It's time to accept that the cast of "The Chairs" is the main and definitive cast of Avengers Doomsday.
Will there be cameos like Red Skull in Infinity War or Howard Stark in Endgame? Maybe, but to think that what we've seen so far is just "the supporting cast" and that they'll only film the real, fan-service-packed version later is ridiculous.
Filming lasted almost six months, always with the same characters we saw in the livestream. In Hong Kong, it was confirmed that the core groups will be the Avengers, X-Men, and Fantastic Four, and even the production team's merchandise supports this. Do you really think Marvel spent half a year filming only with supporting characters and the villain, just to now start with the supposed "real cast"?
I think it's unfair how this cast has been downplayed. I've read comments like "it's the worst cast I've ever seen" or "it doesn't have any big names." Really? The X-Men are huge on their own, Shang-Chi was one of the most beloved characters in Phase 4, Thor and Loki are confirmed, and RDJ, along with the Avengers brand, always draws in audiences.
Besides, this cast reflects what we've already seen in recent movies, and I prefer that they focus on what they have instead of discarding it to rely solely on Tobey Maguire or similar actors. The plot was written with these characters in mind, not with cameos. Besides, the appearance of one character isn't going to be the difference between success or failure.
In the end, the discussion about the Doomsday cast seems more like a whim of people who just want fan service to shout about in the theater, when it's impossible to manage 80 characters and make them relevant to the story. Marvel was already criticized for prioritizing "quantity over quality," and just when they seem to be prioritizing quality, now it seems many are asking for the exact opposite: pure fan service even if the story doesn't make sense.
Filming lasted almost six months, always with the same characters we saw in the livestream. In Hong Kong, it was confirmed that the core groups will be the Avengers, X-Men, and Fantastic Four, and even the production team's merchandise supports this. Do you really think Marvel spent half a year filming only with supporting characters and the villain, just to now start with the supposed "real cast"?
I think it's unfair how this cast has been downplayed. I've read comments like "it's the worst cast I've ever seen" or "it doesn't have any big names." Really? The X-Men are huge on their own, Shang-Chi was one of the most beloved characters in Phase 4, Thor and Loki are confirmed, and RDJ, along with the Avengers brand, always draws in audiences.
Besides, this cast reflects what we've already seen in recent movies, and I prefer that they focus on what they have instead of discarding it to rely solely on Tobey Maguire or similar actors. The plot was written with these characters in mind, not with cameos. Besides, the appearance of one character isn't going to be the difference between success or failure.
In the end, the discussion about the Doomsday cast seems more like a whim of people who just want fan service to shout about in the theater, when it's impossible to manage 80 characters and make them relevant to the story. Marvel was already criticized for prioritizing "quantity over quality," and just when they seem to be prioritizing quality, now it seems many are asking for the exact opposite: pure fan service even if the story doesn't make sense.
Commentaires
Unfortunately, no. Movies that reveal major things in trailers tend to get higher sales. People like to know exactly what their getting before going in
Look at the movie trailers for things in the 30s and 40s, where a narrator often described 80% of the plot and twists.
Or the [first trailer for Cast Away](https://youtu.be/K8L0m9HeXBE?si=m8NTzWtAziK0Il4B), which is basically the movie from beginning to end, including ~~when Tom Hanks gets off the island~~, and even the final shot of the film.
They don't need what they watch to be spoiler-free, because that's not why their watching
They might be there on time, they might be there with 10 min left in the movie. The theater just started it over after it was done so if they wanted to watch the first part they just stuck around
Fucking crazy.
With linear experiences like movies, books, or anything like that, if I'm consuming it for the first time, I'm just taking it in super passively, sure I can pay attention and be active in things like a murder mystery or something like that, but for the most part I'm along for the ride. Movie's over, great, that was a good movie, I wanna watch it again. Next time I watch it, I pay attention to more things cause I already know what's going to happen, and then I focus on the deeper dialog meanings, the background events, the structure of the story, or w/e.
See, it's kinda like video game speedrunning. In order to achieve that level of mastery, you would need to have played the game over and over and over again, but each time would likely be far more enjoyable because you're constantly getting new things from it.
You know those huge movie analysis videos that talk about directors choosing the lighting or how one scene mirrors another or the full timeline of events in a movie or even just those "Endgame from Thanos's POV is pretty weird" type of videos? It's because they've watched it over and over and are capable of analyzing it.
