this was in this reporting game for more than a decade.](https://substack.com/@netflixandchiffres?utm_source=about-page) We're still taking numbers from the French newsletter at face value.
Historical_Ostrich2025-09-27 14:57
It's Nielsen SCR data - you can double check what they're showing for Thunderbolts in the current Top 10 report https://www.nielsen.com/data-center/top-ten/. 702M viewing minutes divided by Thunderbolts' runtime of 206 minutes nets out at an average audience of 5.57M, which is basically what they have here. Nielsen's metho isn't perfect - it's not capturing desktop/mobile viewership, for instance - but it's as reliable as anything out there.
BrokenReality3552025-09-27 17:20
>Nielsen's metho isn't perfect - it's not capturing desktop/mobile viewership, for instance - but it's as reliable as anything out there.
Nielsen lost their accreditation a few years ago for not being able to properly record data. You also have to opt in to their data collecting. They're completely unreliable as a metric but people still want to give them credence.
Tofudebeast2025-09-27 18:51
Nielsen can collect desktop/mobile. We were a Nielsen house several years ago. Yeah they attached their stuff to our tv, but they also wanted to put monitoring software on my laptop too. I told them that ain't happening.
antlerskull2025-09-27 11:10
No use for this information
TurbulentBullfrog8292025-09-27 11:36
Yep. All this shows is how desperate people are to watch something. Thunderbolts was great but it wasn't a lines around the block release.
I watched it about 10 days after it came out. Great movie. Who cares.
abysmallybored2025-09-27 11:19
So it flopped on streaming too, damn. Barely above The Marvels. BNW, Quantumania and Eternals all did much better.
-Posthuman-2025-09-27 12:10
Such a shame. I personally think it’s the best movie on that chart.
Creative-Improvement2025-09-27 13:27
Easily, I loved every part of it, and I haven’t had that since Shang-Chi.
I think it doesn’t have any of the big names people get hyped about, plus all of the recent Marvels aren’t that good. Marvel is playing catch up with the audience perhaps?
ogrezilla2025-09-27 15:40
I'd probably say 2nd or 3rd, but yeah the MCU doesn't have the overwhelming appeal to get people to show up for characters they don't care about at this point.
Champagnekudo2025-09-27 20:23
Thats not really saying much
chiefbrody622025-09-28 01:40
It's one of my favorite post-Endgame films.
VVantaBuddy2025-09-27 13:01
not really a complete flop but i think it should perform better.
pragmaticzach2025-09-27 15:02
I missed it in theaters but had heard it was really good, so I bought it digitally as soon as it came out - I've rewatched it several times at this point... but never on d+ because I own it elsewhere. I'd be curious what the digital sales/rent numbers were like for it, since it had good word of mouth after ending its theatrical run.
crispy_attic2025-09-27 16:21
This movie is the biggest example of cope. So many people in the echo chamber just yapping about “word of mouth” and how “fun” it was. They were just talking out of the side of their necks. This movie was not good at all and the lack of diversity hurt it at the box office imo.
Wrong-Vermicelli47232025-09-28 22:50
This kinda ends the “people are waiting for streaming” takes. Reality is no one was interested in this film
jgroove_LA2025-09-27 11:35
It 702 million minutes on Nielsen. Which is….fine. It’s been in the top 3 or 4 on D+ in the U.S. for a month….
Adorable_Ad_34782025-09-27 17:32
There used to be a time when MCU films were at the Top 1.
Comicnerd11032025-09-27 11:47
I watched it for completion's sake, but I couldn't get any of my friends to watch it. There just simply wasn't any hook.
VVantaBuddy2025-09-27 12:59
yeah, it's such a shame. Marvel is not the trend anymore so it's hard to get people watching unpopular heroes.
KrifeH2025-09-27 13:42
they could've easily made a winter soldier focused movie, i mean they had the guy right there
Heisenburgo2025-09-27 14:17
Should have straight up made Winter Soldier the next Cap
TheFunkytownExpress2025-09-27 15:00
Yeah IDK the way they left him at Endgame he was still too messed in the head, but I agree, I thought it would have been WAY more compelling to have him be the next Cap instead of Sam since Sam never really got developed as a character, and on his own he's just too bland and uninteresting sad to say.
bullwinkle80882025-09-27 16:49
My wife says he is too short after seeing him in person. I did get a good laugh out of that.
Holovoid2025-09-27 17:44
Anthony Mackie is really strange to me because in some movies he's incredible, and then in Marvel he's just kinda bland. Same with Season 2 of Altered Carbon - I didn't buy him as the lead and he just wasn't as good or engaging as Joel Kinnaman was in S1.
But like, I *know* he's a great actor because I've seen him be great. Maybe its just stuff he doesn't find enjoyable that he isn't good in.
Kaos39742025-09-27 14:24
Yelena is a far more interesting, emotional and complex protagonist
SuccinctEarth072025-09-27 14:55
Winter soldier was heavily advertised to be in the film and was in all the trailers, I'm not sure what reason there is to think a solo winter soldier film would have been much more popular
Kaos39742025-09-27 14:56
Agreed, and even if it was more popular I doubt it would’ve been better than what we got
silverBruise_322025-09-27 16:52
There's no way of knowing how well a Bucky-led movie would actually do. He was heavily advertised, but word got out soon that he actually wasn't in there that much. So, if he was a hook, he wasn't for long.
labbla2025-09-27 17:19
The thing with Bucky is The Winter Soldier is a cool villain, but Bucky is just a bland action guy.
Holovoid2025-09-27 17:42
I'm certain that a competent writer and director could make a compelling and interesting movie with Bucky Barnes.
Markus28222025-09-27 13:13
A new avengers team isn’t a hook enough for casuals?
Comicnerd11032025-09-27 13:47
I mean to be fair except for Winter Soldier (who let's be honest, fell off a long time ago) and Sentry (unknown to my friends but my personal favourite) who else was there to look forward to ?
Microwave12132025-09-27 16:03
Well for the people who actually saw the Black Widow movie and the Hawkeye TV show, Yelena and the Red Guardian were big draws, because they were easily the best part of those two things.
The_Second_Best2025-09-27 14:17
Yes, that's the problem.
People just don't care about anything new in the franchise now, as seen by the F4 and Thunderbolts box office.
Relativly good films with strong reviews and some big name actors in them and they didn't make the money Disney would have hoped for. This could be the first year since Iron Man 1 where there isn't a MCU film in the top 10 WW box office.
eBICgamer20102025-09-27 14:23
And compound with actual growing interest in manga yeah it's undeniable.
Demon Slayer, an R-Rated, 2D animated, comic book adaptation of the dark fantasy manga of the same name made more money at the box office worldwide than Fantastic Four. Sony Japan also made it on a peanut budget but that's another story.
The alarm bell should be way past the sounding the alarm part.
AnOnlineHandle2025-09-27 17:40
I think it's more a sign that people just don't care about the entire franchise after how badly it fumbled the ball with core stuff like Love & Thunder, Multiverse of Madness, Secret Invasion, and Quantamania, plus an overwhelming amount of middling TV shows which felt very oddly edited and cut up, with a few good ones such as WandaVision and Agatha All Along.
