Which trope applies to Valentina's justice quote from Thunderbolts?

Val made a valid point when she said justice without power is just an opinion. I don't believe might makes right but neither do I believe right makes might either. So would she be "Jerkass Has a Point" or "Strawman Has a Point"?

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N8CCRG2025-09-22 01:28

Ooh, I like this discussion topic!

Looking at the tv tropes pages (warning to those at risk of being sucked into rabbit holes): [Jerkass Has a Point](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JerkassHasAPoint) and [Strawman Has a Point](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StrawmanHasAPoint)

Scrolling down under JHaP, there's this:

>This is an In-Universe Only Trope. For it to be Jerkass Has a Point, the work or characters within the work must acknowledge that the jerkass is right. As I read that, Sam's "He's out of line, but he's right" from TFatWS would be the perfect example of this.

Now, for SHaP, that seems possible if we think the writers a) disagree with premise about power and were trying to show she was wrong but b) actually accidentally showed that her statement about power was correct. I don't really get the feeling they tried to show anything in regards to that statement. And I think there's truth to what she said.

Looking a little further, I think there's an argument to be made that this is a [Villain Has a Point](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainHasAPoint) though again I don't think the other characters satisfy the requirement that they acknowledge it.

JoshTheBard2025-09-22 04:41

I think the Thunderbolts sort of acknowledged that Val was right when they became the New Avengers and agreed to keep working with Val. They more or less all want to do good but with the backing of the government and the brand recognition of the Avengers (or Avengerz) they can do more good than if they had arrested and discredited Val and become free agents.

Obviously they can't agree with a statement they aren't around to hear but they do follow Val's plan in the end.

TelephoneCertain53442025-09-22 20:06

I would say Villain Has a Point

Poku1152025-09-23 05:07

"Might makes right" not a fan of the movie, but it is interesting that this is the only movie that contradicts that statement, being the only villain that could only be beaten through talking.

Cause on every other case weve seen, might does make right. Only the power to fight to hold on to whats precious with their hands, have our heroes managed to overcome the odds time and time again.