So... if someone spoils the movie for me, let's say, "Hey, in this movie, character X dies." so I watch the movie, and weirdly, all the death flags are pointing to character Y. Normally, I'd think Y dies, but now I can see the foreshadowing of how X would die. Maybe they talk about enjoying life more, or show off how selfless they are and would take a bullet for a friend, while still focusing the death foreshadowing on Y as a misdirect. Well now I can focus on X since I KNOW they are going to die, and go "Huh... I wonder how they'll pull that off."
This is generally why I thought Red Hulk was technically done fairly well in BNW in terms of the pacing and buildup to Red Hulk specifically, and how they handled Ross (sure, I think some cut scenes should've been in, but in the movie itself, it was decent). The slow buildup, the "Oh, THAT'S what those pills are for" moment, the foreshadowing of Ross's stress and his character in general. The problem? The trailers spoiled it so people basically went in the way I would go in with spoilers, knowing Red Hulk was coming, seeing "Oh those pills must turn him into Red Hulk", but seeing it as a negative because "I already know about this." Which is understandable, people probably were expecting something the trailers didn't show.
I am not like that though, I try to judge the movie on its own and if the trailers hadn't spoiled Red Hulk, I probably would've watched the movie a second time to appreciate the Red Hulk buildup. The trailer just... already did the "first watch" for me.
the world was so huge at the time (and still is), but access was finite. research would be done through source material - video and comic stores, maybe libraries, and word of mouth from somebody who "knew" (and was this even true?)
episodes were an event unless the vcr was set to record. few years later - internet - fact checking - more time passed - spoilers - addiction to being in the know - information super highway (wasn't kidding) - be the first to know what's going to happen - all this to be able to read/predict the story before it happens - gratification quickly evolves into instant gratification - and today almost everybody has a handheld super computer
Man of Steel's Burger King spot was the last one of those that really stood out to me. Maybe some Deadpool & Wolverine stuff too.
Not true. You see the trailer, you get excited and hyped. Then you go see it. If there are big surprises you love it and come away feeling good about it. If you saw all the important, cool stuff in the trailer, you come away feeling flat or cheated.
Movies that show everything in the trailer get higher sales because the trailer was awesome, and, most likely, because there was a tonne of promo. Sadly, your version is likely what the disney executives will see.
I will watch a couple trailers then just avoid everything. Not sure why people want to be spoiled so badly.
Autistic Redditor: “we can believe whatever we want to believe this is Reddit, not the court of law”
Me: “I mean it’s still not a fact”
Autistic reddior: “you bootlicking bitch”
Cause outside of them we got the F4 who struggled to reach 500 mil. And a whole lot of heroes who couldn’t even do that.
a wrench into it.
I do expect to get Monica, Maria, Carol, Steve and sigh Peggy outside of them I doubt there is any big additions.
If Wanda does show up feels like that be at the end. Same for strange.
Also missing the iconic x ladies.
Like when u have existing OGs, why go for successors and then the other more standalone ladies got relegated to TV shows, you have to sacrifice them if you want more mainstream appeal movie, which is what MCU currently needs.
The only surprising missing ones are Jean Grey, Storm and Carol. Jean Grey, Carol I personally explain it by them wanting to up the stakes and these two are too powerful for that..
But Storm I don't understand... Is Halle Berry too expensive?!? "
And while Thunderbolts underperformed, it still more than doubled The Marvels domestic box office?
And that critical and fan reception on Thunderbolts* was overwhelmingly positive compared to The Marvels (despite also having a female lead) in spite of its underperforming?
[‘X-Men’ Star Halle Berry Shuts Down Hopes She Might Return as Storm for ‘Avengers: Doomsday’: “Keep Waiting. Not Gonna Be There.” : r/marvelstudios](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/1jqn129/xmen_star_halle_berry_shuts_down_hopes_she_might/)
It's not a surprise, they shafted her character in the first X-Men, and then defrauded her into signing the third one. She's had a lot of bad experiences with X-Men.
If we have Monica, that probably means Carol and Kamala, and if we have Kamala that likely means more Young Avengers like Kate and Cassie.
The movie bombed, so badly it set industry records in bombing. They aren't going to tie their "Absolutely cannot fail" movie to the movie that held the industry record in failure and rejection.
The General Audience's take away is that in order to watch Doomsday they have to watch a movie they already chose not to see. That's one of the fastest ways possible to tank Doomsday's box office.
All my friends that are casual MCU fans compared to me all HATED the Marvel’s and never bothered to watch Kamala’s show. A couple of them watched the first episode, but they all noped out pretty quick.