Heisenburgo2025-09-27 14:19
A new Avengers team composed by a bunch of depressed losers almost all of which have some variation of the same bland Captain America and Black Widow powersets? You're right its not a hook for casuals at all.
stopthemeyham2025-09-27 14:38
That and the fact that it's all become just one liner PG Deadpool. I have no issues with the occasional joke, one liner, funny moment, at all. But when there's characters whose entire thing is that, it gets old fast. Red guy, whatever the fuck his name is, is pure annoyance. It feels like they're trying to lean more in to that recently, and it feels forced.
TheFunkytownExpress2025-09-27 14:59
You tell them it's basically an A24 movie but with superheroes.
Comicnerd11032025-09-27 15:01
I wouldn't go that far, it was alright.
ogrezilla2025-09-27 15:37
I liked it quite a bit, but it is very much an MCU / superhero movie.
Jabrono2025-09-27 16:46
You tell them it’s basically The Wire but with superheros
Just make sure they haven’t actually seen The Wire
AnOnlineHandle2025-09-27 17:37
I saw it when it released on D+, but can barely remember what happened in it not long after and couldn't see myself recommending it to people. The cast was fine, but it very much felt like a filler episode of a Disney+ show.
It sadly doesn't really feel like it occupies that semi-grounded universe with stakes that Shield & the Avengers used to exist in, Valentina was basically a comedy character pulling world changing magic out of her back pocket without even trying, then having it all cleaned up. Such a big departure from a more serious linchpin character like Fury barely holding things together against the odds in the early MCU and where every rare thing was special and hard to get ahold of.
natayaway2025-09-27 18:16
There’s a hook, it’s a redemption arc, but it involves watching…
*checks notes*
Black Widow, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Ant Man 2, and Hawkeye to actually see the redemption part.
You know… these famously adored Marvel movies/TV show properties that surely would not have been missed… or ignored… or hated…
LeSnazzyGamer2025-09-27 19:45
Watching Hawkeye for no reason
nukemypup2025-09-27 21:03
don't knock the cinematic experience that is Rogers: The Musical till you've tried it.
darcmosch2025-09-27 23:50
Do you though? Each one had more than enough screen time delving into their backgrounds in the films, so I doubt you had to really watch them. Yeah it's nice but it feels standalone.
ScuzzBuckster2025-09-28 02:56
I also just... the MCU has existed for almost 20 years now. Everyone knows its connected, that's the entire conceit of a cinematic universe. The entire point is characters from projects, good or bad, converge in new products. So is it a problem now that they introduce new characters then put them together? Or should they only ever used established characters? Or should they only introduce new characters and not bring them together?? Like, what do people even want cause I see a lot of complaining with 0 real solution outside of "they should have done x" which is unproductive and meaningless feedback.
QueerDeluxe2025-09-28 09:01
I went to see it in cinemas with friends who were casual marvel fans. They didn't remember Taskmaster, Valentina or Ghost, and only vaguely remembered Walker after they mentioned him being Captain America. The other returning characters were memorable to them because they had plenty of screentime as protagonists and memorable funny lines, and one is Sebastian Stan.
guardingeatos2025-09-27 19:49
I'll get downvoted for it, but the movie was really OK...
It's better than what has been coming out, but that's already a low bar to clear. I enjoyed, but I don't see what people are seeing in this movie that they're championing it so hard.
I just saw it on D+ a couple weeks ago and I couldn't tell you what happens in the movie...
Sorry
exaviyur2025-09-28 01:23
I'm with you. I enjoyed it but people are acting like it's the best MCU film and it's a far cry from that.
bluequarz2025-09-28 15:30
I agree. It was just ok to me nothing special and I feel that if you're not interested in these characters like I was the movie has nothing else to offer
MirkwoodWanderer12025-09-28 15:33
I think because it covered mental health people gave it more passes for the negatives.
Plus people who have problems like depression etc would connect with it more easily and praise it more.
I think though it didn't go into those topics in proper depth and so was only ok as well but I can see it bringing up emotions for those people who have mental health issues.
TotallyNormalSquid2025-09-30 21:47
I felt like it was missing the third act. Really only felt like it was getting going when they had the first fight with Sentry, then the whole Void sequence was finished way too quickly. Also now it feels like Sentry is going to be a hero who will swing between incredibly useful to useless depending on what the plot needs. I hope they handle him better than that, but who knows.
bongkeydoner2025-09-27 12:48
did kimmel cancellation affect this too?
N8CCRG2025-09-27 14:01
No. Thunderbolts* released on D+ on August 27th and this chart is only measuring the first five days. The Kimmel cancellation occurred after the FCC chair threatened to punish Disney on September 18th.
TheFunkytownExpress2025-09-27 15:04
No Thunderbolts released on Disney+ way before that.
Ragnarok_6192025-09-27 13:05
So... what are the excuses now? I thought I was going insane when I watched Thunderbolts and didn't find it the holy grail and Top 5 MCU movie that people were parroting here at the time of release. It was just aggressively decent, with a very shoddy pacing. People blowed up the mental health angle, as if Marvel hadn't already done some better projects tackling the theme.
isaidwhatisaidok2025-09-27 14:03
Absolutely horrid pacing. So much happened yet not much at all. They rushed through the important bits and let us mire in the boring ones.
Ragnarok_6192025-09-27 14:05
They spent too much time on the first half. It could have been half the length, yet it could have been better thematically.
isaidwhatisaidok2025-09-27 14:23
It took them so fucking long to get out of that mountain or whatever. Just tedious. Took forever to get Bucky with the group. And then Bob is successfully manipulated/brainwashed by Julia Louis-Dreyfus over a long afternoon.
pragmaticzach2025-09-27 15:01
It does have pacing issues, but it's still one of my favorite MCU movies. That's not enough to make it a bad movie - the moment to moment scenes are still really enjoyable. Like the mountain area does take forever, but it doesn't drag to me. I've rewatched the movie several times which isn't something I would do if I found large parts of it boring.
TheFunkytownExpress2025-09-27 15:03
The 'excuse' is that it's still a great MCU movie, but after the post-Endgame stumbling and lack of heroes with any kind of draw to them, the casual audience didn't have a reason to show up even after the New Avengers reveal.
edit: 'POST-Endgame'.
eagc72025-09-27 23:31
Easy there is not a big enough draw for others to wanna see this movie, plus they are still burnt by many meh MCU films.
Immediate-Diet-80272025-09-27 13:41
lack of mainstream heroes means lack of mainstream interest.
Loafmeister2025-09-27 15:11
I do not disagree. But then what was the secret sauce for GOTG?
_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_2025-09-27 15:35
People used to go to the cinema.
AnOnlineHandle2025-09-27 17:40
GotG is a much better movie IMO, and had a way more unique concept and strong theme in its ads with the music etc.
Hot_Consideration_862025-09-27 23:18
Absolutely true, but if it had come out now, people would have skipped it. Guardians came out just as the MCU was starting to bear fruit, and the average consumer realized that this was a cultural thing.