Unfortunately they are just characters that don’t mean a lot to casual moviegoers.
edit: none of the Marvels actually
That being said. I really hope that they have some more additions to the cast (at least for secret wars). For example, Monica Rambaeu, America Chavez, Captain Marvel, Ms Marvel, Scarlet Witch, Kate Bishop, Wasp, Sylvie, etc would be very welcome additions.
I think the X-Men are really lacking, too: where's Storm? Rogue? Jean? Will we see new versions of them or maybe even Kitty? I don't know, when I think X-Men I don't think "Cyclops, Nightcrawler, Mystique, and Gambit (who was funny in DP&W, but I don't need a straight-faced version of).
Thus far we have no magic representation at all in a movie about a villainous sorcerer, either, which feels glaring.
Anyway, it is what it is. We'll see how the movie goes.
As for the X-Men ones, they also happen to be the most disliked characters and the cast is also pretty stacked. Keep in mind, they didn’t bring back Colossus or Bobby yet so this isn’t a women issue.
Yeah, the ones I listed as part of the younger cast of heroes... you have no reason to think this is an Age of Ultron level movie, you're just talking out your ass to defend a movie you haven't seen. Those are new, relatively popular characters who represent Phase 4 and Phase 5, and who would be fun to see in the big end-phase smash-'em-up.
I'm not saying the movie will be bad, but there's a really legitimate reason people see this pretty mundane line-up of characters after all that time and investment in post-Endgame MCU and think "this is it?" And speculate accordingly.
Most of the questions are already answered in the movies themselves: the Spider-Men don't appear because Holland's sacrifice prevented incursions from their universes (and Tobey and Andrew don't even know the Avengers). Wanda died in Multiverse of Madness. Deadpool and Wolverine are doing their own thing. With Moon Knight, Marc and Steven believe they are free of Khonshu.
There are also external factors: the actress who plays Rogue is reportedly in poor health, there are complications with Kitty Pryde due to Elliot Page's gender transition, and other characters simply wouldn't fit the plot, like Werewolf by Night or the Young Avengers, who apparently will have their own place in Battleworld.
Yes, this saga has been chaotic, and that was very bad, but at least the Doomsday cast is consistent with what the MCU has shown us recently.
In a video shared by actor Chris Hemsworth, he indicated that the TVA will indeed make an appearance. However, in Loki, characters like B-15, Mobius, and others were already considered supporting characters, a role they seem to be playing again in Doomsday. I can understand why they weren't given seats or included in the promotional materials.
I would say that the only characters whose absence would be surprising are Carol, Monica, and Strange, considering how their stories ended. But in those cases, it's likely that their appearances are meant to be surprises that are being kept secret.
If the TVA cast are supporting characters, so is M'Baku, but they went out of their way to announce his return. And the point is that the cast needs to be announced, the official confirmation of the TVA characters would at least signify that stuff is connecting, and Loki is one of the most well-received Marvel projects ever made so if anything, that would at least catch the attention of a few people.
But why? Keeping their appearances a secret does more damage and just pours fuel into the online narrative that Marvel is just winging it and nothing from the Multiverse Saga was important, those 3 characters being officially announced would go a long way in showing that the connectivity is very much present.
I don't think M'Baku is comparable to the TVA cast. First of all, in terms of their filmography, the Loki cast only appeared in their series and in Deadpool & Wolverine (and only B-15 in that one). M'Baku appeared in both Black Panther movies, Infinity War, and Endgame, and in Wakanda Forever he was almost a main character, and he ends up becoming the King of Wakanda. It makes sense that they announced him along with the others for that reason.
And yes, it's true that if those three are the "surprise characters," it would seem odd why they weren't announced from the beginning, but I suppose Marvel had its reasons. Perhaps they aren't that relevant to the plot (besides rescuing Monica, I don't see what else Carol can contribute to the story), and with Strange, his involvement was left in limbo; they could literally come up with anything, and that could be the surprise (maybe he appears as an ally of Doom).
I think we just have to wait and see.
Are we forgetting that Infinity War and End Game didnt have the whole collection of heroes until the end?
And i think its pretty obvious that other characters will show up in this, they just wont be the plot driving ones.
Secret Wars will have the big End Game draw, assuming it even gets made if this Doomsday doesnt make $2B at the box office....
Which isn't a thing, even on regular blockbusters, you don't get a full cast list until the film is out and cameos have been filled in on IMDB.
I guarantee there are 5 - 20 more characters in this film that aren't mentioned.
Also isn't it a pretty well recognized fact that Marvel skillfully split the screen time of characters between IW and EG? Those who had more screentime in IW got snapped which gave more room to the other characters in EG.
I'm expecting something a bit similar with Doomsday and Secret War, whoever isn't really there this time will have better screentime in the next movie.
> That was 7 months and three box office failures ago.
...which is a lie for 2 reasons:
1) First Steps was not a box-office failure.
2) The chair reveals & RDJ's statement were *after* Brave New World, not before.
Marvel Studios’ Instagram account also said “there’s always room for more.” So we know more are coming, we just don’t know who and by extension how important they’ll be.
Also, Steve had less than 7 minutes of screen time in Infinity War and was still a memorable part of that movie. In comparison, Tony was about triple that. It’s what you do with the time that matters.
I actually can’t believe this was all under 7 minutes if what they’re claiming is true. But I guess it boils down to each moment his face was on screen.
If Doomsday tries to be Infinity War, the way it seems like many in this fandom want it to be, then it will fail. The major characters in Infinity War had lots of previous significant appearances in other movies, and several team-ups already. Sam's Avengers haven't even appeared together yet, and out of the entire Doomsday cast, only Yelena has appeared in more than 2 projects in this saga (two movies and one show). The rest have appeared in 2, 1 or 0 projects prior.
In order to work, this movie needs to be highly focused on the characters, and that almost certainly means a) killing off the X-Men quickly and b) focusing a lot on Sam's Avengers (maybe make it feel more like Avengers 1) and only minimally on the Thunderbolts and Fantastic Four.
It's going to be a challenge for sure, and I hope they pull it off.
As I've already mentioned in other replies, the most likely scenario is that the cast members they didn't announce are minor characters, and since they're minor, they're not worth including in the promotional material. Or maybe two or three surprise characters, like Carol, Monica, and Strange, if we consider the plot threads they left open. And Evans, who is practically a given (but we don't even know if his cameo will be significant or if it's just too expensive to keep him on set).
But beyond that... I don't see anything else.
I’m fine with this being the main cast though. People complain that “we haven’t seen any of them interact” “they haven’t been developed enough for audiences to care” well guess what…this movie will give people exactly that. It’ll be like the first Avengers where we see how characters from different backgrounds interact with each other
Having Strange (and Wong) and America involved feels so crucial. I suppose they could be absent until we hit Battleworld, if we assume that’s not happening until SW, but even so, there’s absolutely gotta be multi-universe travelling happening in DD, in order to bring F4, X-Men and 616 together alongside RDJ Doom. It would seem really silly to me to do that and not bring in the events of MOM/Strange and America Chavez. If anything, I think they should be playing significant roles in both movies (not even necessarily in screentime, but rather in impact and plot necessity).
I mean, it would be absurd for Sam/the Avengers to not utilise America’s powers here, especially if the central plot revolves around the team(s) deliberately trying to travel inter-dimensionally (to help rescue Franklin, maybe?)
Monica we know is hanging in the X-Men universe, alongside alt universe Maria, and to me it makes no sense if they’re both kept offscreen, given Monica is the other character we know to be able to traverse dimensions with their powers (although I’m so sure Reed is going to work out how to do it too)
I also don’t know if, in this cast list, we’re discounting new significant characters/cast. I’m curious to see if they’re going to be able to resist bringing Miles Morales into it (and they really really should for SW…). I also think there’s a decent chance we get Jeffrey Wright/The Watcher involved.
Finally I’m wondering if they’re really going to give up the chance to put in characters who were close to Tony - at minimum, surely Rhodey would be a natural pick to go against him? But maybe we don’t get much of a direct confrontation until SW though.
With that said, I miss Moon Knight.
MCU just got spanked by Demon Slayer. Hell F4 lost to every summer blockbuster. Wasn’t even close blown about by roughly 100 mil bare minimum
Getting to the X-men faster.
BP3 and Dr Strange 3 to go along with Shang chi 2.
Blade & Ghost Rider would have been smarter than Eternals and Thunderbolts.
Kang to actually kill some of the ant family.
Getting to the X-men faster. Disagree
BP3 and Dr Strange 3 to go along with Shang chi 2. Disagree with DS3 because DS2 was bad. Why would DS3 right after be a good idea if DS2 didnt do well?