But with the pandemic coming *right* after a satisfying conclusion to the Infinity Saga. And the subsequent rise of streaming, Marvel will just not be able to get that kind of focus again.
AnOnlineHandle2025-09-28 00:01
Other movies are still able to occasionally bring big audiences, even if not as often as before. The largest issue is that they've released some genuinely awful movies and shows such as Secret Invasion, Thor 4, Dr Strange 2, Antman 3, which has killed audience interest in the franchise and can't be undone. The story is forever broken with nonsense beyond repair as a huge chunk of it now. There's no way to get invested in that universe any more.
ogrezilla2025-09-27 15:38
better timing.
GullibleGap99662025-09-27 15:49
That was one exception, they were right about the general rule
Dan_Of_Time2025-09-27 16:09
It was 10 years ago, and it was riding the success of Phase 1.
People were still turning up for the MCU every time back then
Dezbats2025-09-27 21:42
Groot and Rocket also drew in the kids, while Thunderbolts* really doesn't have much to specifically appeal to them.
It's not bright with a lot of flashy powers. The soundtrack is fantastic, but it doesn't have the catchy pop music and hero dancing around. It's humor also isn't as goofy as Guardians.
When I saw it in theaters, two of the lines I remember getting the most laughs out of the audience were Yelena telling Bob the solution to his troubles was to push his feelings all the way down and Bucky saying he had a great life so he was totally fine when asked how he was after escaping his shame room.
Both lines where the humor comes from understanding how fucked up and wrong those statements actually are. So not exactly accessible to your average 12 year-old.
I really think people underestimate how much Thunderbolts* not being super family friendly (despite the PG-13 rating) really hurt it.
The people who saw Thunderbolts* weren't bringing their kids with them even when they loved it enough to go back a second time. That's a big chunk of the box office left behind at home.
sbursp152025-09-27 16:45
It was in the 2010’s, it’s the 2020’s now. D-List superhero’s aren’t selling tickets.
Adorable_Ad_34782025-09-27 17:13
MCU as a brand just released The Avengers. It was at peak momentum. That's also why CM made 1 bill after IW but the CM sequel bombed.
baccus832025-09-27 17:34
It came out in 2014 when people were still generally enthusiastic about the MCU and were more willingness bag to give Marvel the benefit of the doubt. And it was high concept enough to pique interest.
mayhemtime2025-09-27 18:27
GOTG stands on its own legs. It could be completely separate from the entire MCU and barely anything changes. The entire cast of characters is brand new, fresh, and intriguing.
Contrast that with Thunderbolts which takes already established characters people don't really care about. It's a spin-off about sidekicks and B-tier villains. And this concept of "questionable heroes and villains team up" has been done two times before already and it was less than stellar.
When you add the fact the MCU brand is in a much worse place than in 2014 you have a recipe for disaster. Nobody will watch a "just good" superhero movie in 2025. It needs to be about their favourite characters or it needs to be outstanding. In many ways we're back to the days before the MCU where people would only watch the Spider-Mans, the Batmans and the Supermans with everything else just being "there".
rex5432025-09-27 18:35
1. That movie came when the mcu was in a much better position than it is now.
2. Gotg had more going for it. Space movie and all.
3. This one is more of a joke, but one movie had james gunn, the other didn't.
toxikant2025-09-27 19:56
People had faith in the MCU 10 years ago, and there was also the nostalgia appeal of the soundtrack and Star-Lord's general 80s-ness. It's also generally a pretty easy sci-fi genre sell ('ragtag space rogues on the run') whereas Thunderbolts is not as clear-cut in its genre other than "superhero" from ads. It's hard to convey 'psychological character superhero drama' from commercials alone.
Darth_Kyryn2025-09-27 21:34
* It was fun, it was colorful, it had a major appeal among the average person and children.
* It had a brilliant marketing campaign that generated hype and anticipation while also making it well known before the movie even came out.
* The first Avengers movie came out 2 years ago and another was coming up the next year so people had FOMO in case there were any ties between the movies. Plus the Winter Soldier was a major critical and commercial success that came out months prior and built momentum.
* Very good word of mouth from an already large debut meant that everyone else had to go see it.
* People actually had money back then to go see movies.
Compare to Thunderbolts:
* Had major themes of depression, drugs, and child abuse with a grey atmosphere means it was not very child friendly.
* I don't even remember the marketing campaign well enough to comment on it, but it certainly wasn't brilliant.
* There hasn't been an Avengers movie in 6 years so people lost interest in keeping up with the MCU. Plus there were several major bombs prior to Thunderbolts which further killed mainstream interests.
* Much lower initial debut meant less advocates to generate interest via WoM. Also American sentiment abroad isn't exactly great which has harmed cultural exports. For example, GoG made $86 million in China compared to ~$16 million for Thunderbolts.
chiefbrody622025-09-28 01:37
The marketing campaign was great, had really entertaining trailers and first looks, without giving away too much. They had ads like fake Wheaties boxes with their faces on it, had billboards and painted ads on walls in cities. I'm confused why people are saying the advertising was bad. I agree with the rest of what you said though.
I feel like the only post-Endgame movies I saw advertised more were GotG 3, MoM and NWH.
eagc72025-09-28 02:47
I will also add another point, we already meet the characters in Thunderbolts beforehand and they didn't left a strong first impression to many outside of Bucky, thus that diminshes any interest on the movie.
kafit-bird2025-09-27 22:29
Coming out eleven years ago, mainly.
WatchOutForWizards2025-09-28 00:29
There’s an exception to every rule. In a roster of A-listers there’s room for the scrappy unknowns. GOTG worked because while on its own people may not have seen it, when you put it between Captain America and the Avengers people are gonna see it anyway and it helps that GOTG was a genuinely well made film.
When the *only* people that are on the roster are unknowns and c-listers then interest is just going to generally wane. There’s a reason why in a post-Endgame MCU movies like Thunderbolts struggle while Spider-Man still makes an easy billion.
aduong2025-09-28 07:04
Different landscape people different landscape.
crispy_attic2025-09-27 16:19
The lack of diversity hurt Thunderbolts. Nobody talks about it and it’s weird considering how some people wouldn’t shut up about forced diversity and DEI. Go figure.
eBICgamer20102025-09-27 16:59
Lack of diversity/Too much diversity affecting reception isn't a real point. It's a one-dimensional and disrespectful way of looking at art and looking at people involved in said art.
Adorable_Ad_34782025-09-27 17:19
It needed diverse powers, instead it copypasted supersoldiers.
Street_Mall95362025-09-27 14:15
Reality.
Sir_Myshkin2025-09-27 14:48
I watched it twice, so…
Herogeen2025-09-27 15:04
More proof that fans don't care about new characters.
eriverside2025-09-27 16:12
You can care about them if you know them better. Ghost? Saw her as an antagonist in 1 film then they just assumed we knew enough about her. And that was ages ago. They could have dropped hints of what she's been up to in other properties so there's a sense of continuity... Like what they did with Yelena.
Thanks to the exposition on Yelena we can easily accept her quirkiness and oddness. Even red guardian - we see in what if that he's always a goofball. In both cases it makes the characters endearing.
Ghost and USAgent just come off as brash and unappealing because we've never had a moment to see them grow or in their roles within Contessas organization.
ProductArizona2025-09-27 23:43
This is my biggest crux. You walk out of the movie liking Yelena and Bob. No one else compares to those characters. It was a complete misstep by underutilizing more than half the cast.
Yelena and Bob were the obvious stars
Then Red Guardian and USAgent had SOME moments
But Bucky, Ghost, and Taskmaster might as well not have been there....
a_o2025-09-27 15:29
No IMAX 🤷♂️
LeonardTringo2025-09-27 15:29
TIL there is a Moana 2
ogrezilla2025-09-27 15:42
there are a lot of solid Disney sequels. Moana 2 is not one of them. It was meant to be a series then got reworked into a movie and it really shows.
eriverside2025-09-27 16:05
Moana was solid. M2 .... I couldn't figure out the point. These kids movies need a villain.
ogrezilla2025-09-27 16:06
Moana 1 is great. Yeah two didn’t know what it was doing. The woman in the middle seemed interesting then she disappeared lol
No_Imagination_24902025-09-27 19:35
The sequel really missed LMM imo. The guy knows how to write a catchy song
Rexusus2025-09-27 19:23
I couldn’t tell why the second one sucked when I originally watched it, until I watched the first one again.
I can’t recall a single song from it. Sure, it sounds good, but it’s not catchy, it’s not as easy to sing along, etc
BackslidingAlt2025-09-27 21:09
Lin Manuel Miranda wrote the songs for the first one. They all sound like Hamilton songs. The sequel songs sound like someone trying to make another song that sounds like songs from the first one.
Often literally song by song. "Can I Get A Chee Hoo" was an attempt at another "You're Welcome" except that that's...not now that works.
AnOnlineHandle2025-09-27 17:41
Tbh the Disney animation sequels have generally been bad for decades. The era of straight to VHS movies is a wasteland of bad sequels.
ogrezilla2025-09-27 20:11
I guess I'm conflating them with Pixar, which has some great sequels. Though I think Frozen 2 was solid.
DayMysterious47172025-09-27 20:22
It made a billion but no one cared about it, it had less cultural impact than fan4stic
photon1701d2025-09-27 15:44
This is why RDJ broke the bank to come back. Without his presence in Doomsday, there would be far less interest as the new characters have not connected as the OG's did.
FriendlyDrummers2025-09-27 20:10
But for how long are they going to drag him through the MCU? Where is his replacement? Peter is really the only one, but being in limbo doesn't help.
SonOfRageNLove262025-09-27 20:51
Til he's 90
photon1701d2025-09-27 21:23
It's tough, RDJ had the perfect charisma for that role. Peter is not cool like Stark. Spiderman in general is a money maker and for some reason, he's not Doomsday(that we know of)
Wrong-Vermicelli47232025-09-28 22:48
Peter can’t be a replacement anyways , the Sony and marvel deal could fall apart at any time
Murdock4Mayor2025-09-27 23:49
I think we’re at serious risk of over-indexing how much the average movie-goer/non-comic book fan cares that RDJ is returning to play a non-Tony Stark character. I’m not sure how many even know that he’s returning — and I seriously worry that when he pops up as a villain in trailers, many of the normies will be confused and turned off. I recently explained that RDJ is returning but as Dr. Doom to a small group of friends and it had no draw on them. My base case continues to be that these movies roughly break even — or lose a bit of money at the box office — and Disney seriously rethinks its commitment to the franchise.
photon1701d2025-09-28 00:45
Yes, you are correct. Us die hard are will aware what is going on. The big mistake marvel made was not giving Doom any type of build up. The multiverse has been a let, which I knew it would be. There was never any crossovers between the movies to push the narrative along. Well they were doing Kang dynasty and we know what happened there...but it would have sucked still.
Shang Chi was a good movie but we have not seen him since. I'm more interested for Spiderman movie and I don't even know anything about it.
Dirigo722025-09-28 03:02
I was a big fan of the Infinity Saga and I enjoyed most of the shows, it was nice to see Marvel try new things even if they weren’t perfect.
The RDJ return feels like a panic driven money grab, it turned me off entirely. I’ve only watched a recap video of Fantastic Four but did love Thunderbolts. I realize I’m just one person and certainly the outlier among “loud” fans, but I don’t think Doomsday is going to do Endgame numbers.
The Infinity Saga was lightning in a bottle, it should be appreciated for what it was but Marvel is going to hamstring themselves if they consider any movie making less than a billion dollars a failure. Make good, if smaller character based movies, let people get to know the new stories. The phase one movies weren’t perfect blockbusters, but Marvel didn’t panic and scrap the whole things.
Sparrowsabre72025-09-30 07:38
>I don’t think Doomsday is going to do Endgame numbers.
It definitely won't. In the same way, adjusted for inflation, A New Hope is still the biggest Star Wars movie. Endgame was a special moment in time when MCU was THE movie franchise and it was a culmination of over 10 years of films.
I'll be honest though, I'm still amazed/appalled how well Avatar 2 did, years after everyone had stopped caring about it, so maybe it could surprise us.
Murdock4Mayor2025-10-01 04:46
I also took a huge L on my position that it had been way too long since Avatar came out and that few movie-goers would care about Avatar 2. Whoops.
Heisenburgo2025-09-28 04:05
> There was never any crossovers between the movies to push the narrative along.
I'm reminded of how a few years back, they released No Way Home, Dr Strange and Loki S1 at around the same time... all of them were projects that dealt with the multiverse as a central focus... and yet none of them tried to tie to each other or build up on what the preceding project established. Hell the multiverse had a different set of rules everytime it showed up in those! Really messy storytelling
moose_dad2025-09-28 05:00
Its insane when you think about it, a *multiverse* saga with *zero* crossovers.
beefwindowtreatment2025-09-28 02:54
I honestly think they've hit a creative slump. I can't wait for Shang-Chi II if it ever comes. Dudes got charisma. I was so excited for Dr. Strange II but felt let down. Same with Thor after Ragnarok. Still love the characters though and looking forward to the next ones if it happens.
joman5842025-09-28 06:42
We simply got too big. People don't want something to be as massive as endgame all the time, they prefer smaller. And having so many projects all the time really killed any love for most characters. Gotta just have like 3-4 main ones to follow at a time, and follow up with sequels soon after the first movies release. Add others in once one character finishes their movie line
crispy_attic2025-09-27 16:17
I’m have been saying for a while that this movie was not very good. I get downvoted every time I mention the lack of diversity too. The echo chamber is real here.
There are people who can’t accept Sam as Cap and many of them latched onto Thunderbolts. The John Walker posts were ridiculous. They can’t accept something they like not being successful or popular so they throw temper tantrums.
Thunderbolts is not a good movie and its struggles are a result of that.
Holiday-Doughnut-3642025-09-27 17:18
Thunderbolts has an overall positive review from critics and audience. You're little objective "Thunderbolts is not a good movie" is so close minded. There are a bunch of reasons people gave in the comments section here that actually makes sense why it underperformed.