Blade & Ghost Rider would have been smarter than Eternals and Thunderbolts. Agreed, but doesnt mean they will do well.
Kang to actually kill some of the ant family. Agreed but that wouldn't save the movie.
MCU redditors think that Disney is actively on reddit reading these posts.... our opinions don't matter, will not matter, and will never reach the eyes and ears of the higher ups at Disney who pour money into their product. Everyone needs to stop thinking like anyone here makes a difference....
You and any of us, know ZERO about:
\- Who filmed remotely via Green Screen
\- Who had a stunt double do their body/costume work and will ADR dialog in later
\- Who was brought onto set or location in secrecy for the 6months of filming that already occurred.
\- Who will be brought in (secretly or no secretly) to set or location for re-sjoots or additional shooting that could occur over the next 6months prior to (or even overlapping with) the beginning of shooting for Secret Wars.
It's easy to appreciate that you have an opinion on the matter but please do not come here and state that opinion as fact
Then you've got impact and shortened your cast list to give others more time. I'm definitely in the minority, and I'll definitely be proven wrong and be entertained, BUT, I don't really want X-Men from 15 years ago to be half of the cast and driving force of an Avengers film... **titled after fucking Dr Doom.**
I would be super excited about Doom except that I’m so wary of him being a Tony Stark variant that will just ruin the character for me. I hope he either wears his mask the whole time or is scared beyond recognition like the comics.
I’m not 100% sure I’ll actually even see it in theaters. I may wait until it hits streaming.
Feels like Thor and the X-Men are gonna carry hard on that front. On top of all that, though, it's just such a variety of characters. As much as I liked Thunderbolts, they're not who you need to call against DOOM. I hope everyone gets a chance to do something important. I think of Black widow in Avengers who had an import role even though she wasn't gonna go toe to toe with gods
Anyway, I'm excited, I am. It's just going in with a few grains of salt is all
Thunderbolts aren’t the team you call against doom…but if that’s the avengers team you got in universe, they’ll have to find a way to make them fit in the story (and for all we know they may even fail)
Its gonna be DP&W on steroids.
It feels like the main reaction the Marvel is going for is [simply this](https://media1.tenor.com/m/1Nc6rtScQEUAAAAd/thats-it-yes-thats-it.gif)
And with Carol, she's one of the few characters I feel are missing, but on the other hand, I also think, "Besides wanting to save Monica, what else would she contribute?" So I can understand that they're probably still figuring out how to incorporate her into the story, and they preferred to keep her under wraps rather than announce her with a big fanfare only to cut her out later.
So the stuff going on in Brand New Day may prevent Banner from helping the Avengers.
Meh, chances are Secret Wars is where everyone comes back, Infinity War had a pretty limited cast compared to Endgame, too.
I find it funny that sometimes people complain about there are sooo many characters in this movie, it will be all unfocused........then we get to this and people are like This is it?! No! there must be more characters!
Infinity War had 19 people listed in the main cast, all of them came from very prominent and successful films, most of them more than one. It was hugely reliant on having seen the previous ones, and in many cases the characters were playing cardboard cutouts of themselves.
Here most of the X-Men have hardly been featured for decades, most of the others have been in one film, RDJ's well known but he's playing a completely different guy. Shang Chi had a film 5 years ago, I don't remember anything that happened in it. How do you introduce all of these people to a new audience that might not have watched those films and have it be a satisfying treatment of their characters for the ones who like them?
Unless most of these people just show up at the end for a cameo like all of the guys at the end of Endgame it's going to a mess.
Make new stories with new characters. The MCU is 17 years old this year, but its not like James Bond or Godzilla where you'd get one movie every few years. Its had a run unlike any other with several movies each year. You can't bring all of the characters from the past back with every new teamup.
But it is pretty funny seeing people totally convince themselves that their personal favourite Glup Shitto is going to appear, they just haven't announced it yet lol
Indeed. They're already quite an ensemble. Adding too many could end up not being good. It's already quite balanced.
Phase 4-6 just doesn't seem as cohesive going into this movie as Phase 1-3 felt going into Infinity War & Endgame. Though I am glad we are getting Thor, Ant-Man, Yelena, Loki and Bucky but especially Shang-Chi again, it's been way too many years since we've even seen him, and that's the biggest problem with recent Marvel. They haven't made use of their key assets as often as they should have.
My biggest hope for this movie is for Doom to be the absolute baddest MF around, he really needs to come off as dominating and unstoppable to make his mark as a huge threat.