Adorable_Ad_34782025-09-27 17:33
It needed a diverse cast with at least 1 green character.
The Avengers? Massive success. 1 green character.
GOTG? Massive success. 1 green character.
Thor 3? Massive success. 1 green character.
KoBoWC2025-09-27 16:19
It’s a bit more adult than other films here
Adorable_Ad_34782025-09-27 16:55
Yikes.
Barely above The Marvels and Snow White and still below awful films such as Haunted Mansion, Wish and CA4? Damn how Marvel Studios has fallen.
Inzanity20202025-09-27 16:59
“Once released on Streaming everyone will regret not watching it in theaters!”
Lol, where’s the goalpost move now?
Ragnarok_6192025-09-27 23:39
"I don't care if it flopped in streaming, I still love it "
You cannot outrun a massive cope.
BLAGTIER2025-09-28 07:15
That's not really cope but more (on the road to at least) healthy acceptance. Sometimes things fail and there isn't a redemption in terms of success. And you can love things that fail.
Responsible_Egg75192025-09-27 17:01
I mean, this sadly isn’t surprising. And I’m saying this as someone who LOVED the movie. It just has a lot of things working against it.
1) It isn’t the 2010s anymore. The MCU has lost the trust and interest of the general audience, so they won’t go see things simply because it’s Marvel anymore.
2) The cast of characters is made up of unknowns. BNW at least had the Captain America branding. Your average Joe is not gonna remember side characters from Ant-Man 2 and Black Widow.
I would say that a silver lining is that most people who watched the movie seemed to really enjoy it and become invested in the characters. I’m excited to see where they go in Doomsday.
teacup_tiger2025-09-27 17:30
It feels a little like the times when you were watching a really good TV series, and were always worried about the ratings.
Seriously, I think it will be fine. Maybe Doomsday will let more people discover the film. And if not, I'm sure the characters will still show up elsewhere, and at least we got this film.
TheRavenRise2025-09-27 17:33
the equivalent of? what, so ~30 million people watched the first ~20 minutes? what a useless metric
R4cco0n2025-09-27 17:42
People aren't coming back. Superheroes were very successful for a while. Before the MCU, there were zombie movies, and before that, there were vampires.
And before that, all those Breaking Bad series. The DCEU simply benefited from the success of the MCU, just like The Boys and the rest of it. Invincible, the Arrowverse, and everything else that was produced between 2008 and 2019.
All of this is just a hype that exists for a certain period of time and then disappears. You can compare it all to Pokemon Go, which also had a huge hype and you saw masses of people playing on the streets.
Such hypes simply disappear and people don't come back.
Strict-Farmer9042025-09-27 22:24
Westerns. Westerns were a massive genre that had their own section in video stores at one point and now just nobody makes them or when they do they’re a niche little thing. Superhero movies as a wave are probably crashed
Robot_boy_072025-09-28 06:16
Anddd, doesn’t mean they don’t have fan bases too. People here seem to have a hard time facing the fact that just because you are still a fan, doesn’t mean the general population is too. “I’m still a fan and my friends around me talk about it, that means it’s still popular!” Numbers say otherwise
mavajo2025-09-27 22:41
To act like superheroes were just a phase is hilarious to me. Superheroes are literally timeless. As far as I know, literally every culture in the history of mankind has had superheroes. Typically they were woven into religious contexts, but having superhuman gods and mystical beings has been a thing since the beginning of human civilization. "Superheroes" is just the term we use today. Look at Gilgamesh. He's literally a superhero, written about over 4,000 years ago.
The MCU didn't start sputtering because people got tired of superheroes. Deadpool & Wolverine literally just made $1.4 billion last year. It's the top grossing R-rated movie of all time. Spider-Man NWH grossed nearly $2 billion - literally *double* the next highest grossing movie that year, and nearly *triple* any other Hollywood release that year.
Clearly, the appetite is still there. MCU movies have just largely been mediocre post-Endgame. People showed up big for Dr. Strange and Thor, but they both sucked - and for a lot of people, that was kind of the last straw. People showed up for Guardians 3 and Black Panther 2 because they're known commodities, but folks have largely stopped showing up any the new characters because the movies and characters haven't been nearly as interesting as the MCU movies of the past.
It's not superhero hero. It's mediocre movie fatigue. People are increasingly over the movie theater experience. It's expensive as crap, and our viewing experiences at home are pretty fantastic - and you don't have to wait nearly as long anymore or venture out to a rental place to pick it up. Just be a little patient and it'll be on Disney+ - something you've already paid for and helps you avoid potentially wasting $100+ to take your family to a mediocre movie.
kafit-bird2025-09-28 02:08
\> As far as I know, literally every culture in the history of mankind has had superheroes.
Oh, come off it.
Every culture has stories about larger-than-life characters doing spectacular things, but that doesn't mean Marvel-style "superheroes." That's a description so broad, you could equally apply it to literally *any* action movie, *any* adventure movie, *any* horror movie, *any* sci-fi movie, *any* disaster movie, a *non-zero* number of comedies...
Yes, most of our stories tend to be about either remarkable people or very normal people who have to rise up and cope with remarkable circumstances. That's why we tell them. It doesn't mean *these* are going to keep dominating the box office year after year for another two decades. *That* was an aberration.
Yes, the MCU was a phase. It was a very long-lasting phase, it meant a lot to a lot of people, and it made many billions of dollars. Be happy with that.
MillyMan1052025-09-27 17:53
Expected more people to watch it to be honest but I can't say I'm surprised you need to watch Blackwidow, Hawkeye, Ant-Man 2 and Falcon & the Winter Soldier to have the full picture.
It's a really good movie but unfortunately Thunderbolts just doesn't have that natural draw like other groups.
CaptHayfever2025-09-27 18:38
You don't, though. Maybe Black Widow, but the rest of the character info you need *for* Thunderbolts is provided *in* Thunderbolts.
People watched The Avengers without having seen the previous movies & understood it. This is the same thing, except now clickbaiters are telling people they *can't* understand it anymore even before the movie opens, & a lie can travel around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes.
Poku1152025-09-27 23:24
I mean John is watered down as there's no mention of why he killed the terrorist, no mention of Lamar or the state he was in right after taking the serum.
And comparing the og avengers to this colorless cast of soldiers and spys is such a cope. You are seeing that people don't care, but they still care for say Spiderman, deadpool, wolverine.
Just cause you are engaged with this characters doesn't mean they are too everyone else
CaptHayfever2025-09-27 23:46
"People aren't engaged with these characters" is a different criticism than "you need to watch all this other stuff first". Don't move the goalposts.
thevokplusminus2025-09-27 18:41
Turned it off after the first scene. Marvel Humor^TM is like nails on the chalkboard for me
SeekerVash2025-09-27 19:22
The other interesting figure in here is The Marvels. People here insist The Marvels made a massive amount of money on streaming, but here we see that it was very low viewership on streaming as well as theaters.
Heisenburgo2025-09-28 04:16
People had no interest in watching THE biggest box office flop of all time when it came to streaming? Colour me shocked.
BLAGTIER2025-09-28 07:41
> People here insist The Marvels made a massive amount of money on streaming, but here we see that it was very low viewership on streaming as well as theaters.
The data(a month after Disney+ release) was always there. Particularly Guardians of The Galaxy 3, The Haunted Mansion and Elemental with the same year of release(in cinemas) doing much better. The Marvels superfans just took the headline of The Marvels #1 at streaming(for a single week) and ran with it without engaging with the data. Which was there and easy to find.
MickCollins2025-09-27 19:27
I saw it in the movies so there wasn't a need for a rewatch when I saw it so recently. I mean I enjoyed it but it's not a rewatch 10x film...
Wooden-Radish-90082025-09-27 20:47
Why are people howling that this is bombing? These numbers are only for the first five days and the movie has been sitting firmly in Disney+ daily top 10 since it released...in fact, it's still there now. Like it's number 3...and that's only because Marvel Zombies and Elio just dropped and are taking the 1 and 2 spots
teacup_tiger2025-09-27 20:52
That's a really good point. Thanks for adjusting our perspectives here.
storksghast2025-09-27 21:58
Hey buddy? All the other movies in the linked chart are also "only for the first five days". So you have that to compare it to. It did worse than AM3 and only a little better than the Marvels. Now look at Vol 3 and Wakanda Forever.
Poku1152025-09-27 23:27
? Because it is bombing, if those are the numbers on its first five days, and is now dropping on the top, that means it is being passed up.
Besides we dont even know what type of people this is reaching, theres lots of people in this thread talking about how they streamed tb on disney + just as background noise to support it and let Disney know they want more, so its not really extending from the niche audience it already reached. A bit if this could be manufactured viewership to support personal preferences
CaptHayfever2025-09-28 00:45
> Why are people howling that this is bombing?
Because this thread is being brigaded by doomer trolls.
Imaginary_Ambition782025-09-27 20:50
I rly liked the film but I know that I'm not the only one who wanted it to be more like Captain America:The Winter Soldier. I loved the film but bucky got like 2 badass scenes when all the fans want is bucky being badass, but no, marvel doesnt give us that.
Still a good film, I loved bob
teacup_tiger2025-09-27 20:54
*fingers crossed* Bucky gets some good action scenes in Doomsday. That said - the scene where he comes to "save" the others with the motorcycle is genuinely iconic. And he's the one who realizes first that Bob beating himself up is not good.
Imaginary_Ambition782025-09-27 21:01
The motorcycle scene is exactly what I wanted I just wish we had more of that
teacup_tiger2025-09-27 21:06
I get that. As far as I understand it, they actually made his role bigger, it was smaller in the original script. I don't really know why they don't get what they have in him, that people would watch movies for Bucky, if only they made clear that he is a main character. I hope they do better with him in Doomsday and Secret Wars, and however long Seb wants to play him after that.
Imaginary_Ambition782025-09-27 21:11
I doubt they'll.give him much to do in Doomsday but yeah maybe after that they will..or maybe not. Just give me a prequel WS film atp and I'll be happy. More bucky!
teacup_tiger2025-09-27 21:13
More Bucky!
vim_deezel2025-09-28 01:50
yep seems like that level of "CGI and effects" works well when the CGI still isn't quite read for skyscraper/continent shattering level comic book heroes. Street level goes hard, and we can all relate to thing like cars, cables motorcycles, etc, and the physics can be done well in CGI, plus most people love winter soldier's look and fight choreography.
405mon2025-09-28 13:18
> others with the motorcycle is genuinely iconic.
It is, but it feels like they also showed pretty much that whole scene in the trailers. He needed more time to be badass and also more scenes interacting with the other Thunderbolts.
Wrong-Vermicelli47232025-09-28 22:49
It was also just missing something, good film but there really nothing “must watch” about it
Brees5042025-09-27 21:19
So extremely bad lol
TheJack0fDiamonds2025-09-27 21:32
Love seeing Eternals so closely trailing GOTG3 and DS2. I still believe alot of people highkey regret missing it at the cinemas.
greenergarlic2025-09-27 21:59
oof, below the Wish line is rough
Lady05giggles2025-09-27 22:10
Disney did this to themselves. If you encourage people to watch movies on Disney+ instead of theaters, then this needs to count.
regalfronde2025-09-28 08:27
But these numbers are bad too. This points to a lack of interest rather than just people waiting.
superpowers3352025-09-27 22:52
That's a real shame but I can't say I'm surprised. Wait... Where's Deadpool and Wolverine?
teacup_tiger2025-09-28 00:41
The chart is for "Theatrical films released on a Wednesday on Disney +". It's also only for the first five days, the movie is still in 3rd place of their charts, and it's been on a month.
Poku1152025-09-27 23:17
But I thought everyone and their dogs would regret not watching thunderbolts on theaters and give it a watch on d+ because the droves of fans that talked about it positively!
Do I get to say i told you so yet? Or will they move the goalposts again lol
eagc72025-09-27 23:35
For me i am surprised it didn't do big on streaming either, while there are def gonna be people that will check it on streaming, one of the things we have to remember is that people are still burnt by MCU films so they aren't gonna see the newer film regardless. Plus there is still the issue that this stars characters that didn't left a strong impression to others, so they will be less inclined to see it, plus there are still people that don't wanna see other MCU shows/movies just to "understand" one film.
Poku1152025-09-27 23:36
I mean they showed up to Deadpool and wolverine, they will show up for characters they care about, they just dont care about temu avengers
eagc72025-09-27 23:42
Yeah, kinda like i said in the past one of the big big disavantages that this film had is that we already meet all of these characters and outside of Bucky, people were left "Meh" about all of them. Cause lets take films like Guardians of the Galaxy for example, yeah this is a movie with a bunch of characters nobody cares about, but we had a strong first impression right out of the gate, so now people care about them and are beloved
I think Thunderbolts could've had a decent chance if Red Guardian, John Walker, Yelena and Ghost had left a strong impression with the fans and general audience when we first meet them in their prior projects, but that didn't happen.
deemoorah2025-09-28 06:33
Bucky is not the exception, Bucky is just a major supporting character from the captain America franchise. He might have a big online presence but he's just a sidekick for casuals
aduong2025-09-28 07:11
I’m not surprised. These movies (big blockbusters) performances are pretty predictable once they launch. A mid opening weekend will more than likely translate into a mid box office finish then a mid pvod performance then mid streaming numbers. The opposite is also true a box office hit will likely also be a streaming hit.
People will always throw x y z as examples of movies that blew up on streaming but they’re highlighted for a reason they’re exceptions not the rule. Also they tend to be family movies which have a babysitting quality to them(When kids love a movie they could watch it on loop for days if not week)
Elnino382025-09-28 01:57
This subs in for a rude awakening when doomsday doesnt hit a billion
juniorp762025-09-28 03:16
I downloaded it and will be watching on an upcoming flight. There is no need to watch stuff right away anymore
mads4152025-09-28 03:40
I never see people hate on and doom talk about the MCU more than people in this subreddit… so annoying to see and u don’t know why I come on here anymore as a fan…
CygnsX-12025-09-28 04:18
I enjoyed it.
bluequarz2025-09-28 15:21
Casual fans and gp don't care for all these new characters Marvel is trying to introduce and make main characters in the MCU hence why they're bringing back lots of old faces for the next Avengers movies.
That being said they're taking a hell of a gamble marketing Doomsday only on Thunderbolts, underperforming Avengers ( Sam Shang Chi Ant Man) and F4 who also underwhelmed. I don't think old X Men are that big a draw either especially internationally. It's basically only RDJ and to a lesser extent Hemsworth and Hiddleston as draws there that they've been open about so far and I'm not sure that's enough ( and Evans according to rumors but it seems they want to keep his return firmly hidden) . If they're really keeping Spidey Strange Wanda Wolverine Deadpool for the next movie I see a world where Doomsday underperforms because I don't see gp getting excited to see that set of heroes fight Doom/each other.
TelenorTheGNP2025-09-29 04:05
Good grief, that movie deserves better than that. I've watched it twice in the last two weeks.
Commentaires
[In fact the person behind this was in this reporting game for more than a decade.](https://substack.com/@netflixandchiffres?utm_source=about-page) We're still taking numbers from the French newsletter at face value.
Nielsen lost their accreditation a few years ago for not being able to properly record data. You also have to opt in to their data collecting. They're completely unreliable as a metric but people still want to give them credence.
I watched it about 10 days after it came out. Great movie. Who cares.
I think it doesn’t have any of the big names people get hyped about, plus all of the recent Marvels aren’t that good. Marvel is playing catch up with the audience perhaps?
But like, I *know* he's a great actor because I've seen him be great. Maybe its just stuff he doesn't find enjoyable that he isn't good in.
People just don't care about anything new in the franchise now, as seen by the F4 and Thunderbolts box office.
Relativly good films with strong reviews and some big name actors in them and they didn't make the money Disney would have hoped for. This could be the first year since Iron Man 1 where there isn't a MCU film in the top 10 WW box office.
Demon Slayer, an R-Rated, 2D animated, comic book adaptation of the dark fantasy manga of the same name made more money at the box office worldwide than Fantastic Four. Sony Japan also made it on a peanut budget but that's another story.
The alarm bell should be way past the sounding the alarm part.
Just make sure they haven’t actually seen The Wire
It sadly doesn't really feel like it occupies that semi-grounded universe with stakes that Shield & the Avengers used to exist in, Valentina was basically a comedy character pulling world changing magic out of her back pocket without even trying, then having it all cleaned up. Such a big departure from a more serious linchpin character like Fury barely holding things together against the odds in the early MCU and where every rare thing was special and hard to get ahold of.
*checks notes*
Black Widow, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Ant Man 2, and Hawkeye to actually see the redemption part.
You know… these famously adored Marvel movies/TV show properties that surely would not have been missed… or ignored… or hated…
It's better than what has been coming out, but that's already a low bar to clear. I enjoyed, but I don't see what people are seeing in this movie that they're championing it so hard.
I just saw it on D+ a couple weeks ago and I couldn't tell you what happens in the movie...
Sorry
Plus people who have problems like depression etc would connect with it more easily and praise it more.
I think though it didn't go into those topics in proper depth and so was only ok as well but I can see it bringing up emotions for those people who have mental health issues.
edit: 'POST-Endgame'.
But with the pandemic coming *right* after a satisfying conclusion to the Infinity Saga. And the subsequent rise of streaming, Marvel will just not be able to get that kind of focus again.
People were still turning up for the MCU every time back then
It's not bright with a lot of flashy powers. The soundtrack is fantastic, but it doesn't have the catchy pop music and hero dancing around. It's humor also isn't as goofy as Guardians.
When I saw it in theaters, two of the lines I remember getting the most laughs out of the audience were Yelena telling Bob the solution to his troubles was to push his feelings all the way down and Bucky saying he had a great life so he was totally fine when asked how he was after escaping his shame room.
Both lines where the humor comes from understanding how fucked up and wrong those statements actually are. So not exactly accessible to your average 12 year-old.
I really think people underestimate how much Thunderbolts* not being super family friendly (despite the PG-13 rating) really hurt it.
The people who saw Thunderbolts* weren't bringing their kids with them even when they loved it enough to go back a second time. That's a big chunk of the box office left behind at home.
Contrast that with Thunderbolts which takes already established characters people don't really care about. It's a spin-off about sidekicks and B-tier villains. And this concept of "questionable heroes and villains team up" has been done two times before already and it was less than stellar.
When you add the fact the MCU brand is in a much worse place than in 2014 you have a recipe for disaster. Nobody will watch a "just good" superhero movie in 2025. It needs to be about their favourite characters or it needs to be outstanding. In many ways we're back to the days before the MCU where people would only watch the Spider-Mans, the Batmans and the Supermans with everything else just being "there".
2. Gotg had more going for it. Space movie and all.
3. This one is more of a joke, but one movie had james gunn, the other didn't.
* It had a brilliant marketing campaign that generated hype and anticipation while also making it well known before the movie even came out.
* The first Avengers movie came out 2 years ago and another was coming up the next year so people had FOMO in case there were any ties between the movies. Plus the Winter Soldier was a major critical and commercial success that came out months prior and built momentum.
* Very good word of mouth from an already large debut meant that everyone else had to go see it.
* People actually had money back then to go see movies.
Compare to Thunderbolts:
* Had major themes of depression, drugs, and child abuse with a grey atmosphere means it was not very child friendly.
* I don't even remember the marketing campaign well enough to comment on it, but it certainly wasn't brilliant.
* There hasn't been an Avengers movie in 6 years so people lost interest in keeping up with the MCU. Plus there were several major bombs prior to Thunderbolts which further killed mainstream interests.
* Much lower initial debut meant less advocates to generate interest via WoM. Also American sentiment abroad isn't exactly great which has harmed cultural exports. For example, GoG made $86 million in China compared to ~$16 million for Thunderbolts.
I feel like the only post-Endgame movies I saw advertised more were GotG 3, MoM and NWH.
When the *only* people that are on the roster are unknowns and c-listers then interest is just going to generally wane. There’s a reason why in a post-Endgame MCU movies like Thunderbolts struggle while Spider-Man still makes an easy billion.
Thanks to the exposition on Yelena we can easily accept her quirkiness and oddness. Even red guardian - we see in what if that he's always a goofball. In both cases it makes the characters endearing.
Ghost and USAgent just come off as brash and unappealing because we've never had a moment to see them grow or in their roles within Contessas organization.
Yelena and Bob were the obvious stars
Then Red Guardian and USAgent had SOME moments
But Bucky, Ghost, and Taskmaster might as well not have been there....
I can’t recall a single song from it. Sure, it sounds good, but it’s not catchy, it’s not as easy to sing along, etc
Often literally song by song. "Can I Get A Chee Hoo" was an attempt at another "You're Welcome" except that that's...not now that works.
Shang Chi was a good movie but we have not seen him since. I'm more interested for Spiderman movie and I don't even know anything about it.
The RDJ return feels like a panic driven money grab, it turned me off entirely. I’ve only watched a recap video of Fantastic Four but did love Thunderbolts. I realize I’m just one person and certainly the outlier among “loud” fans, but I don’t think Doomsday is going to do Endgame numbers.
The Infinity Saga was lightning in a bottle, it should be appreciated for what it was but Marvel is going to hamstring themselves if they consider any movie making less than a billion dollars a failure. Make good, if smaller character based movies, let people get to know the new stories. The phase one movies weren’t perfect blockbusters, but Marvel didn’t panic and scrap the whole things.
It definitely won't. In the same way, adjusted for inflation, A New Hope is still the biggest Star Wars movie. Endgame was a special moment in time when MCU was THE movie franchise and it was a culmination of over 10 years of films.
I'll be honest though, I'm still amazed/appalled how well Avatar 2 did, years after everyone had stopped caring about it, so maybe it could surprise us.
I'm reminded of how a few years back, they released No Way Home, Dr Strange and Loki S1 at around the same time... all of them were projects that dealt with the multiverse as a central focus... and yet none of them tried to tie to each other or build up on what the preceding project established. Hell the multiverse had a different set of rules everytime it showed up in those! Really messy storytelling
There are people who can’t accept Sam as Cap and many of them latched onto Thunderbolts. The John Walker posts were ridiculous. They can’t accept something they like not being successful or popular so they throw temper tantrums.
Thunderbolts is not a good movie and its struggles are a result of that.
The Avengers? Massive success. 1 green character.
GOTG? Massive success. 1 green character.
Thor 3? Massive success. 1 green character.
Barely above The Marvels and Snow White and still below awful films such as Haunted Mansion, Wish and CA4? Damn how Marvel Studios has fallen.
Lol, where’s the goalpost move now?
You cannot outrun a massive cope.
1) It isn’t the 2010s anymore. The MCU has lost the trust and interest of the general audience, so they won’t go see things simply because it’s Marvel anymore.
2) The cast of characters is made up of unknowns. BNW at least had the Captain America branding. Your average Joe is not gonna remember side characters from Ant-Man 2 and Black Widow.
I would say that a silver lining is that most people who watched the movie seemed to really enjoy it and become invested in the characters. I’m excited to see where they go in Doomsday.
Seriously, I think it will be fine. Maybe Doomsday will let more people discover the film. And if not, I'm sure the characters will still show up elsewhere, and at least we got this film.
And before that, all those Breaking Bad series. The DCEU simply benefited from the success of the MCU, just like The Boys and the rest of it. Invincible, the Arrowverse, and everything else that was produced between 2008 and 2019.
All of this is just a hype that exists for a certain period of time and then disappears. You can compare it all to Pokemon Go, which also had a huge hype and you saw masses of people playing on the streets.
Such hypes simply disappear and people don't come back.
The MCU didn't start sputtering because people got tired of superheroes. Deadpool & Wolverine literally just made $1.4 billion last year. It's the top grossing R-rated movie of all time. Spider-Man NWH grossed nearly $2 billion - literally *double* the next highest grossing movie that year, and nearly *triple* any other Hollywood release that year.
Clearly, the appetite is still there. MCU movies have just largely been mediocre post-Endgame. People showed up big for Dr. Strange and Thor, but they both sucked - and for a lot of people, that was kind of the last straw. People showed up for Guardians 3 and Black Panther 2 because they're known commodities, but folks have largely stopped showing up any the new characters because the movies and characters haven't been nearly as interesting as the MCU movies of the past.
It's not superhero hero. It's mediocre movie fatigue. People are increasingly over the movie theater experience. It's expensive as crap, and our viewing experiences at home are pretty fantastic - and you don't have to wait nearly as long anymore or venture out to a rental place to pick it up. Just be a little patient and it'll be on Disney+ - something you've already paid for and helps you avoid potentially wasting $100+ to take your family to a mediocre movie.
Oh, come off it.
Every culture has stories about larger-than-life characters doing spectacular things, but that doesn't mean Marvel-style "superheroes." That's a description so broad, you could equally apply it to literally *any* action movie, *any* adventure movie, *any* horror movie, *any* sci-fi movie, *any* disaster movie, a *non-zero* number of comedies...
Yes, most of our stories tend to be about either remarkable people or very normal people who have to rise up and cope with remarkable circumstances. That's why we tell them. It doesn't mean *these* are going to keep dominating the box office year after year for another two decades. *That* was an aberration.
Yes, the MCU was a phase. It was a very long-lasting phase, it meant a lot to a lot of people, and it made many billions of dollars. Be happy with that.
It's a really good movie but unfortunately Thunderbolts just doesn't have that natural draw like other groups.
People watched The Avengers without having seen the previous movies & understood it. This is the same thing, except now clickbaiters are telling people they *can't* understand it anymore even before the movie opens, & a lie can travel around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes.
And comparing the og avengers to this colorless cast of soldiers and spys is such a cope. You are seeing that people don't care, but they still care for say Spiderman, deadpool, wolverine.
Just cause you are engaged with this characters doesn't mean they are too everyone else
The data(a month after Disney+ release) was always there. Particularly Guardians of The Galaxy 3, The Haunted Mansion and Elemental with the same year of release(in cinemas) doing much better. The Marvels superfans just took the headline of The Marvels #1 at streaming(for a single week) and ran with it without engaging with the data. Which was there and easy to find.
Besides we dont even know what type of people this is reaching, theres lots of people in this thread talking about how they streamed tb on disney + just as background noise to support it and let Disney know they want more, so its not really extending from the niche audience it already reached. A bit if this could be manufactured viewership to support personal preferences
Because this thread is being brigaded by doomer trolls.
Still a good film, I loved bob
It is, but it feels like they also showed pretty much that whole scene in the trailers. He needed more time to be badass and also more scenes interacting with the other Thunderbolts.
Do I get to say i told you so yet? Or will they move the goalposts again lol
I think Thunderbolts could've had a decent chance if Red Guardian, John Walker, Yelena and Ghost had left a strong impression with the fans and general audience when we first meet them in their prior projects, but that didn't happen.
People will always throw x y z as examples of movies that blew up on streaming but they’re highlighted for a reason they’re exceptions not the rule. Also they tend to be family movies which have a babysitting quality to them(When kids love a movie they could watch it on loop for days if not week)
That being said they're taking a hell of a gamble marketing Doomsday only on Thunderbolts, underperforming Avengers ( Sam Shang Chi Ant Man) and F4 who also underwhelmed. I don't think old X Men are that big a draw either especially internationally. It's basically only RDJ and to a lesser extent Hemsworth and Hiddleston as draws there that they've been open about so far and I'm not sure that's enough ( and Evans according to rumors but it seems they want to keep his return firmly hidden) . If they're really keeping Spidey Strange Wanda Wolverine Deadpool for the next movie I see a world where Doomsday underperforms because I don't see gp getting excited to see that set of heroes fight Doom/each other.